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Model 3 Canada

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But it is another piece of evidence in the over-promise and under-deliver category. Like a Service Centre in Ottawa. Like 18 new SuperChargers in Ontario in 2017, etc.

The other thing of note is that year over year increases in Model S/X sales is rather modest - I think it was 4.5%. Does that mean that the market for these cars is now saturated?


The market for the Models S & X is certainly not saturated here in Ontario...Lawrence & Oakville stores are going nuts with deliveries...a new member in our club has had his car for a week...there were 20 deliveries total that day at Lawrence.
 
What I mean by saturated is more that the growth has moderated to roughly the growth of the overall auto market. But looking at FleetCarma the total EV sales in Canada still seem to be growing quickly. Q2 saw roughly 390 of each Model X and S sold in Canada - about half in ON. Q3 numbers should be out soon.
 
So... with the EPA release notice being found today, I hunted for the Regenerative Braking System (RGB) details. My suspicions were correct, my hopes are dashed. Looks like I'll be forced to go AWD. I'll spare you my usual rant about rear-axle-only regen.

Lots of cool details!
https://www3.epa.gov/otaq/datafiles/FOI_HTSLV00.0L13_APPIPT1.PDF

08.07 Description of RGB
... Because this is a rear wheel drive vehicle, the RGB system applies torque only to the rear wheels of the vehicle. The friction braking system is independent of RGB.... When the battery pack is below 0 degrees, RGB will not be allowed..."
I assume (and hope!) that is in Fahrenheit! -17 in real degrees seems like a reasonable cutoff - not sure how that compares to the S and X.

Most important bit: Five Cycle Range (mi): 334 (!!)
That is with headlights and climate control off, so the Tesla Desired Range of 310mi should be very achievable in our cooler climate, but only a little optimistic in the winter, is my guess.
 
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The regen braking doesn't work when the battery pack is cold, but the battery pack doesn't have to be cold just because the air is cold. The Model S has heaters for the battery pack so I assume that the M3 will have the same.

Pro tip - schedule your charging to occur just before you leave for work in the morning so that your battery pack is still warm. This will help to avoid the limited regen at cold temperature issue.
 
The regen braking doesn't work when the battery pack is cold, but the battery pack doesn't have to be cold just because the air is cold. The Model S has heaters for the battery pack so I assume that the M3 will have the same.

Pro tip - schedule your charging to occur just before you leave for work in the morning so that your battery pack is still warm. This will help to avoid the limited regen at cold temperature issue.
I think limited to no regen in colder weather is not a bad thing. Ever try applying your e-brake to your rear wheels while turning a corner while on ice? That's basically what regen on a RWD is going to do.
 
I actually liked the way rear wheel regen worked in snowy conditions. You might have to feather it a bit under very slippery conditions, but it actually tended to stabilize the car. I had an AWD loaner go totally sideways last winter when using regen (it had no-season tires).
 
Assuming the Model 3 is very similar to your rear-regen S, can you actually describe how that makes sense? I'm going to disregard your statement about the AWD going bonkers, since I always am outfitted with winter tires - must have been fun though!

I understand feathering the accelerator in order to slow down while in regen in order to prevent lock up in a 'driving-straight-on-ice' situation. That's very analogous to feathering the brake in an ICE.
If you are in a turning situation on ice, and you need to apply brakes in an ICE, it's a simple feathering process as well, as the brakes apply deceleration to both the front and rear axles, and all sorts of ABS/traction control can help. However, if you are driving on an icy road in a RWD Tesla and you round a corner and need to slow down, your options are to feather the accelerator to bring about enough reverse torque to slow down, or to apply the brakes (which means full-regen and friction brakes which I presume is an aggressive slowdown). But in the middle somewhere, you have applied too much reverse torque to the rear wheels, and now they've locked up, spinning you into the ditch/oncoming traffic/getting lucky and staying in your lane somehow.

Am I missing something here? I'm not ranting for the sake of argument; it's my ~$5000USD question. This is a serious concern for me. I do a lot of back country skiing and snowboarding for about 6 months a year, so I'm on all sorts of mountain roads in any type of conditions and temperatures imaginable - being a snow chaser means that if there are warnings for people to stay off the roads, generally means I'm on them. I'm not sure if the current Model S/X demographic fits my audience in which Tesla may not have the data/experience in this regard.
 
I think limited to no regen in colder weather is not a bad thing. Ever try applying your e-brake to your rear wheels while turning a corner while on ice? That's basically what regen on a RWD is going to do.
That depends on the road conditions where you drive. Low temperatures do not necessarily mean slippery roads. We will have limited regen from pretty much Nov - March in southern Ontario but I may only drive on snow or ice covered roads a handful of times each winter, especially on arterial roads or 400 series highways that get lots of attention from salters and plows.
 
Sure, I guess I should have distinguished cold from icy. I'm interested to see what @Doug_G or anyone else has to say about RWD regen in adverse road conditions.
The anti slip feature of the rear wheel drive regen is actually far superior to the ABS. It does not "lock up". You can actually see the fluctuations in regen amount on the dash as it tries to grip.
I love the way it grabs the ice to the limit of traction. The only scary time is when I finally hit the brakes and ABS kicks in. Then I start to feel like a curling stone.
 
Interesting, thanks @Lon12. So there's a chance that the regen could be very limited by the anti-slip feature, in which case you could start applying the friction brakes to activate braking on the front tires?
Yes. The regen tries to regulate so that the tires don't slip. It is much faster and more precise than the ABS. Before I would stomp the brakes to test the traction level approaching intersections in my ICE cars (on ice ha ha), but that just scares my passengers. With the Tesla you just lift your accelerator foot quickly and you will feel the regen causing a small amount of slipping.
I race Karts with only rear brakes so I'm very much at home with the rear wheel drive and rear regen braking.
 
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Did 3 winter with full regen in Montreal in my RWD Model S. There is nothing to worry about. All you need is appropriate winter tires.

I'm in Montreal too and use the winter tires that Tesla sold me (Pirelli). First two winters I didn't know any better and used full regen which was fine in the usual snow and slush. Last winter I hit a patch of wet ice during light freezing rain in the new EV lane on the 20E through Lachine. The roads were wet everywhere but the less traveled EV lane had a sheet of ice under the wet layer. It started to fishtail pretty bad and the traction control was working overtime at trying to get everything straight again. It's only when I got the accelerator feathered that I could regain control. I was lucky that day and didn't hit anything but I learned that by the time you get into an unforeseen circumstance it's too late to select regen to low.
 
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Sure, I guess I should have distinguished cold from icy. I'm interested to see what @Doug_G or anyone else has to say about RWD regen in adverse road conditions.

In adverse conditions you shouldn't make any abrupt inputs of any kind - acceleration, braking, steering. That includes regen. Some people suggest you limit regen in the winter, but IMHO that is unnecessary. Just drive the car appropriately, and don't lift your foot all the way up!

Last winter I had some time with an AWD car and I do prefer it for winter driving, which is why I switched. But I did drive my original RWD Model S through five Ottawa winters. (I literally got my car the day before it snowed in 2012.) I really didn't have any problems with it. Well, okay, for the first couple of winters I had the crappy Pirelli tires from Tesla. They were so crappy I would get stuck on the slightest incline. But I never had any trouble controlling the regen. Just don't lift off fully/abruptly and the wheels won't break loose.
 
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