TMC is an independent, primarily volunteer organization that relies on ad revenue to cover its operating costs. Please consider whitelisting TMC on your ad blocker and becoming a Supporting Member. For more info: Support TMC

Model 3 Charging cost? - Significant increase in Electric bill

Discussion in 'Canada' started by Djnas786, Aug 3, 2018.

  1. pcons

    pcons Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2018
    Messages:
    1,081
    Location:
    Burlington, Ontario, Canada
    #21 pcons, Aug 4, 2018
    Last edited: Aug 4, 2018
    Yes that also makes sense. I also have a volt (wife has bolt, i have volt....getting a model 3 because i can use the extra range, plus volt/bolt are too similar in name :) )....I mentioned the Volt because on a 7 mile commute you would never need the gas engine. That would be there for longer trips only. On my volt I have 50k km, of which about 5k are on the engine and 45k on EV.

    Back on point: an ICE car under these 7 mile commutes is horribly inefficient, because they will run 'rich' until the engine heats up. Before the bolt my wife had a TDI golf, which got close to 60mpg on the highway when warm, but about 16mpg when cold and on short commutes...a big factor why we got her a bolt since she does a mix of short and long trips and the bolt is a similar size to the golf (and the m3 wasn't out yet).

    In an apples to apples comparison an EV still wins hands down. Let's do a more fair comparison of 20mpg/7 mile commute for regular gas vs an EV with typical heat use...

    ICE under these conditions:

    7/20 = 0.35 gal @ 1.30/L (avg price of regular where I live), that gives a cost of $1.72 for a 7 mile commute, or $0.25/mile

    EV under these conditions (assuming 50% of normal range, which is extreme and only valid for this use case):

    Model 3 rated for 500km/75kwh x 0.5 ~ 250km/75kwh = 3.33 km/kwh, or 2.1 miles/kwh (that is horrible btw....)

    At $0.13/kwh (typical cost where I live) that would mean the 7 mile commute would cost:

    $0.43....or $0.062/mile....

    That's still 4x less that an ICE, and things only get better as temperature warms up. ICE cars also get better as the temp rises and commutes get longer, but in that case an EV will still be upwards of 100mpg 'equivalent'
     
  2. Djnas786

    Djnas786 Member

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2018
    Messages:
    21
    Location:
    Toronto

    None of this takes into account the loss factor. Also, charging in my experience seems much notm inefficient. On such a short committee in winter the cost of an ICE and the 3 is much closer it seems..
     
    • Like x 1
    • Disagree x 1
  3. brkaus

    brkaus Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2014
    Messages:
    5,205
    Location:
    Austin, TX
    I believe Toronto has been much warmer this past July, based on the Cooling Degree Days calculation...

    You might try something like TeslaFi.com to monitor the power consumption of the car. I've been pretty happy with it. The negative is that your giving someone else a token that can access your car. Use my username in the how did you hear about us and get 1 month instead of 2 weeks free trial.
     

    Attached Files:

  4. Djnas786

    Djnas786 Member

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2018
    Messages:
    21
    Location:
    Toronto

    You might be right. I will definitely try that app. Thanks so much for the suggestion!
     
    • Like x 1
  5. darkenergy

    darkenergy Member

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2018
    Messages:
    181
    Location:
    Canada
    Pretty amazing experience for someone in Toronto who hasn't had a Model 3 during winter time. Do you have a refrigerated test track at home?
     
    • Funny x 2
  6. pcons

    pcons Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2018
    Messages:
    1,081
    Location:
    Burlington, Ontario, Canada
    Ok, so adjust my math by 20%, so cost goes from $0.062/mile to $0.074/mile, or for the 7 mile example, charging cost is $0.52 vs $1.72 for ICE at 20mpg...still waaaay below ICE under the same 7 mile drive conditions. No question about that.

    In this extreme example we have assumed the worst case for an EV (7 mile commute in winter), and the math still shows you would need a 60mpg car to have it cost the same person mile...after driving EVs for the past 5 winters in Toronto I have full confidence an ICE costs nowhere near the same amount per km or mile as an EV.
     
  7. orangem

    orangem Member

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2013
    Messages:
    127
    Location:
    Toronto
    I rated deadlast in terms of total energy consumption in the neighbourhood. But it doesn't matter as all charging is done after 12am and the rate is 2c/kwh. That's $1.7 for a full charge of 410km. Can't complain vs gas....
     
  8. gavine

    gavine Petrol Head turned EV Enthusiast

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2014
    Messages:
    2,117
    Location:
    Southern New Jersey
    OP: Are you charging from a 120V or 240V circuit? 120V is less efficient so less kWh’s from the wall make it into the battery.

    If 120V, it’s worth it in the long run to upgrade.
     
    • Like x 1
  9. ZooSean

    ZooSean ZOO

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2018
    Messages:
    766
    Location:
    Markham, Canada
    In GTA power stream area, we signed up super saving plan. It costs me only 2 cents per kWh after 12AM, but they increased 5 cents on my peak rate. It works perfectly with an EV which charges at night.

    This is an experiment plan, it suppose to be ended by next spring. Hopefully, this shall be the future electricity bill going.
     
  10. TesSpartan

    TesSpartan Member

    Joined:
    May 15, 2018
    Messages:
    21
    Location:
    Lansing, Michigan
    In Michigan, my 240V home charger usage almost doubled from a month of 50 degree nights to a month of 30 degree nights. I suppose this is due to the plugged in Model 3 using power to keep the battery at a protective temperature??? I also do use about 30 miles of electricity per day driving instead of my usual 23 for driving with heat on now that it is cold. I also increased my max charge from 60 % to 80 % so that I won't get caught low on miles if I travel far in cold weather. Thus, it may take longer to charge for two reasons:
    I use more miles daily
    It takes longer to charge the closer you get to 100% charge???
     
  11. SSedan

    SSedan Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2017
    Messages:
    1,397
    Location:
    Greenville Wisconsin
    On AC connection there is no charge tapering till well over 90%.
    The battery is also not heated accept to charge when parked or when preheating the cabin via the app.

    It is warming the battery before charging and the extra energy use when driving that is doing it.

    I believe protective warming is not done till like -20f if atall.

    Warming the battery to charge is a big deal though, it is a lot of mass you have to warm.
     
  12. bijan

    bijan Member

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2018
    Messages:
    384
    Location:
    Oakville Ontario Canada
    Does that mean you'll get the snowflake icon and temporary range reduction even when plugged in outside overnight? Because that happens even when temperature are in the high 20s F.
     
  13. TesSpartan

    TesSpartan Member

    Joined:
    May 15, 2018
    Messages:
    21
    Location:
    Lansing, Michigan

    Thanks for all that info. but I have one question:
    Then why should I plug the car in every night if the battery is not conditioned regularly?
     
  14. bijan

    bijan Member

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2018
    Messages:
    384
    Location:
    Oakville Ontario Canada
    If that's true about heating the battery, then one benefit left is if you preheat in the morning the power comes off the line, and not from the battery. Other than that I don't know.

    Edit: Also I think I read that preheat with the car plugged in does heat the battery.
     
  15. TesSpartan

    TesSpartan Member

    Joined:
    May 15, 2018
    Messages:
    21
    Location:
    Lansing, Michigan
    Good point, but the car warms up quickly without preheat so far this season, so I don't preheat.
    Thus, from what I've learned today, I am going to charge to 80% (instead of just 60%) and only plug in 3 nights per week. That should cut the electric bill down quite a bit!
     
  16. AFGTA

    AFGTA Member

    Joined:
    May 3, 2018
    Messages:
    54
    Location:
    Georgetown, Ontario
    I won't matter if you plug in 3 nights a week, or every night, your electric bill isn't going to change. If your driving habits are the same, you're going to have the same consumption and therefore require the same amount of charging. You're either charging a little bit every day or charging for longer on the 3 nights a week that you plug in.
     
    • Like x 1
  17. MP3Mike

    MP3Mike Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2016
    Messages:
    9,039
    Location:
    Oregon
    That shouldn't make any difference in your electric bill. Just being plugged in won't use any electricity.

    Though it is possible that a longer charge might have the battery heating turned on for less time than multiple smaller charges. So it is possible you might be able to save a little bit of energy.
     
  18. TesSpartan

    TesSpartan Member

    Joined:
    May 15, 2018
    Messages:
    21
    Location:
    Lansing, Michigan
    True, but not having to warm the battery on these cold nights in the 20 degrees F before charging each of 7 nights per week (and only doing so 3 nights per week) will cut down on the time that ions are flowing - I would think.

    For example, if it takes one hour to warm up the battery before charging, I will be cutting out 4 hours.
     
  19. MP3Mike

    MP3Mike Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2016
    Messages:
    9,039
    Location:
    Oregon
    It all depends on if the battery gets up to temperature before the charge completes or not. So charging as soon as you get back so the battery is already warm would likely reduce your energy usage.
     
    • Like x 1
  20. SSedan

    SSedan Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2017
    Messages:
    1,397
    Location:
    Greenville Wisconsin
    The charging soon as you get home may be a good strategy if you are ok with no regen and reduced power at the start of your drive.
    The battery is going to get much colder going days between charging and it will impact the driving experience more than you are seeing now. You may find yourself going back to daily charging as winter gets colder.

    Last winter I had a lower capacity charging solution and timed charging did not work well temp and variable use meant I was never on target.
    This year I have a HCWC and charge my S at 60amps, most mornings this means zero Regen limiting. I do not watch my bill closely though so no idea if it helps or hurts
     
    • Like x 1

Share This Page

  • About Us

    Formed in 2006, Tesla Motors Club (TMC) was the first independent online Tesla community. Today it remains the largest and most dynamic community of Tesla enthusiasts. Learn more.
  • Do you value your experience at TMC? Consider becoming a Supporting Member of Tesla Motors Club. As a thank you for your contribution, you'll get nearly no ads in the Community and Groups sections. Additional perks are available depending on the level of contribution. Please visit the Account Upgrades page for more details.


    SUPPORT TMC