Vendor Model 3 Öhlins DFV Coilovers - Engineered by Redwood Motorsports ™

[RedwoodMotors]

how many miles does V3 and Öhlins last on the street?

The Ohlins DFV's are OEM on the Volvo Polestar... there is no specified rebuild interval. I'm hesitant to quote a specific rebuild interval for the Ohlins DFV's as there are so many variables. We've done oil analysis in years past with the Ohlins 1304 Race Oil and found marginal internal wear with street use and 30K miles. Basically if they're not leaking and it's a street car, I would not stress the rebuild interval. If/when they need to be rebuilt, they can be turned around in a week and are in the $500 range.

 

[Clivew]

These are mil-spec hard anodized (both the shock bodies and lock rings). There should be zero corrosion. We've used Ohlins for years and have never had corrosion as an issue, even on salted snow roads. You will want to have the threads clean before you try to move the lock rings and spring perch, however, we've worked with the KW lock rings on other chassis and without cleaning the threads you're just grinding/forcing dirt into the threads. We're definitely not fans of the plastic lock rings and spring perches, but as with all things, that's obviously a personal preference.

I’ve run Ohlins DFV for years on my daily driver, here in the UK through our climate, with salt on the roads in the winter and the bodies on the Ohlins definitely corrode! It’s not an issue as it’s only cosmetic and not structural, but you need to be aware of it as it can make moving the spring perch difficult. I personally don’t think this is an issue, as once the ride height is set correctly, you’re not going to want to move it again.

The spring perches on the KW are Inox stainless steel coated with a polymide composite to stop any possible corrosion. Saying they are ‘plastic’ is doing them a disservice by insinuation they are cheap and weak.
Cleaning the shock body threads above and below the spring perch is standard practice, otherwise you’re going to gall the thread. I’ve never had a problem with the KW spring perches. I’ve run KW V3 on daily road cars with zero issues with corrosion after years. They are a high quality suspension which are also fitted as OEM to some cars, and are fully TUV approved.

 

[Clivew]

The Ohlins DFV's are OEM on the Volvo Polestar... there is no specified rebuild interval. I'm hesitant to quote a specific rebuild interval for the Ohlins DFV's as there are so many variables. We've done oil analysis in years past with the Ohlins 1304 Race Oil and found marginal internal wear with street use and 30K miles. Basically if they're not leaking and it's a street car, I would not stress the rebuild interval. If/when they need to be rebuilt, they can be turned around in a week and are in the $500 range.

The Ohlins DFV are also OEM on some Renaultsport Megane RS models. The KW V3 are OEM on the BMW Alpina B3 GT3.

I used Ohlins DFV for over 60k miles without any issues at all, and with no perceivable degradation in damping performance. I was so dialled into the car, if someone had changed a damper by one click, I would know. Once set, I didn’t have to adjust them again.

 

[mcbarnet007]

@RedwoodMotors what's your background in suspension design? What kind of qualification has been done and on which Model 3? Any video of track test?

 

[Needsdecaf]

@RedwoodMotors thanks for the detailed answers. Here's what I want to understand, if you can help me:

I have two complaints with the Model 3, suspension, one big one small.

The small: at high speeds (over 75-80) the car is not all that planted. Not terrible, but having a Cayenne and a 911 in the garage does tend to spoil one a little bit when it comes to high speed stability. Does this manifest itself often? No, but I drive home every day on a road with a 75 MPH limit, 80 plus cruising speed, so a pass is sometimes done at 90. And up there, I start to get a little white-knuckled. Will this suspension help?

My BIG issue: the "hopping" ride. To me, the Model 3 (and I've seen other Teslas doing it as well) exhibits poor fore / aft damping design, which results in the car "pogo-ing" over bumps. This doesn't happen so much on asphalt roads, but it happens very often on our concrete highways in Houston. You can see the effect pretty easily on the video I posted below. Watch how the cars oscillate up and down in the frame as the camera is bounced back and forth vertically. It's really easy to see with the video at 1/2 speed or double speed. This is also very noticeable to me while driving.

Can these dampers solve this?

Thank you.

 

[Murattukaalai]

MPP comforts does this better from what I read so far in their thread

 

[Lunares]

How do Ohlin DFV compare with something like MCS 1WNR or 2WNR?

 

[edstewbob]

Could the Ohlin DFV's reduce road noise due to their damping ability on rough road surfaces?

 

[SD_Engnr]

@RedwoodMotors what's your background in suspension design? What kind of qualification has been done and on which Model 3? Any video of track test?

I asked the same, along with other questions, but no response.

 

[RedwoodMotors]

Hey guys thank you for all the orders, we are currently up to 8 of the 20 kits we have allocated for the first production run!

@RedwoodMotors thanks for the detailed answers. Here's what I want to understand, if you can help me:

I have two complaints with the Model 3, suspension, one big one small.

The small: at high speeds (over 75-80) the car is not all that planted. Not terrible, but having a Cayenne and a 911 in the garage does tend to spoil one a little bit when it comes to high speed stability. Does this manifest itself often? No, but I drive home every day on a road with a 75 MPH limit, 80 plus cruising speed, so a pass is sometimes done at 90. And up there, I start to get a little white-knuckled. Will this suspension help?

My BIG issue: the "hopping" ride. To me, the Model 3 (and I've seen other Teslas doing it as well) exhibits poor fore / aft damping design, which results in the car "pogo-ing" over bumps. This doesn't happen so much on asphalt roads, but it happens very often on our concrete highways in Houston. You can see the effect pretty easily on the video I posted below. Watch how the cars oscillate up and down in the frame as the camera is bounced back and forth vertically. It's really easy to see with the video at 1/2 speed or double speed. This is also very noticeable to me while driving.

Can these dampers solve this?

Thank you.

Absolutely, and the hopping ride is what we experienced as well when we were benchmarking the OE suspension. This seems to be due to a number of things, valving, spring rate, and the bump stop contact point. The issue is exacerbated mid corner when the suspension is loaded up... where a mid-corner bump seems to severely upset the rear of the Model 3 to the point where it will physically lift the rear (after hitting the bump stop) and breaking rear traction... a very scary sitiation. We have remedied this bad behavior on our Ohlins suspension setup, as well as a significantly improved ride quality and roll control. Best of both worlds!

 

[RedwoodMotors]

@RedwoodMotors what's your background in suspension design? What kind of qualification has been done and on which Model 3? Any video of track test?

I asked the same, along with other questions, but no response.

Sorry for the slow response time everyone... we've got a TON going on getting everything set up, as well as a massive influx of messages and questions, through various channels (facebook, instagram, forum PM's, emails, etc.) It's been a bit overwhelming but we do appreciate everyone's patience and messages/questions. Please pardon the dust as we get settled, but we will get back to everyone's questions!

Also thank you to everyone who has placed pre-orders, we currently have 8 of our 20 allocated sets from the first production run pre-sold and quite a few other customers pending as well.

As far as our background... our parent company HMS-Distribution has been in business for 12 years, and we've been an Ohlins development partner for nearly the last 10 years. As a leading Ohlins development partner, and produce the FPSpec Ohlins DFV's for MiataSpeed, SakeBomb Garage, and a number of other highly competitive companies. We've produced custom Ohlins kits for the NSX, all years Miatas, Supra, RX7, RX8, S2000, and others. We've got a long-standing reputation and a combined 30 years of experience in suspension engineering design and race performance within the company. The FPSpec Ohlins suspension line-up holds many first place wins in all series of motorsports from SCCA STR Autocross, various SCCA and NASA road course series, Targa Tasmania Tarmac Rally, and the UK Harwood Speed Hill Climb, Spirits of the UK Series, and others.

We've been building custom Ohlins suspension for nearly 10 years now, and have a long-standing history in motorsports engineering and design, with a focus on handling and braking engineering. We are located in Fremont California (a block away from the Tesla Factory!).

We're fortunate to be so close to quite a few great tracks here in Northern California and frequent Laguna Seca, Sonoma, and Thunderhill East and West for testing and track days. Since most of our testing is data-driven with damper pots and data we haven't really focused on pictures/videos. In the future now that our design phase is complete, we'll try to do a better job of grabbing photos and videos for show, but that's never really been the focus for development days. I'm sure we'll have quite a few videos from all you fine folks once this first production run ships!

 

[beastmode13]

We've been building custom Ohlins suspension for nearly 10 years now, and have a long-standing history in motorsports engineering and design, with a focus on handling and braking engineering. We are located in Fremont California (a block away from the Tesla Factory!).

So we can tour your facility as part of the Tesla factory tour? Maybe host a Coffee and Tesla?

 

[Orwell]

Do you have the weight of this full setup for dual motor compared to stock?

 

[Davidss2]

As far as our background... our parent company HMS-Distribution has been in business for 12 years, and we've been an Ohlins development partner for nearly the last 10 years. As a leading Ohlins development partner, and produce the FPSpec Ohlins DFV's for MiataSpeed, SakeBomb Garage, and a number of other highly competitive companies. We've produced custom Ohlins kits for the NSX, all years Miatas, Supra, RX7, RX8, S2000, and others. We've got a long-standing reputation and a combined 30 years of experience in suspension engineering design and race performance within the company. The FPSpec Ohlins suspension line-up holds many first place wins in all series of motorsports from SCCA STR Autocross, various SCCA and NASA road course series, Targa Tasmania Tarmac Rally, and the UK Harwood Speed Hill Climb, Spirits of the UK Series, and others.

We've been building custom Ohlins suspension for nearly 10 years now, and have a long-standing history in motorsports engineering and design, with a focus on handling and braking engineering. We are located in Fremont California (a block away from the Tesla Factory!).

We're fortunate to be so close to quite a few great tracks here in Northern California and frequent Laguna Seca, Sonoma, and Thunderhill East and West for testing and track days. Since most of our testing is data-driven with damper pots and data we haven't really focused on pictures/videos. In the future now that our design phase is complete, we'll try to do a better job of grabbing photos and videos for show, but that's never really been the focus for development days. I'm sure we'll have quite a few videos from all you fine folks once this first production run ships!

This is a VERY "political" answer.

So you have tested these coilovers at Laguna Seca, Sonoma, and Thunderhill? Or not?

Are these coilovers even on a car yet? Can you walk outside your shop and take a pic of the car with the coilovers on it? Can you jack it up and take a pic of what the coilovers look like installed (with the shock pots on them obviously)?

You claim to have a long standing reputation in "race performance"? Can you expound on that a bit?

Who is actually designing the valving for these shocks? You or ohlins?

Like I said your answer is really political. If you are just a distributor who is working with other companies to develop parts for the tesla that is totally fine. The tesla community obviously has demand for more aftermarket support. But dancing around and making it seem like you are something that you are not is silly. I would be totally happy to hear that ohlins is building and designing the shocks.

 

[kbecks13]

So you have tested these coilovers at Laguna Seca, Sonoma, and Thunderhill? Or not?

Are these coilovers even on a car yet? Can you walk outside your shop and take a pic of the car with the coilovers on it? Can you jack it up and take a pic of what the coilovers look like installed (with the shock pots on them obviously)?

You claim to have a long standing reputation in "race performance"? Can you expound on that a bit?

Who is actually designing the valving for these shocks? You or ohlins?

Like I said your answer is really political. If you are just a distributor who is working with other companies to develop parts for the tesla that is totally fine. The tesla community obviously has demand for more aftermarket support. But dancing around and making it seem like you are something that you are not is silly. I would be totally happy to hear that ohlins is building and designing the shocks.

To expound/clarify, i think the community would appreciate answers to questions like this:

1. Do you own a car that is used for testing or borrowed/rented one?
   1. If the latter, how long have the coilovers been run on the car in terms of time/miles?
2. Who designed the valving and how was this general process undertaken? Certainly understand proprietary info and not asking for legit shock dyno plots, just general philosophy for how these were developed.
3. There are a ton of members from this forum up in your area, could a few people potentially stop by for test rides? This would give a ton of credibility to your product IMO

 

[RedwoodMotors]

MPP comforts does this better from what I read so far in their thread

Not necessarily, the Dual Flow Valve technology has the ability to *reduce* damping pressure based on damper shaft speed (Ohlins patented tech). Since the DFV has a wide range of valving adjustments, you can adjust them based on the driving conditions required (street or performance use) and the ultra-low-hysteresis from the Ohlins means they can damp even the smallest bumps (fractions of millimeters at the shock) which lesser shocks are not capable of.

How do Ohlin DFV compare with something like MCS 1WNR or 2WNR?

We haven't benchmarked those shocks, so I can't comment. MCS are good shocks for sure, but again (not to beat a dead horse) the Ohlins magic is really in the patented DFV which is what sets it apart as a great suspension when the goal is to blend track and street use (in fact we have not seen another shock as well adept at being such a swiss army knife as the Ohlins). If there was a better shock for this application we'd use those shock bodies to build our kits around... AST, Penske, Moton, etc.

We just feel the Ohlins DFV is the best out there. Ohlins (not DFV's but their higher tier lines) are used on Hypercars such as Koenigsegg and Pagani

Could the Ohlin DFV's reduce road noise due to their damping ability on rough road surfaces?

To some extent yes, to some extent no. I would say the road nose is a bit lower due to the higher quality dampers and being able to damp smaller bumps, but we've also got a couple of points of contact that eliminate some OEM soft bushings. That said, the Ohlins dampers do a better job of attenuating bumps than the standard shocks and I would rate the ride quality and NVH as equal or better than the stock setup for daily street driving.

 

[RedwoodMotors]

So we can tour your facility as part of the Tesla factory tour? Maybe host a Coffee and Tesla?

If you exit the factory onto Industrial and head straight, were immediately around the corner. Once things are a bit more settled, we'd love to host a Tesla meet, and have a decently sized lot to host in. Let us know if you guys want to put something together, it would be a great time to meet with the local Tesla community!

Do you have the weight of this full setup for dual motor compared to stock?

Yes sir! Definitely a good weight-savings over stock!

 

[RedwoodMotors]

Thanks for all the questions, guys. Doing our best to reply to everyone on this rainy day in California!

To expound/clarify, i think the community would appreciate answers to questions like this:

1. Do you own a car that is used for testing or borrowed/rented one?
   1. If the latter, how long have the coilovers been run on the car in terms of time/miles?
2. Who designed the valving and how was this general process undertaken? Certainly understand proprietary info and not asking for legit shock dyno plots, just general philosophy for how these were developed.
3. There are a ton of members from this forum up in your area, could a few people potentially stop by for test rides? This would give a ton of credibility to your product IMO

Hi @kbecks13 to answer your questions:

1. Yes, we own multiple Model 3 development vehicles. Right now we have the Redwood DFV kits on our white Dual Motor Model 3, as well as our blue RWD Long-Range 3. Combined these cars have logged over 15,000 miles running the suspension so far over the last year as we've been developing them.

2. Please forgive the long-winded answer:

We designed custom valving curves in conjunction with Ohlins as an iterative process over the course of the last year. We have been creating custom designed Ohlins suspension kits in partnership with Ohlins for a number of years through our parent company HMS Distribution, as we mentioned in our post yesterday.

There are certain applications like the Acura NSX, Toyota Supra (Mk4), and Model 3, which Ohlins does not produce suspension kits for. We are one of a few Ohlins development partners which allows us the capability of producing customized kits for these chassis and others. Additionally, while Ohlins offers standard DFV kits for applications like the RX-7, S2000, and Miata platforms (which we do offer), we also have developed our own "FPSpec" suspension kits for these chassis utilizing custom length Ohlins shock bodies and Ohlins 1304 race oil. We then design custom valving curves, custom floating top hats, lower mounts, Swift main & helper springs, and so on. This gives us the ability to create specifically tailored suspension kits for a number of different customers based on their specific needs/preferences from grand touring to competitive race use.

All of our custom designed suspension kits start from the ground up on a clean sheet of paper. We begin by benchmarking the OEM suspension on our spring & shock dynos and measuring all relevant aspects of the chassis and suspension geometry to create detailed CAD models and "suspension calculator" for each individual chassis. From this we calculate the optimal shock lengths per spring rate, design custom springs with Swift, and provide a baseline to create the optimal damping curve with Ohlins. Further refinement comes from street and track testing, data from damper pots, and general heuristics to reach what we feel is an optimal balance for the chassis.

Our customers have been extremely happy with our range of kits, using them for both street and competition use. For example, our Miata Ohlins DFV FPSpec kit took home a national championship in SCCA STR:
Ian Stewart / SakeBomb Garage ND MX-5 Takes the SCCA STR Solo National Championship!
First Set of SCCA Solo National Champions Crowned – Mazda Motorsports

3. We'd be happy to host anyone at the shop! Our new Redwood facility is in the same complex as our sister shops, and a stone's throw from the front door of the Tesla plant in Fremont. We're still doing a bit of a build out of the Redwood facility as we ramp up, but as mentioned in our last post it would be great to have everyone over for some coffees (and test rides!).

We'll announce any official meetings here on the forum and on our social media, but if anyone wants to come by individually please reach out via email to schedule: [email protected]

This is a VERY "political" answer.

So you have tested these coilovers at Laguna Seca, Sonoma, and Thunderhill? Or not?

Are these coilovers even on a car yet? Can you walk outside your shop and take a pic of the car with the coilovers on it? Can you jack it up and take a pic of what the coilovers look like installed (with the shock pots on them obviously)?

You claim to have a long standing reputation in "race performance"? Can you expound on that a bit?

Who is actually designing the valving for these shocks? You or ohlins?

Like I said your answer is really political. If you are just a distributor who is working with other companies to develop parts for the tesla that is totally fine. The tesla community obviously has demand for more aftermarket support. But dancing around and making it seem like you are something that you are not is silly. I would be totally happy to hear that ohlins is building and designing the shocks.

Hi @Davidss2, appreciate the comments and questions. Hopefully we answered a number of your questions above in our reply to @kbecks13. A few additional notes:

- Yes these suspension kits have been on the car at both Laguna Seca and Thunderhill West as part of the development process for spring rates and damping curves. We weren't out there to set lap times, but specifically for gathering data on and off over the course of the last year.

- Yes, these are on two of our cars at the moment. We would walk out and take a picture of the car in the driveway, but it's raining quite hard at the moment here in California. We'll snap some pictures this coming Monday.

- As for the race performance question, please see some of the references to the links above in our previous replies. As noted a number of our customers regularly race in various SCCA and NASA events, and we have international customers who have participated successfully in events like the Targa Tasmania Tarmac Rally, UK Hardwood Speed Hill Climb, etc.

- We're not sure exactly what you mean by political, but we've tried to answer as professionally as possible. For clarity, we work directly with Ohlins to develop our custom DFV kits, however they are engineered, manufactured, and assembled by us in California. Our custom springs are manufactured by Swift in Japan to our specs. Ohlins provides us with the threaded shock bodies, and they complete all of the internal shock assembly and valving to our custom specifications. The rest of the components are designed, tested, and manufactured by us, and the entire suspension kit is then assembled by hand in our facility in Fremont.

Wanted to add some photos for reference!

 

[nojtheta]

Thanks for all the questions, guys. Doing our best to reply to everyone on this rainy day in California!

(snip)
....

Thanks for all the information and answers so far, Redwood.

A few more questions:

(1) Please comment more on the removal of OEM soft rubber bushings you mentioned for the Ohlins install? Why is that required and what is the benefit? Can you quantify any tradeoff in NVH for street use?

(2) With the Ohlins installed, are control arms for camber/toe adjustment required to get a "good" neutral alignment for street/spirited road use at stock ride height? Would they be required for a "good" alignment if the car is lowered one inch?

(3) Can you comment on pairing of this Ohlins kit with stiffer/non-OEM sway bars for street or mild/moderate track use?

(4) Is the install "plug and play" replacement of the OEM setup? Are there any non-OEM mounting points or modifications required for the install?

(5) What are the details of the "limited liftetime" warranty? Is the warranty voided with track (HPDE) use?

 

[nojtheta]

Did I kill the thread @RedwoodMotors? Lol. Looking forward to more info.