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Model 3 Crossover Confirmed!
- Thread starter clarkbariowa
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Candleflame
Active Member
at about 13 minutes he does talk about pay 2 use of the supercharger network... let's hope it stays 'free' for tesla owners...
Red Sage
The Cybernetic Samurai
I believe that Elon Musk intends that Supercharger access be free of charge, as an included feature for all Tesla Motors vehicles going forward. As JB Straubel indicated, it may be necessary to modify the policy at some point in the future.
I believe that maybe accomplished by allowing no fee, included Supercharger access to the initial owner only, instead of 'for the life of the car'... Or, only allowing Supercharger access for the first 100,000 miles, before paying a modest additional fee for the next 100,000.
Please note that all current versions of Model S include Supercharger access standard, since both the Model S 40 and Model S 60 have been discontinued. I believe Supercharger access will be similarly included for all Model X variants.
Personally, I remain confident that the administrative, design, construction, maintenance, and energizing costs of Superchargers can be borne indefinitely by growing sales of new cars. The money saved by not wasting dollars on traditional paid advertising, combined with the funds 'earned' by not having 'independent franchised dealerships' skimming off the top, and more cash garnered through selling solar energy to the grid will easily balance the equation in favor of Tesla Motors.
Besides, most people claim that for any distance over 500 miles one way, they prefer to fly anyhow. We'll see how well that notion holds up once they own a Tesla.
;-)
I believe that maybe accomplished by allowing no fee, included Supercharger access to the initial owner only, instead of 'for the life of the car'... Or, only allowing Supercharger access for the first 100,000 miles, before paying a modest additional fee for the next 100,000.
Please note that all current versions of Model S include Supercharger access standard, since both the Model S 40 and Model S 60 have been discontinued. I believe Supercharger access will be similarly included for all Model X variants.
Personally, I remain confident that the administrative, design, construction, maintenance, and energizing costs of Superchargers can be borne indefinitely by growing sales of new cars. The money saved by not wasting dollars on traditional paid advertising, combined with the funds 'earned' by not having 'independent franchised dealerships' skimming off the top, and more cash garnered through selling solar energy to the grid will easily balance the equation in favor of Tesla Motors.
Besides, most people claim that for any distance over 500 miles one way, they prefer to fly anyhow. We'll see how well that notion holds up once they own a Tesla.
;-)
PS. The convertible does not have to be a coupe for me. Would be the only 4 door convertible currently on the market :biggrin: hint hint
Jaff
Active Member
I seem to recall reading somewhere about Elon wanting the "new" Roadster to be a 2+2...so it will need to be larger than the current Roadster...might fit you after all! :smile:
I think this is a bit mis-targeted. If they went that route, it should be based on kWh consumed with some "reasonable threshold" (like your 100k miles, but in kWh instead).
They could pick a number like "1,000 full supercharge cycles", and thus map that to 85MWh as "included" and talk about a subscription (yearly or "charge chunks") after that. I really hope they don't go into a "pay at the pump" system instead of a subscription one. The latter doesn't require the "pumps" to have any payment tech in them.
Edit:
I picked the 1,000 number of the air. Let's get more concrete.
100,000 miles / (265 mi / 85 kWh) = 32.075 MWh
Ok, so even if you did all your charging for 100,000 miles it would only be 32 MWh.
So put the threshold at something like 5 MWh (15% of your charging at superchargers) and call it a day. At $0.10 per kWh, that's only $500. Unless I mucked up my math....
This is too funny. Do you all not realize that Tesla pays Industrial rates for electricity? Here around Omaha that goes as low as $0.01-$0.03/kwh. I don't think Tesla is at all concerned about the electricity costs. That's why it's included in the price of the car. I think it's much more likely that they require payments for supercharging from other electric cars instead of their own. We pay for this in the price of a new car ($2,000 supercharging fee is built-into the price of a new car)
I find it amazing that none of the other manufacturers have even considered this.
What makes Tesla cars compelling is the network of superchargers. If that network didn't exist it would be just another EV with some nice features.
Its that network that will make the Model 3 just as compelling, so on that basis I don't think there is any chance of this car not having supercharger capability.
What makes Tesla cars compelling is the network of superchargers. If that network didn't exist it would be just another EV with some nice features.
Its that network that will make the Model 3 just as compelling, so on that basis I don't think there is any chance of this car not having supercharger capability.
Red Sage
The Cybernetic Samurai
brianman: The reason I didn't refer to kWh is twofold:
1) Tesla Motors would have to go through some serious regulatory hurdles to 'sell' electricity, and they surely want to avoid being classified as a utility.
2) Tesla already refers to 'gasoline free' miles driven on their big board at Hawthorne that tabulates Supercharger usage, so they are already tabulating the miles driven by owners everywhere.
That's why I refer to Supercharger access. In the interest of the 'Keep It Simple, Stupid' (K.I.S.S.) principle, I would personally prefer that there be unlimited usage included for all Tesla owners -- forever. I believe I noted that before. I am merely exploring possible outcomes for Supercharger access payment options that do not involve either:
I considered 100,000 miles as a possibility because honestly, most people would never reach that much Supercharger use. As far as the original owner, who might trade for a new car after three-to-five years, it would have been 'free for life' while they had it. At 15,000 miles per year on average, and perhaps no more than 5,000 of those for road trips, Supercharger use would be rather minimal. And most who buy new cars are homeowners who charge primarily at home. Someone renting an apartment in urban areas may Supercharge more often, but they also might lease a new car -- for three years at most... and only 12,000 miles per year.
Twiglett: Precisely! I have been saying that for over a year! It astounds me that after all Elon Musk has said, so many Tesla Enthusiasts expect, recommend, or just plain want the Superchargers to be 'exclusive' somehow. I think they don't truly accept that Tesla Motors exists to make electric vehicles ubiquitous, not rare... Affordable, not expensive... Easy, not complicated... And inclusive of all future Tesla owners, rather than separate, limited, and exclusive to Generation II buyers. The Model S and Model X exist to pave the way for easily presenting Model ≡.
1) Tesla Motors would have to go through some serious regulatory hurdles to 'sell' electricity, and they surely want to avoid being classified as a utility.
2) Tesla already refers to 'gasoline free' miles driven on their big board at Hawthorne that tabulates Supercharger usage, so they are already tabulating the miles driven by owners everywhere.
That's why I refer to Supercharger access. In the interest of the 'Keep It Simple, Stupid' (K.I.S.S.) principle, I would personally prefer that there be unlimited usage included for all Tesla owners -- forever. I believe I noted that before. I am merely exploring possible outcomes for Supercharger access payment options that do not involve either:
• An up front fee
• A monthly or bi-annual subscription fee
• Payment 'at the pump'
• A monthly or bi-annual subscription fee
• Payment 'at the pump'
I considered 100,000 miles as a possibility because honestly, most people would never reach that much Supercharger use. As far as the original owner, who might trade for a new car after three-to-five years, it would have been 'free for life' while they had it. At 15,000 miles per year on average, and perhaps no more than 5,000 of those for road trips, Supercharger use would be rather minimal. And most who buy new cars are homeowners who charge primarily at home. Someone renting an apartment in urban areas may Supercharge more often, but they also might lease a new car -- for three years at most... and only 12,000 miles per year.
Twiglett: Precisely! I have been saying that for over a year! It astounds me that after all Elon Musk has said, so many Tesla Enthusiasts expect, recommend, or just plain want the Superchargers to be 'exclusive' somehow. I think they don't truly accept that Tesla Motors exists to make electric vehicles ubiquitous, not rare... Affordable, not expensive... Easy, not complicated... And inclusive of all future Tesla owners, rather than separate, limited, and exclusive to Generation II buyers. The Model S and Model X exist to pave the way for easily presenting Model ≡.
The other thing to remember about the supercharger network.
Elon has already offered it to any manufacturer who will undertake to make it free to their customers.
Unsurprisingly there have been zero takers, because the others only make cars and can't make the leap to become anything else.
Tesla doesn't just make cars......
Elon has already offered it to any manufacturer who will undertake to make it free to their customers.
Unsurprisingly there have been zero takers, because the others only make cars and can't make the leap to become anything else.
Tesla doesn't just make cars......
Red Sage
The Cybernetic Samurai
Yeah. They have pride, prejudice, and professional expertise in their way... Traditional automobile manufacturers won't set aside their pride to accept Tesla Motors' standard for charging, looking to the SAE CCS FrankenPlug instead. They have always been prejudiced against electric cars and that shows in how they put their worst foot forward, always seeking to minimize their performance, range, and general appeal with compliance car offerings. And they remain certain that without the meddling of the EPA, CARB, and unwashed, long-haired, barefoot hippie tree huggers they would be able to improve the internal combustion engine the way GOD intended -- with no mandated emissions controls or expectations for fuel economy whatsoever.
