-
Want to remove ads? Register an account and login to see fewer ads, and become a Supporting Member to remove almost all ads.
Model 3 and S failed automatic braking system stress test
- Thread starter kingbugca
- Start date
That's correct. I admit I have no idea why the Tesla design team has decided that their version of L2 means that the car will drive right into a concrete wall, by design. Regardless, the Highway Safety Institute is extremely influential with the regulators, and it will be interesting to see how Elon responds.
I agree, this is definitely an issue. Many do not know the limitations of these systems.
SSonnentag
埃隆•馬斯克
I didn't even know that TACC-OFF was an option. I guess I'm going to have to go through my settings again.
Mods: you might want to combine the two threads on this subject
Auto Braking not working! Be carful...
Auto Braking not working! Be carful...
ℬête Noire
Active Member
It's FUD because it's doing a serious recolouring of the underlying report. ((Thank you to the people that linked that BTW, so I don't give BI the satisfaction of clicks.))
Alternative Headline: "Two Year Old Model S edges out Brand New Volvo"
ℬête Noire
Active Member
You can really see that in the data table, hills are/were the bane of EAP times past.
Or more simply, "Critical Tesla news = FUD!"
It's not being critical that makes it FUD, it's the fact that they cherry picked an erroneous part of the test for the headline that makes it FUD.
You can argue that Tesla's emergency braking should avoid a collision, it probably should. But the fact is it's working as described since it isn't supposed to avoid a collision, it's supposed to lower the collision speed when one is unavoidable. When using TACC, the feature that's supposed to handle accel and braking, it worked fine.
There's enough real issues with Teslas (and any other car for that matter), that there shouldn't be a need to manufacture fake ones.
IIHS was doing these tests to evaluate autonomy. The real story here should be that Tesla, Model 3 in particular, performed well ahead of the other cars when it comes to the car driving itself (adaptive cruise control & active lane keeping). Shows you how advanced Tesla's autopilot system is, and to know a new version is coming within a month as well.
To me it seems clear that the 25mph slowdown and the phantom braking are connected. Teslas clearly have a problem with false positives that cause them to brake unnecessarily (I've personally experienced this a few times in my Model 3). If the computer brought them to a full stop every time it saw a shadow, we'd have cars stopping on the highway - obviously that's very dangerous. I'd much rather have the car reduce speed by 25mph (which provides the driver with warning and allows him/her to continue braking) given those constraints and I suspect Tesla came to the same conclusion when weighing the tradeoffs. It also seems fairly clear that if Tesla's sensing of objects in front of it was perfectly accurate (high sensitivity AND specificity, I.e., minimal false negatives AND false positives), the cars would bring themselves to a full stop. I'm sure Tesla's working on resolving this. Given the other cars aren't using particularly different hardware, there doesn't seem to be any reason that Tesla couldn't improve on this with a software update.
BTW while the title is clickbait, this isn't FUD. I for one am looking forward to mass market adoption of the Model 3 so that more owners aren't shareholders and are purely incentivized to advocate for fixing issues with their cars.
TLDR: AEB is limited to 25mph b/c of the phantom braking issue. Tesla will likely resolve this gradually via OTA updates.
BTW while the title is clickbait, this isn't FUD. I for one am looking forward to mass market adoption of the Model 3 so that more owners aren't shareholders and are purely incentivized to advocate for fixing issues with their cars.
TLDR: AEB is limited to 25mph b/c of the phantom braking issue. Tesla will likely resolve this gradually via OTA updates.
AEB has been limited to a 25mph decrease long before phantom braking issues showed up.
There's absolutely no reason to implement it this way unless the computer has uncertainty about whether there is an object in front of you.
Glamisduner
Active Member
I agree, auto braking on the tesla without EAP was never designed to come to a complete stop at high speeds (it's not a feature the car has), it is just to reduce the impact in an inevitable crash. It's a known fact so BI is just spreading FUD.
I mean that's like saying the cruise control works terribly on cars without cruise control... Why would they expect the system to work outside of specified parameters?
Headline is that tesla is worst, but in fact it also the best when you add the feature (EAP) that handles this. This is why it is spreading FUD, it makes it sound like the car with the most automated driving experience is the worst at auto braking, but that's not the case, as they were testing a non EAP vehicle.
Thanks BI, now go home.
Last edited:
diamond.g
Active Member
If I understood the article correctly TACC was causing the braking events not AEB.
It is the same sensor set that sees these shadows or real cars. But my guess is, TACC is more cautious like mentioned in IIHS review and slowing down much before, where as AEB waits for last moment before kicking in, and by that time mostly sensor gets more data to indicate there is no obstruction in case of shadows. May be Tesla is still not comfortable with sensor data to be completely trust worthy to apply full braking at late stage with AEB.
chronopc
Active Member
AEB works as intended. BI translation: major flaw found in Teslas.
clostridium
Member
I’m super curious why people disliked this post.
Do you disagree about his description of what AEB is for? Because he was correct based on every definition I’ve found in web searches.
Are you disagreeing with the statement that only the Tesla’s failed in this test? Because that’s true.
Or are you disagreeing with the statement that the Tesla’s are having trouble detecting stationary objects? Because that’s true.
Did I miss something else in that post that was worthy of dislike?
I am seeing many Fan boys getting heartache for criticizing Tesla even for right reasons. I hope Fan boys get out of their shell and be reasonable/rationale.
I myself owner and fan of Tesla, but that does not mean I would be blind to the Tesla Faults.
In this specific case, I really like that Tesla, esp my model 3 maintained the steering to keep within the lines, and that mirrors my experience where lines are clearly laid out (without merges).
Also, at the same time, I have first hand experience of Phantom braking several times. I can consistently reproduce this issue. First time it happen on highway at 80MPH because of overpass and that was scary and jarring. Now when it starts braking I press throttle to counter that.
Another issue is AEB. As we have seen enough instances where Tesla did not apply brakes/ or did not apply fully causing accidents. So this is one of those important features I hope AEB is improved soon and take care of the issue. I did not want to test this, and fortunately I have not ran into situation like this. IMHO, it is as critical as Belts, airbags, ABS etc to reliably work.
Hope, Tesla takes care of both of those issues soon and also gets the promised EAP features like switching highways on EAP and taking right exit sooner.
I myself owner and fan of Tesla, but that does not mean I would be blind to the Tesla Faults.
In this specific case, I really like that Tesla, esp my model 3 maintained the steering to keep within the lines, and that mirrors my experience where lines are clearly laid out (without merges).
Also, at the same time, I have first hand experience of Phantom braking several times. I can consistently reproduce this issue. First time it happen on highway at 80MPH because of overpass and that was scary and jarring. Now when it starts braking I press throttle to counter that.
Another issue is AEB. As we have seen enough instances where Tesla did not apply brakes/ or did not apply fully causing accidents. So this is one of those important features I hope AEB is improved soon and take care of the issue. I did not want to test this, and fortunately I have not ran into situation like this. IMHO, it is as critical as Belts, airbags, ABS etc to reliably work.
Hope, Tesla takes care of both of those issues soon and also gets the promised EAP features like switching highways on EAP and taking right exit sooner.
