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Model 3 Customer cannon fodder & the right to full refund Dekra Report

CertLive

Member
Dec 15, 2019
638
486
United Kindom
Its been a rather frustrating time owning a model 3. It was meant to be part of an enjoyable YouTube series which ended in me personally not wanting to poster something of bad quality. Yes I held back. I have documented here the cluster of a pickup experience with pictures and video in another post. It was meant to be a fun day. Enough to put me off buying a new car ever if I am honest though. But I will get straight to the point for people as a guide of what you are allowed to do if things are wrong and you feel you have had enough of the ride Tesla put you on with their cars.

I bought my model 3 Sept 2019 on finance for one sole reason only. "Financial protection" and used this within my rights to not only get a refund for everything I paid on the car. My £14,000 deposit etc but also 8% interest on it over the 11 month term + money for my inconvenience as yes it did waste a ton of time. So I lost nothing, gained which is my right when a company produces a faulty product. This was from Blackhorse as they upheld my complaint that my model 3 was not of satisfactory quality and indeed the faults were in the car from the factory. This was backed up by a Dekra inspection which I will add below. The only thing you have to prove is that the issues / defects were in the car from manufacture and this gives you the right many months after buying the car to a complete refund and compensation depending on how much time was wasted on your part.

From pickup issues with the usual blah blah of the Tesla rep this will get fixed straight away with a service appointment, then to wait over a month etc for them not to be ready for the very issues you sent them photo of:

On pickup, watched people prepare my car got video, quickly wiping it over with purple solution, one person rubbing the side paint hard to get a sticker off like you wouldn't believe. Another person quickly trying to fast polish with tool to take out scratched paint areas. Got to car, sticky stuff all over the sides of the pillars and it was also covering the cameras. White writing still on the front window screen. Large front and back scratches. What a great first presentation of a new car.... Great when you get it home because what you don't see with their polish and under the lights is how much swirl damage you get once you try to put on your own stuff. I was assured though I could book an appointment and all the apparent small things will be fixed. Reality check it takes months and they are never prepared for your visit. Uber credits anyone?

Most of the Issues:
Range never showed 240 from new as advertised. Summer 220 Winter range is 160 miles.
Most supercharging I did managed to reach between 60kwh and 120kwh warm weather or cold.
2 months of wind whistle noise whistle at 40mph waiting for a service centre appointment.
Boot seal misaligned on the wrong way.
Water misting up all rear lights to the point they are not legal.
Left rear parking sensor was not showing correct data for weeks.
Paint defects in multiple areas and corrosion under the front under paint.
Rear doors misaligned.
Boot misaligned.
Rear lights also all out of alignment.
Objects under the paint in multiple locations from front and sides.
Terrible smell from the air conditioning all the time when first starting up.
Service centre visit not ready to deal with most issues when I get there despite sending the photos on the app with good explanation and then being asked again a few days before for the photos.
Paint missing on area's checked other model 3's for missing paint, missing on them so ( To Tesla Spec ) But they sprayed it.
They did fix the rear door misalignment issues at this point.
Ranger visit verified needed another service centre appointment and confirmed there was problems with the glass.
All of the glass on the car now needed ordering and replacing. Ridiculous for a new car.
Rear lights with water ingress replaced. These then still continued to mist up. Ranger did advise me that he was replacing the lights with exactly the same lights so was not sure if that would make any difference..... also showed me the hold at the back of them which I guess is is where the water gets in but its not a fixed issue yet.
Front glass large defect / warped.
Top Glass started to also warp around the edges.
Investigated noise myself as it I needed to wait another month for an appointment, pushed down hard on the inside front trunk and it seems the whistle noise is gone. Must have been a lose fit?
By the time the Dekra guy got to review the car down the edges of the rear glass defects. So all 3 parts bad.
Car of only 5000 miles. 4% battery degradation. Real range not 240 on but 160 miles winter.
Driver side handle popping out and now longer flush with body.
General alignment of the cars panels not equal not when you compare it to a Renault Zoe or my fathers 33 year old series 6 BMW 60K miles which still has its original paint with less defects.
Squeaky rear windows on full down.
Air now leaking through drivers side window seal at 30mph+ increasing already loud road noise.
Phantom breaking on autopilot and turning off suddenly on the motorway following road arrows not lane markings all video documented. Almost caused a rear end event.
Front panel of the cars edges starting to protrude at the sides.
Read driver side door dropped out of alignment again.
Indicator stalk sensors starting to fail sometimes I could not indicate and sometimes I could not cancel. Happened for both sides at random.
Front drivers seat on the last 2 days of ownership would refuse to operate backwards and forwards. Stuck in easy entry setting and manual adjust would not work. After many tries it seemed to free up and got stuck next day.

This all leads to the main words " Manufacturing defects would have been present at point of sale" and " Due to the reported defects the vehicle is not of satisfactory quality" Everything here is what my new car experience was like. I treated the car well.

This under law gives me the right to a refund even after 11 months of ownership. So while I commend Tesla for helping the EV revolution move along I am afraid the way they operate, produce cars with no factory checks before handover and mess people about at service centres sets a new low in quality and responsibility for car manufacture.

Cost of ownership of a Tesla EV is higher on wasted time and effort. I wish everyone the best of luck and a better ownership experience than me. I would love to buy another but its probably a few years before Tesla get it right here I mean 8 years on and multiple car models and its still happening even with the Y. On talking to any owner from down the road from me to at superchargers getting your car regularly fixed is now the new norm. The car is not worth £42,000 on the road with its current baggage Tesla are quite happily fine to give you with their cars as there are no factory or pre sale checks. Yes this is a highly negative post but it is a truthful one and I wish I had not had 11 months of this experience I would rather have enjoyed my time as I felt I was part of a movement to help the environment. But your rights are there to protect you and they are strong on finance so this case shows you have the right to a full refund if you have manufacturing defects and non satisfactory repairs / promised after service.

teslabad1.jpg
badtesla 2.jpg
 

TSLA Pilot

Active Member
Mar 12, 2013
1,843
3,312
United States
Hmmm.

For non-UK readers, who is Dekra?

Second, what is warped glass and how has this occurred on all of your windows?

Third, while Tesla certainly has a history of quality and service issues, I'd posit that this is not the brand for you--pictures of these many defects would certainly help bolster your case, yet you provide only the Dekra report . . . not a good look.

Perhaps the YouTube videos should be linked as well?

Thx.
 
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Reactions: GZDongles

M109Rider

Active Member
Apr 8, 2018
1,616
1,983
Kitchener, Ontario
Hmmm.

For non-UK readers, who is Dekra?

Second, what is warped glass and how has this occurred on all of your windows?

Third, while Tesla certainly has a history of quality and service issues, I'd posit that this is not the brand for you--pictures of these many defects would certainly help bolster your case, yet you provide only the Dekra report . . . not a good look.

Perhaps the YouTube videos should be linked as well?

Thx.

This will just turn into a never ending rant if you inquire, or ask for elaboration ....
 

CertLive

Member
Dec 15, 2019
638
486
United Kindom
Hmmm.

For non-UK readers, who is Dekra?

Second, what is warped glass and how has this occurred on all of your windows?

Third, while Tesla certainly has a history of quality and service issues, I'd posit that this is not the brand for you--pictures of these many defects would certainly help bolster your case, yet you provide only the Dekra report . . . not a good look.

Perhaps the YouTube videos should be linked as well?

Thx.

Dekra are an independent vehicle inspection company. Very good service.

The Dekra report has all the photos of the investigated defects and I have posted here before about the progressive issues with photos etc.
Here are some My ongoing Model 3 troubles since day one!
 

TSLA Pilot

Active Member
Mar 12, 2013
1,843
3,312
United States
I'm sorry, but those photographs show nothing but a slightly misaligned bumper, something that should be easily corrected.

Perhaps the YouTube videos would be of use--how about a link to those?

I suggest you examine other brands and switch as Tesla may not be the brand for you, nor do you appear to be a good customer for Tesla.

They're on a mission to save an entire planet--the only one that can support human life--and you may have become an endless time sink for them. Absent far better evidence of these supposed "issues," I'm afraid they may have grounds to bar you from purchasing another of their products . . . and they would likely be right to do so.
 

CertLive

Member
Dec 15, 2019
638
486
United Kindom
I'm sorry, but those photographs show nothing but a slightly misaligned bumper, something that should be easily corrected.

Perhaps the YouTube videos would be of use--how about a link to those?

I suggest you examine other brands and switch as Tesla may not be the brand for you, nor do you appear to be a good customer for Tesla.

They're on a mission to save an entire planet--the only one that can support human life--and you may have become an endless time sink for them. Absent far better evidence of these supposed "issues," I'm afraid they may have grounds to bar you from purchasing another of their products . . . and they would likely be right to do so.

Up the them make a better product in the first place. Would you buy again after this? I suppose the red rings around defects were harder to see? Maybe even the reflection of the brick warped in the centre? Who knows long list for any second hand car let alone new one. Maybe a copy of the service centre report or lack of factory check or PDI provided. Evidence is there and now documented by an independent inspection which backed me up enough for a bank to go hang on a second this really is not right. Well here it is even the bank backed me up on and I quote " The information provided by you indicates that the goods were not of satisfactory quality at the point of inception."

I hope this makes is clearer. Granted the list was substantially larger for faults. I did give Tesla the chance to replace the car twice they didn't have the slightest care about any of this. That is how they respect you as a customer.

rejected.jpg
 

Phlier

Bluebird
Jun 12, 2019
1,973
3,530
Utah
I dunno...

I kinda wish we could have these kinds of product quality discussions without the thread devolving into name calling and mud slinging. Guess I'll throw up (pun intended) a post before that happens.

Personally, I have no problem having guys take Tesla to task on QC issues that really do need to be addressed. Tesla has an obligation to their customers to produce a quality, lasting product. And, IMO, they aren't there yet.

But at the same time, there needs to be a point at which the line is drawn. When Tesla's initial product quality falls in line with the other major car manufacturers, then I'd say they're getting close, and people are really just picking nits at that point.

Sure, we can cut them some slack on a from-scratch design; call them "teething problems" etc., and give them time to work through it. But here we are nearly three years down the road (pun not intended) with the Model 3. That should be enough time for them to reign in on the QA issues, as well as re-engineer parts that aren't meeting longevity goals.

And of course initial product quality is a highly subjective thing. One guy's "it's perfect!" is another guy's "piece of garbage!"

I consider myself to be pretty picky about cars, especially from a fit-and-finish point of view. And overall, I've been quite happy with my Tesla in that regard, although the quality of paint they're using isn't the best... My car got hit with an egg, and it took the paint off down into the primer layer.

Tesla's products have the chance to do something that no other company has had the guts to do: Completely change the paradigm away from fossil fuels. I'm willing to let my pickiness slip a bit to see that dream become reality. Even if it means extra maintenance (which I haven't seen yet) and putting up with sub quality paint.

How much are you, as an individual, willing to put up with in order to help make the needed change away from fossil fuels? I guess that's for you to decide. As for the OP, it looks like the answer to that question is "not much."
 

M109Rider

Active Member
Apr 8, 2018
1,616
1,983
Kitchener, Ontario
I dunno...

I kinda wish we could have these kinds of product quality discussions without the thread devolving into name calling and mud slinging. Guess I'll throw up (pun intended) a post before that happens.

Personally, I have no problem having guys take Tesla to task on QC issues that really do need to be addressed. Tesla has an obligation to their customers to produce a quality, lasting product. And, IMO, they aren't there yet.

But at the same time, there needs to be a point at which the line is drawn. When Tesla's initial product quality falls in line with the other major car manufacturers, then I'd say they're getting close, and people are really just picking nits at that point.

Sure, we can cut them some slack on a from-scratch design; call them "teething problems" etc., and give them time to work through it. But here we are nearly three years down the road (pun not intended) with the Model 3. That should be enough time for them to reign in on the QA issues, as well as re-engineer parts that aren't meeting longevity goals.

And of course initial product quality is a highly subjective thing. One guy's "it's perfect!" is another guy's "piece of garbage!"

I consider myself to be pretty picky about cars, especially from a fit-and-finish point of view. And overall, I've been quite happy with my Tesla in that regard, although the quality of paint they're using isn't the best... My car got hit with an egg, and it took the paint off down into the primer layer.

Tesla's products have the chance to do something that no other company has had the guts to do: Completely change the paradigm away from fossil fuels. I'm willing to let my pickiness slip a bit to see that dream become reality. Even if it means extra maintenance (which I haven't seen yet) and putting up with sub quality paint.

How much are you, as an individual, willing to put up with in order to help make the needed change away from fossil fuels? I guess that's for you to decide. As for the OP, it looks like the answer to that question is "not much."

No one has an issue with someone ensuring they have deficiencies addressed by a company. It’s the dramatic grand standing, that is clearly designed to paint Tesla in the most negative light possible that just gets old.
 

CertLive

Member
Dec 15, 2019
638
486
United Kindom
No one has an issue with someone ensuring they have deficiencies addressed by a company. It’s the dramatic grand standing, that is clearly designed to paint Tesla in the most negative light possible that just gets old.

True right and I wouldn't have believed it either until I experienced it. It is a struggle to find the positives with no quality control at the end even after so many cars.
 

smatthew

Active Member
Jun 9, 2018
1,292
2,237
CA Bay Area
" The information provided by you indicates that the goods were not of satisfactory quality at the point of inception."

Reading Black Horse's letter is interesting. Nothing says the good were not of satisfactory quality except your assertion that there are potential issues. Why didn't they reference that Dekra report? Doesn't really matter though.

You weren't happy. I'm glad you got your money back. But this forum isn't for you anymore. Enjoy your future non-Tesla vehicles.
 

CertLive

Member
Dec 15, 2019
638
486
United Kindom
Reading Black Horse's letter is interesting. Nothing says the good were not of satisfactory quality except your assertion that there are potential issues. Why didn't they reference that Dekra report? Doesn't really matter though.

You weren't happy. I'm glad you got your money back. But this forum isn't for you anymore. Enjoy your future non-Tesla vehicles.

Black Horse offered the inspection. The letter is extensive in terms of all aspects of consideration this was provided on more pages. With respect Thank You I hope I have more luck in the future like others.
 

CertLive

Member
Dec 15, 2019
638
486
United Kindom
To sum up....
1) Yes, Tesla has had some QC problems.
2) It’s getting better.
3) Inspect your car on pickup, and don’t accept delivery if you’re unhappy with anything.

Yes on all fronts and number 3 being where I should have left it behind personally but why no check it first for me? Shifting cars over realistic communication is what it is for now. Great people here with great interests and conversation. I hope its taken on board somewhere. With all this investment I hope so very early adopters deserve medals.
 

one2many

Member
Aug 16, 2019
572
776
germany
OK, it late here but well wade into the muck. First I cannot read that much text
for money, nor should I have too. Anything you buy, well you inspect it I guess.
It is always some else that spills the beer, drops the rabbit or steps on the dog.
Maybe you should look at my post "unhappy unhappy"
Quit wishing for bad luck and nocken on wood.
I wonder what the breakup email looks like to the partner, pages.
 

dc121gw

Member
Oct 19, 2019
111
135
Atlanta
There are many similar threads on this.
  • Tesla's manufacturing defects are getting better, but still below par.
  • Tesla service is getting better, but still below par. The reliance on texting and the app is fine for ordinary problems, but a major obstacle to resolving complex problems.
  • It takes a long time to get a service appointment at a time that is convenient. I just spent two months waiting on a Saturday appointment. Tesla offers mobile service, but apparently it's not common outside California. Even simple issues require me to go to the service center across town, I have never been offered mobile service.
  • The actual service is not bad. They eventually fixed all my problems. Once you get your car in the service bay, the guys seem to know what they are doing.
I'm happy you were able to use the UK laws to get a refund. The US has a similar law, but in practice, the burden of proof is quite high. You must give the seller opportunities to correct defects. You cannot just use the existence of defects as grounds for a refund.
 

kbecks13

Active Member
Dec 27, 2017
1,917
2,368
SoCal
This will just turn into a never ending rant if you inquire, or ask for elaboration ....
You weren't happy. I'm glad you got your money back. But this forum isn't for you anymore. Enjoy your future non-Tesla vehicles.

Guys seriously? You can ignore this post. Just because someone is posting something you don't want to hear doesn't mean you should basically tell them to piss off. This isn't the Tesla owners forum by the way and no one is forcing you to read this.

It's amazing how defensive people get for a company that clearly does have QC problems.
 

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