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Model 3 charging limited near 50 kW

Has anyone else noticed a supercharge rate at or near 50 kW as a maximum lately?

The car charged near 100 kW when I first got it but over the past 2-3 weeks I have have between 54 and 40 kW - tonight the battery was completely warm after driving 90 minutes and charging at 48 amps another hour (temp was 40° at the time).

It seems like a governor is on the car somehow - what do you think is the reason for the (relatively) low charge rate?
 

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ItsNotAboutTheMoney

Well-Known Member
Jul 12, 2012
12,455
11,040
Maine
Has anyone else noticed a supercharge rate at or near 50 kW as a maximum lately?

The car charged near 100 kW when I first got it but over the past 2-3 weeks I have have between 54 and 40 kW - tonight the battery was completely warm after driving 90 minutes and charging at 48 amps another hour (temp was 40° at the time).

It seems like a governor is on the car somehow - what do you think is the reason for the (relatively) low charge rate?

What have your states of charge been when seeing those charging rates?
 
What you are saying about being limited to near 50 KW charge rate mirrors what happened to me on my first (and only) supercharger visit. With about 50% charge level, the initial charge rate maxed out at 48 KW---and then started to taper. I was surprised as I was expecting a lot higher charge rate. I was the only one at the supercharger and tried more than one pedestal to see if the problem was with the supercharger.

Now I am beginning to think the car might be limited to a very low supercharge rate. Somewhere I read (in Tesla literature) that the model 3 can charge at a 170 MPH rate for the LR and somewhat lower for the SR (130 MPH?). When I first read those numbers I thought it referred to the internal charger in the car as the LR has a larger 48 amp unit vs. the 32 amp SR unit. However, neither internal charger can reach those numbers. At it's full 12 KW output (assuming a 250 volt input) the internal charger in the LR can only regain 48 MPH and much less on the SR. Therefore those advertised charge rates must refer to supercharging. If that is true and you base rated miles on about 250 watts per mile, then you would only need to charge at an average of 42.5 KW for the entire time to meet the 170 MPH specification. The problem is that it takes a full hour of supercharging at that rate to add 170 miles of range from a supercharger that is capable of delivering almost three times the power. The max charge limit of 48 KW and taper seems to be close to meeting the 170 MPH requirement.

If this is the case, people who travel long distances with the model 3 are going to be delayed by the slow charging rate and will be clogging up the superchargers with cars spending extra hours in a stall that could have been used for less than an hour to get a 80% charge in any S or X. Congestion at superchargers is a problem in many places and I would hate to be that guy with his slow charging model 3 upsetting others who are waiting to supercharge.

I hope that there is something wrong with my car and the OP's car and that limiting the max rate to +/- 50 KW is not a limitation imposed by Tesla---as a new "feature". I feel a little better that another member responding to my tread stated that he achieved 115 KW max at the supercharger makes me think that the car is capable of absorbing those charge rates but might be software limited in some way. Maybe it's just a Tesla deterrent to make model 3 owners avoid supercharging. My car is at the SC and the charging rate is something I have asked them to give me more information on.
 

TexasEV

Well-Known Member
Jun 5, 2013
7,656
8,935
Austin, TX
Stop with the conspiracy theories about slow supercharging to discourage use. There are many threads here with dozens of posts about superchargers that are slow. Then Tesla fixes them and they are fast again. If you encounter a supercharger that seems abnormally slow, call Tesla and report it. They can also tell you which stalls to switch to for a higher rate.
 

cpa

Active Member
May 17, 2014
3,583
5,227
Central Valley
Has anyone else noticed a supercharge rate at or near 50 kW as a maximum lately?

The car charged near 100 kW when I first got it but over the past 2-3 weeks I have have between 54 and 40 kW - tonight the battery was completely warm after driving 90 minutes and charging at 48 amps another hour (temp was 40° at the time).

It seems like a governor is on the car somehow - what do you think is the reason for the (relatively) low charge rate?

Yes, we have too. The Seaside service center charged our 3, and the highest rate (if I recall) was approximately 42kW at 40%+ charge.

I tried Fresno about a week later at 21%. Max rate was again around 42-44kW.

I gave Fresno one last shot two weeks after the first visit. Again, started with 20-21% battery. The initial rate was around 38kW, finally ramping up to 52-54kW at 50% full before tapering down. In all cases the weather was not that cold--55-65 degrees outside.

These low rates could be with the car or they could be with the plug/connector equipment or they could be with the guts of the Supercharger.

We will rarely need to use a SC for our 3, so these low-ish speeds are not that burdensome. My wife and I want to take a day trip once the new Casa de Supercharger site is open and charge there before heading south on SR25 and working our way over to the new SC at Kettleman. Maybe we will have a more definitive answer after visiting those two new SC.
 

swegman

Active Member
Mar 27, 2012
1,580
1,645
I'm actually impressed with the rate that the Model 3 charges; much quicker than my Model S. When temps are in the upper 60's and higher with an indicated range of about 30 miles on the car, the Model 3 starts charging at approx 113kW and doesn't drop significantly until an indicated range of over 225 miles is achieved. When the temps are in the 40, the Model 3 only starts charging at the same superchargers at approximately 40kW.

For comparison, the Model 3 will start at approx 113 kW but begins tapering down at approx 90 miles and is down to about 48kW by the time the car has charged to a range of about 150 miles.

Today I charged the Model S at the same supercharger but with an ambient temp of 39 degrees. With 96 rated miles on the car, charging was at a lowly 28kW.

All charging was done with no other car sharing the charger (i.e., if in stall 2A, there was no car in stall 2B).

So while it is correct that a cold soaked battery charges at a reduced rate, I believe a reduced ambient temp (i.e., 40 degrees as opposed to 70 degrees) also results in a reduced charging rate.
 

Twiglett

Single pedal driver
Oct 3, 2014
3,814
4,361
Austin
While I doubt that Tesla are taking specific action with the car firmware to limit Model 3 charging in anyway other than normal taper etc.
There is some concern that superchargers charge rate is extremely unreliable.
That unreliability is no real issue with an unlimited charge Model S or X, but with a Model 3 its a significant concern.
Even more of concern in the many, many states that enforce a time based charge structure instead of paying for actual energy delivered.
Charging at 24KW or 48KW ( or 62KW and 120KW) will be billed at the same amount per minute for a Model 3 owner, which is not good.

Basically there are so many variable that only affected time spent for a Model S owner. Now those variables directly affect the billing for Model 3 owners.
Tesla really need to figure out how to do this in better increments than the current charging fee structure.

[edit]
just to add this isn't a particular issue in the few states that allow charging rate based on power delivered.
 
To member TexasEV, I am not trying to spread conspiracy theories, I am just trying to understand why my model 3 charges like it does and if it is working properly. Coming from a S85 which has a similar sized battery to the model 3 LR, I was surprised at the max charge rate I saw compared to the model S. And yes I called Tesla to ask about the condition of the Supercharger I was using and tried various pedestals as I was the sole vehicle at the Supercharger. I am not trying to offend anyone or point a finger at Tesla, I am just trying to understand the way the car operates and if it is operating correctly.
 
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S3XY

Active Member
Supporting Member
Nov 24, 2015
2,213
7,594
Buffalo, NY
While I doubt that Tesla are taking specific action with the car firmware to limit Model 3 charging in anyway other than normal taper etc.
There is some concern that superchargers charge rate is extremely unreliable.
That unreliability is no real issue with an unlimited charge Model S or X, but with a Model 3 its a significant concern.
Even more of concern in the many, many states that enforce a time based charge structure instead of paying for actual energy delivered.
Charging at 24KW or 48KW ( or 62KW and 120KW) will be billed at the same amount per minute for a Model 3 owner, which is not good.

Basically there are so many variable that only affected time spent for a Model S owner. Now those variables directly affect the billing for Model 3 owners.
Tesla really need to figure out how to do this in better increments than the current charging fee structure.

[edit]
just to add this isn't a particular issue in the few states that allow charging rate based on power delivered.
The time based pricing is on a two-tier rate structure. Tier 1 is at or below 60kW or if you are sharing charging power with another vehicle and Tier 2 is above 60 kW. Tier 1 is half the cost of Tier 2. So Tesla did take charging speed into consideration for the time based states.
 

TexasEV

Well-Known Member
Jun 5, 2013
7,656
8,935
Austin, TX
The time based pricing is on a two-tier rate structure. Tier 1 is at or below 60kW or if you are sharing charging power with another vehicle and Tier 2 is above 60 kW. Tier 1 is half the cost of Tier 2. So Tesla did take charging speed into consideration for the time based states.
Yes, that is why Twiglett said 24 kW is billed same as 48kW, and 62 kW is billed same as 120 kW. He knew the break point was 60 kW. I don’t have a problem with that by the way, getting too granular would be more confusing and may invite scrutiny for charging by amount of electricity provided rather than by time. The charging by time is a workaround in states that only allow regulated utility monopoly to sell power.
 

Zoomit

Active Member
Sep 1, 2015
2,303
4,541
SoCal
From reading threads a basic calculation to determine if you are at expected SC speed is:

SC max of 120 kW - (current battery % *100) = expected SC kW

(148/310 = 47.7%)

120 - 48 = 72 kW

But, you said it was 40° which is cold, so that could reduce the speed to 50 kW.
Another way to look at it is that it should be (or can be) ~116 kW up to about 50%, then charging power tapers linearly from 116kw to basically 0kw at 100%.

20180204-3lr-sc-taper-png.278143

More details in this thread: Supercharger speed: 116kW
 
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Reactions: David L
Pretty sure this is charger related rather than vehicle related. of the 4 Superchargers I've used, 2 limited to 40-50kW (briefly starting at 60 and then stabilizing at 40-50 within a minute or 2), while the other 2 both ran above 100. I've used both limited and unlimited on the same day, so no change in software, and on one of the limited ones my dad's S had the same 40-50kW charge rate while he's seen 100kW on the same 2 I have.
 
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