Model 3 AWD extended vs. performance

[Knightshade]

Performance Model - extra costs that Tesla might expect ??

- higher warranty claims as car is driven harder
- and batteries charged higher on average? expect higher warranty claims against batteries?

So Tesla picking better motors would seem a logical thing to do.

Thing is we've no idea if they're "better" like "this one exceeds specs by 1% it goes in an AWD, this one by 2% it goes in a P" or "this one exceeds by 100% it goes in a P!".... given modern MFG tolerances it's probably not the second one though.

- top speed (we can see the spec for this, right?)

Yup...only comes with the additional $5000 upgrade to the P- it's purely software.

- contactors and wires enlarged (which I think they are, right?)

No?

At least nobody has shown any evidence of it, nor any claim of it from Tesla.

- better brakes, wheels and tires

On the $5000 upgrade package only... the regular P comes with the same brakes, wheels, and tires as the AWD or RWD do.

And "better" is a bit subjective... for a street car the $5000 package gives you worse brakes, since they do nothing useful and will likely cost more when it's time to replace anything.

Likewise the 20" wheels and low profile tires are probably worse for dealing with potholes than if you'd gotten the 18s and just spent 1k instead of 5k to put the same tires in the right size on.

- different suspension/settings/springs - i.e. changes/options adds to Tesla costs.

These don't appear to exist though.

The one video we've seen under a P shows exactly the same springs and shocks as a RWD car.

The sway bars are different- but we don't know if that's for all dual motor cars or just the P.

Track mode will likely be exclusive to the P...but that's again purely software.

 

[phtp]

Software allowing higher inverter power and energy.

AWD Hardware apparently has a smaller inverter. Won't know until someone breaks it down.

 

[Knightshade]

AWD Hardware apparently has a smaller inverter.

There remains literally 0 evidence of this at a hardware level despite people continuing to repeat it for some reason.

And it's directly contradicted by Elons own tweet stating the drive units (which include the inverter) are lot sorted.

Something that would be impossible if the physical parts inside were different parts.

 

[Brando]

Thing is we've no idea if they're "better" like "this one exceeds specs by 1% it goes in an AWD, this one by 2% it goes in a P" or "this one exceeds by 100% it goes in a P!".... given modern MFG tolerances it's probably not the second one though.



Yup...only comes with the additional $5000 upgrade to the P- it's purely software.



No?

At least nobody has shown any evidence of it, nor any claim of it from Tesla.




On the $5000 upgrade package only... the regular P comes with the same brakes, wheels, and tires as the AWD or RWD do.

And "better" is a bit subjective... for a street car the $5000 package gives you worse brakes, since they do nothing useful and will likely cost more when it's time to replace anything.

Likewise the 20" wheels and low profile tires are probably worse for dealing with potholes than if you'd gotten the 18s and just spent 1k instead of 5k to put the same tires in the right size on.



These don't appear to exist though.

The one video we've seen under a P shows exactly the same springs and shocks as a RWD car.

The sway bars are different- but we don't know if that's for all dual motor cars or just the P.

Track mode will likely be exclusive to the P...but that's again purely software.

I'd guess you're not buying one. good for you
None of those things matter to me and I can find better things to buy or not. So I agree.
Gee, why aren't all customers the same?? Then we could just build one car for all.

 

[Perry]

Yeah, I'm having a hard time figuring out exactly what the difference is. I'm guessing it's just software limited if there's no real hardware difference. Honestly, the AWD extended range is pretty quick as it is... a second faster 0-60 is fun, but I don't know if it's $11k fun.... Maybe they'll optimize a little in the future and make it a bit quicker with a software update like they did with the S.

You will also get track mode when its out (for performance model only) so you can adjust all kinds of preferences like disable skid control so you can drift and disable some other safety systems that are preventing the car from accelerating at its full potential of the corners on the track. If you are a performance enthusiast and like sports cars, you have to have this.

 

[phtp]

There remains literally 0 evidence of this at a hardware level despite people continuing to repeat it for some reason.

And it's directly contradicted by Elons own tweet stating the drive units (which include the inverter) are lot sorted.

Something that would be impossible if the physical parts inside were different parts.

People are assuming that because of the rating.

 

[Knightshade]

People are assuming that because of the rating.

Which is pretty goofy given we know it's physically the same drive unit.

(and the fact those EPA ratings makes no sense in the context of the actual performance numbers on the cars as shown on tracks, dynos, etc...according to those EPA #s there's only a 30 hp difference between AWD and P)

 

[Perry]

Agreed! For those that know this area, on Saturday I was the first car at a stoplight which feeds 3 lanes of traffic directly into the 55N freeway in Costa Mesa (17th street) with my brother sitting shotgun. I was in the leftmost lane. I told him to put his head back on the headrest. When the light turned green I floored it. To my surprise there was a speed bike two lanes over on my right who also took off (didn’t see him because of the van in the middle lane). Needless to say, my P3+ left him in the dust. So much so the bike gave up and backed off. I eventually slowed down and the bike finally caught up. When he got next to me he gave me a “thumbs up” and head nod.

This may be the most expensive car I will ever purchase which is why I paid the $11K for the 1 second faster 0-60 and 155 top end speed. No regrets!

Yes I agree. One second seems like nothing but the closer you are to 0 the more significant that second becomes. The AWD is already closer to 0 than most cars with a 4.5 sec 0-60 so another second off that is huge in the way it will feel. In the ICE car world the difference in price from a car that does 4.5 to one that does 3.5 is way higher than $11,000. Just look at the cars than can do 0-60 in 3.5 seconds and most are exotic cars a lot more expensive than the P3D.

 

[Knightshade]

I'd guess you're not buying one. good for you
None of those things matter to me and I can find better things to buy or not. So I agree.
Gee, why aren't all customers the same?? Then we could just build one car for all.

That's the great news for Tesla shareholders.... they did just build one car, then changed performance in software

(ok, slight joke there obviously... the RWD also has one of the motors left out... and the P+ does get a brake swap, the already-sold-by-themselves 20" wheel package included, shiny pedals, and maybe, someday, a spoiler)

 

[Perry]

I wish it was only $11k difference but you have to also add another $5k to get the performance brakes and wheels. The brakes seem critical if you are really going to drive it like a performance car. I my mind the performance upgrade is $16k, not $11k. Adding in tax in CA which adds close to another $1500.

Are most folks ordering the performance version w/o the performance upgrade?

View attachment 329526

Ordered mine without the performance upgrade since you can get a lot better aftermarket. Let's look at what you get for the $5000:
- 20" heavy cast wheels - I rather go something like 19" Titan 7 Forged wheels that are way lighter
- slightly larger brake rotors that are not as light and large as these MPP Page Mill 365mm Big Brake Kit
- supposedly larger calipers - track tests have shown that these are not needed since the problem with Model 3's brakes is heat dissipation which can be resolved with larger rotors, not the calipers which are fine as is
- 10 mph more top speed - where are you going to use that?
- metal pedals - you can get those on Amazon for $30
- carbon fiber rear spoiler - pointless for performance and is just for looks

For $5000, you can get lighter stronger forged wheels with larger, lighter, and better brake rotors making your car more performant than Tesla's so called performance upgrade.

 

[phtp]

Which is pretty goofy given we know it's physically the same drive unit.

(and the fact those EPA ratings makes no sense in the context of the actual performance numbers on the cars as shown on tracks, dynos, etc...according to those EPA #s there's only a 30 hp difference between AWD and P)

I hope so because I order AWD.

 

[mike123abc]

Given the production volumes it would make sense for Tesla to use the same hardware. To manufacture and validate a "lower performance" rear motor for just the AWD model would probably cost more (not to mention the time factor) than to simply limit power output in software.

They claim to bin the motors and do more burn in testing for validation. Essentially they are warranting the extra performance will not damage their product.

I also suspect they are software limiting the P version to make sure it does not impact the model S. They need to keep selling the higher margin S vehicles.

 

[rdlink]

100% agree on the brakes. (unnecessary for street driving) You could argue on the tires.... stickier (summer) tires will help your performance but they also have some downsides too. (the 20" rims are more prone to pothole damage and summer tires can have issues in cold climate areas) but that varies depending on your location. More options is always better so everyone can do what they want.

Agreed. If I were to change my configuration from standard AWD to Performance I would forego the performance upgrade package. Don't want the spoiler or the badge. The 20" wheels would kill range. The performance brakes are a waste for most street driving. I can paint my own calipers for under $100. I plan on lowering my car aftermarket for less than $800.

FWIW, after test driving the Performance I have decided to keep my AWD order. Not worth it for that extra second of 0-60, IMO. If money were no object I'd probably do it. But it is.

 

[Daniel in SD]

Which is pretty goofy given we know it's physically the same drive unit.

(and the fact those EPA ratings makes no sense in the context of the actual performance numbers on the cars as shown on tracks, dynos, etc...according to those EPA #s there's only a 30 hp difference between AWD and P)

1/4 mile trap speed is nearly identical between AWD and P. They DO produce nearly the same amount of power after 60mph (could be lower) and that’s where the peak horsepower is. The quarter mile times are different by 1 second and the 0-60 times are different by 1 second so all the additional power is at low speeds (useless for track driving BTW).

 

[electracity]

AWD Hardware apparently has a smaller inverter. Won't know until someone breaks it down.

Could be a somewhat bigger inverter, but that doesn't seem like a Musk thing to do.

 

[ℬête Noire]

I also suspect they are software limiting the P version to make sure it does not impact the model S. They need to keep selling the higher margin S vehicles.

This part I'm unconvinced of for two reasons:
1) The sub 3.5s 0-60 time squares with best estimates of what 5C coming out of the LR battery should look like. Of course it is "software limited", as with any EV, but it's to protect the battery from damage rather than an arbitrary, non-physical limit.
2) The Performance Model 3, although lower per unit revenue, likely a % margin comparable to at least the mid-range Model S. That's why they were willing to offer the lifetime free charging on it.

 

[Knightshade]

1/4 mile trap speed is nearly identical between AWD and P. They DO produce nearly the same amount of power after 60mph (could be lower) and that’s where the peak horsepower is. The quarter mile times are different by 1 second and the 0-60 times are different by 1 second so all the additional power is at low speeds (useless for track driving BTW).

That kind of reinforces the fact they have the same drive units and they're just artificially limiting the AWDs low end acceleration in comparison to the P.

(that and we know the motors are the same since the VIN letter is the same)

 

[boiler81]

This part I'm unconvinced of for two reasons:
1) The sub 3.5s 0-60 time squares with best estimates of what 5C coming out of the LR battery should look like. Of course it is "software limited", as with any EV, but it's to protect the battery from damage rather than an arbitrary, non-physical limit.

If this is true, how can they uncork the 3P when Elon comes thru with "Ludicrous mode"?

 

[ℬête Noire]

If this is true, how can they uncork the 3P when Elon comes thru with "Ludicrous mode"?

They are at the "we are confident we can [safely] do this much" limit. They need field data, and extended internal testing, from production vehicles to figure out how much further they can push it w/o breaking the bank on battery warranty claims.

 

[Daniel in SD]

If this is true, how can they uncork the 3P when Elon comes thru with "Ludicrous mode"?

Power = Torque * RPM
They could increase the torque at low RPM without increasing the power draw from the battery.