Model 3 crashed into a pole

[tpatana]

Sorry to hear about the accident. But blaming sw/hw malfunction is bit too much imho. Like Tomc said above, my first guess was that maybe cruise was still active. I've had similar couple times when I disable EAP with wheel, and forget the cruise is still active. That would be simple and believable reason for the accident. People make mistakes, luckily no major bodily injuries. Everything else is easy to buy from store, but it takes about 9 months to make babies. (then again, I waited model3 for 26 months... big baby).

Looking at the pictures, my second guess is the un-even surface caused traction control to disable reg braking. One of the roads I drive has funny dip in one of the corners. When my wheels go over the dip at proper angle, almost every time reg braking is disabled and to me it feels like the car accelerates.

Either case, sounds like too much speed compared to the corner is the root cause. Everything else is just stuff around it.

You survived your crash, so that's pretty good.

Most people who don't survive, don't come to tell the story at the forum.

 

[Dangerous Fish]

All I would add is:
1: There's no mention of braking before the turn so I assume the OP was relying on regen to slow the car enough for the turn. If the regen wasn't working as the OP said, why didn't they brake instead?

2. If the left front tyre was deflated the amount shown in the photo before the turn was made, I don't think that would have been the soul contributor to the car not making the turn.

3. There is no mention of what speed the OP was doing on approach to the intersection and at the point of making the left turn. What was the speed limit at that location?

 

[ElectricLee]

I thought Autopilot is only used on Freeways?

 

[robski]

Saddens me to write this but here I go.

Before last week I would have never bought into your story, but after what happened to me on the freeway, I can totally imagine a scenario playing out as you describe.

I was driving the flow of traffic at around 60MPH when we all come upon a left bend/turn on the freeway. I was in the middle lane and there was another car slightly ahead of me in the right lane. As we take the turn my car suddenly jerks to the left as if to avoid hitting the car to my right. It was very similar to how my car gives a collision warning for parked cars when I'm in a residential area, except this time the car gave me no warning and just took over. AP was NOT engaged, however, I did disable it a few miles back as traffic was lifting.

I didn't even know the car would/could take over like that without AP engaged. I've used AP for almost 3 years and this has never happend to me (AP1 still rules IMO but that's besides the point). It was so instant and unexpected. If I hit anything to my left, I would absolutely blame the car.

Were there any other cars around you? Maybe your car thought it was avoiding an accident and ran you right into the pole. I don't know if it recognizes poles or not but I do understand how instantly this can all play out and how crashing is inevitable even with the best reaction time. The car took over itself and there's nothing you can do about it.

 

[Dangerous Fish]

Saddens me to write this but here I go.

Before last week I would have never bought into your story, but after what happened to me on the freeway, I can totally imagine a scenario playing out as you describe.

I was driving the flow of traffic at around 60MPH when we all come upon a left bend/turn on the freeway. I was in the middle lane and there was another car slightly ahead of me in the right lane. As we take the turn my car suddenly jerks to the left as if to avoid hitting the car to my right. It was very similar to how my car gives a collision warning for parked cars when I'm in a residential area, except this time the car gave me no warning and just took over. AP was NOT engaged, however, I did disable it a few miles back as traffic was lifting.

I didn't even know the car would/could take over like that without AP engaged. I've used AP for almost 3 years and this has never happend to me (AP1 still rules IMO but that's besides the point). It was so instant and unexpected. If I hit anything to my left, I would absolutely blame the car.

Were there any other cars around you? Maybe your car thought it was avoiding an accident and ran you right into the pole. I don't know if it recognizes poles or not but I do understand how instantly this can all play out and how crashing is inevitable even with the best reaction time. The car took over itself and there's nothing you can do about it.

I have no experience of AP yet, so is my understanding correct that if you have AP turned off, there's no automatic collision avoidance or automatic braking of any sort?
If AP is off, is everything down to the driver?

 

[robski]

Apparently it is standard without AP. Here's from another thread.

I’ve encountered collision avoidance twice. In each case, a truck was passing me on the left at high speed and hugging my lane line while I myself was hugging it too. The loud steady beep, not the multi tone one for forward collision warning, the one which mutes the radio, alerted and the car abruptly moved itself right. It actually turned the steering wheel while my hands were on it. I don’t have any autopilot features.

 

[trm2]

OP, I’m glad you are OK. As mentioned above, make sure you take care of yourself, a car can be repaired or replaced.


WARNING Too soon of a joke below.

That isn’t how you play Pole Position.

 

[Garlan Garner]

I wonder if Anti-Tesla people post things in TMC.

 

[Fernand]

-- [Why did regenerative braking NOT kick-in when I was making the turn?]
-- Maybe when you took over from autopilot, you actually didn't hit the brake,
so TACC was still enabled.

That's been my worst scenario, when TACC remains engaged and I think
I've just disabled both AP and TACC. I'm not sure how it should be ideally,
but I think I'd rather have it drop both on any manual intervention. There's
something all wrong about overriding AP and suddenly realizing the car is
still barreling forward at the cruise max speed into ... whatever comes next.

 

[IdaX]

I’m thinking about your steering — could be you had a wire come loose from the steering column to have it not be turntable like that. But having this at the same time as the lack of regen doesn’t make sense. More likely a common failure (or feature) caused both...

 

[banned-66611]

Mode confusion is a major problem with autopilot and some other level 2 driver aids. It does really sound like TACC not disengaging was the problem here, combined with insufficiently clear indication to the driver.

 

[MMBTUS]

I don't believe AEB kicks in when turning.

Correct. AEB is disabled when sensing any steering, brake or go pedal inputs.

 

[brobinson]

This clearly indicates that there was some software/hardware malfunction in the car during the time of the incident.

Sorry this happened, but this is simply not true.

 

[brobinson]

Saddens me to write this but here I go.

Before last week I would have never bought into your story, but after what happened to me on the freeway, I can totally imagine a scenario playing out as you describe.

I was driving the flow of traffic at around 60MPH when we all come upon a left bend/turn on the freeway. I was in the middle lane and there was another car slightly ahead of me in the right lane. As we take the turn my car suddenly jerks to the left as if to avoid hitting the car to my right. It was very similar to how my car gives a collision warning for parked cars when I'm in a residential area, except this time the car gave me no warning and just took over. AP was NOT engaged, however, I did disable it a few miles back as traffic was lifting.

I didn't even know the car would/could take over like that without AP engaged. I've used AP for almost 3 years and this has never happend to me (AP1 still rules IMO but that's besides the point). It was so instant and unexpected. If I hit anything to my left, I would absolutely blame the car.

Were there any other cars around you? Maybe your car thought it was avoiding an accident and ran you right into the pole. I don't know if it recognizes poles or not but I do understand how instantly this can all play out and how crashing is inevitable even with the best reaction time. The car took over itself and there's nothing you can do about it.

Collision avoidance will adjust the cars trajectory if it is predicting an accident. It has nothing to do with AP.

 

[woodguyatl]

This gives agency to the vehicle, which has none, and removes responsibility from the operator. It's like calling a collision an accident. It isn't an accident, it's a collision.

OT and playing word games here but are headlines like “737 Max 8 crashes killing all passengers” or “Oil refinery explodes killing 8 workers” similarly problematic. Do they give agency to the airplane and oil refinery?

 

[thaian207]

Im so sorry this happened to you. I hope this is an isolated issue. Let us know if Tesla find anything, but I doubt they would admi t to anything.

 

[Dre78]

OT and playing word games here but are headlines like “737 Max 8 crashes killing all passengers” or “Oil refinery explodes killing 8 workers” similarly problematic. Do they give agency to the airplane and oil refinery?

Yes. It's also how I read the OP title: giving agency to the object. They all make me think there is something wrong with the object. Also, the use of the word "killing" is improper, so maybe they are bad examples. And seeing as how the 737 Max and its software are being blamed for the crashes, it's appropriate to find these headlines now.

 

[focher]

I have no experience of AP yet, so is my understanding correct that if you have AP turned off, there's no automatic collision avoidance or automatic braking of any sort?
If AP is off, is everything down to the driver?

No, that’s not true. AEB operates entirely separate from AP and is enabled at all times (unless disabled by the user in the settings).

Not sure what you mean by automatic collision avoidance. There are claims AP has some level of such functionality but I’ve never seen Tesla claim or confirm it.

 

[brobinson]

No, that’s not true. AEB operates entirely separate from AP and is enabled at all times (unless disabled by the user in the settings).

Not sure what you mean by automatic collision avoidance. There are claims AP has some level of such functionality but I’ve never seen Tesla claim or confirm it.

Page 84 of the manual:

Lane Assist also provides steering interventions if Model 3 drifts into (or close to)an adjacent lane in which an object, such as a vehicle, is detected. In these situations, Model3 automatically steers to a safer position in its driving lane.

This has proven to also apply if a vehicle is entering your lane and will cause a collision.

 

[cleveland97]

I agree with the others that suggested the OP might have disabled auto-steer but not TACC. It's happened to me many times... I turn the wheel and hear the auto-steer chiming it's disengagement, then I am surprised when the car keeps going or accelerates around a turn because the car in front of me (which the TACC had slowed for) is now out of the way. That certainly would explain why no regen. So my best guess is the OP entered the turn too quickly, expected regen to slow him down, but TACC actually accelerated through the turn and he lost control. AEB not kicking in is easy to explain - turning and/or the object (the pole) was too small.