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N5329K
Active Member
I have to agree with the ice concern. Flush handles simply will not work when covered with ice and snow. The only solution I can see is preheating the car remotely, and on a real cold morning that might not be enough. You'd be stuck.
Probably better to include deicer elements in the cold weather package that warm the handles and latch mechanism directly.
Robin
Probably better to include deicer elements in the cold weather package that warm the handles and latch mechanism directly.
Robin
Mechanical and electrical. As some one said before the door handle is manual that pops and the interior is a button that activates the same "door popper".
New door handle design Theses Aston Martin ones are mechanical not electrical and (as mentioned on the forums before) are cool. They even have LEDs in them
New door handle design Theses Aston Martin ones are mechanical not electrical and (as mentioned on the forums before) are cool. They even have LEDs in them
AZ Desert Driver
Rare combination
Just about to say similar...There are some serious mountains near the bay area. I would bet that the locals travel to them to ski and play in them. I also bet that not all Tesla employees grew up in California - some may have experiences gained in previous life locations where ice happened. Just because the building of the car is in nice weather does not mean the designers have not seen tough winter conditions.
AZ Desert Driver
Rare combination
I keep thinking of the guy who Yanks and Shoulder-checks on doors. I imagine the door seals ripping apart, frames bending, damage occurring from repeated brute force. I treat my cars like fine instruments - not to be brutalized. I'd hate to buy a used car from the brute. The folks that pour hot water, cover with a drop cloth, preheat, use deicer....these folks seem to have a better understanding of ice and how to solve the problem without damage.
I hope Tesla designs for the daily aerodynamics and lets those that have ice issues address them on a case-by-case basis.
I hope Tesla designs for the daily aerodynamics and lets those that have ice issues address them on a case-by-case basis.
DR61
Member
Thanks for the reference; however I was not referring to Truckee, that was another poster. I was talking about the community around Soda Springs/Norden up above Truckee to the west, over Donner Pass, where we have a residence. Actual records of course change; the recent drought conditions in the west have brought down our long-term snow averages. Regardless, many of us in California are quite familiar with snow and freezing rain.
ttupper92618
Member
So... while I appreciate the viewpoints about ice and the Model 3 handles, I'll just add this perspective:
I grew up in the midwest, in places like Iowa, Missouri, and Minnesota. I've walked out in the morning and had my car covered in ice more than once. And I can count the number of times I had my door iced shut in a manner that made it hard to open in any significant way on the fingers of one hand (maybe even one finger). So from my perspective, I think this ice issue is a somewhat over-rated problem; the ice is either thin enough that it isn't really a problem, or it is thick enough that even a normal mechanical handle is going to be a problem.
When you take into account the design of these handles, and also the nature of an electric car, the problem seems remote. To whit:
- The handle is a mechanical design: you push on one side, and the other pops out. IMO, if you have ice on your door thick enough to keep you from doing that, you have ice thick enough to interfere with a more traditional handle.
- Although I understand that a lot of these cars might not be garaged, I think it's fair to expect that the majority will be, by virtue of the fact that most people are going to want to be charging them at night. And that obviously sidesteps the issue.
Anyway, that's just my perspective.
I grew up in the midwest, in places like Iowa, Missouri, and Minnesota. I've walked out in the morning and had my car covered in ice more than once. And I can count the number of times I had my door iced shut in a manner that made it hard to open in any significant way on the fingers of one hand (maybe even one finger). So from my perspective, I think this ice issue is a somewhat over-rated problem; the ice is either thin enough that it isn't really a problem, or it is thick enough that even a normal mechanical handle is going to be a problem.
When you take into account the design of these handles, and also the nature of an electric car, the problem seems remote. To whit:
- The handle is a mechanical design: you push on one side, and the other pops out. IMO, if you have ice on your door thick enough to keep you from doing that, you have ice thick enough to interfere with a more traditional handle.
- Although I understand that a lot of these cars might not be garaged, I think it's fair to expect that the majority will be, by virtue of the fact that most people are going to want to be charging them at night. And that obviously sidesteps the issue.
Anyway, that's just my perspective.
Why do you think that charging precludes having the car outside? If one doesn't have a garage, is one supposed to forego charging at night altogether? Admittedly, if one has a garage, charging the Model ≡ is good motivation to keep the garage clean, but I would have thought freezing rain was a similar motivation.
Thank you kindly.
diamond.g
Active Member
I would actually be interested in knowing how the charge plug handles being iced over, if the door handle is going to be a problem, I hate to see what happens if you cannot unplug your car from the mains to leave.
diamond.g
Active Member
From what we have seen so far they door handles are not motorized.
The door latch on the other hand….
int32_t
Tesla Spotter
TaoJones
Beyond Driven
A pocket torch is your friend, insofar as rare icing events are concerned.
That said, I would prefer as few points of premature failure as possible. I'd be happy with manual door handles, a manual sunroof (old school), and manual seats.
I'm buying the car for range, AP features (drivability), safety, and LOW maintenance.
People want bells and whistles? Fine. Just don't force me to have them, unless somebody rewrites/improves that anemic ESA* with a quicknezz.
* ESA - what governs who pays for what between miles 50,001-100,000.
*ESA a second time - what does not exist for miles 100,001-150,000.
/goml
That said, I would prefer as few points of premature failure as possible. I'd be happy with manual door handles, a manual sunroof (old school), and manual seats.
I'm buying the car for range, AP features (drivability), safety, and LOW maintenance.
People want bells and whistles? Fine. Just don't force me to have them, unless somebody rewrites/improves that anemic ESA* with a quicknezz.
* ESA - what governs who pays for what between miles 50,001-100,000.
*ESA a second time - what does not exist for miles 100,001-150,000.
/goml
AZ Desert Driver
Rare combination
I must have not got the memo - What the heck are you talking about? whats an ESA? and whats that got to do with more ice?
ChooseGreen
Member
I had the same thought. I am VERY ginger with my 16 year old Honda with plastic door handles for fear of ripping them off. We get a lot of freezing rain and deep cold here so I do experience this often enough. I agree as others have stated that there are multiple issues here:
- Flush-mounted handles freezing over preventing the user from successfully pushing them out with their thumb,
- Handles being strong enough to allow the user to give a half-decent tug to overcome frozen seals,
- Seals and interior air conditions designed to prevent seal 'gluing' (previous poster's words, I like it)
(thanks for finding that! I didn't remember where I had seen that before), I feel as though Tesla is aware of the potential for this and will ensure there is a way to still enter the car (like someone said, a way to actuate the electronic 'popper' without pulling the handle or others)
I think 2 is easy enough to overcome with strong hinges. The handles themselves appear to be metallic.
I feel there are two parts to 3: water outside dripping on to the seals and freezing and moist air inside the car condensing on the seals and freezing. As others have mentioned, some cars are more prone to seal freezing than others.
With all of those, I feel as though Tesla will do their best to design around them. If they are not successful, they have broadly shown that they are interested in listening to their customers to fix issues.
One thing that does cross my mind is something getting caught in the handle and it not fully retracting. It is then exposed to catch many other things whilst driving (e.g. road debris kicks up and knocks partially extended handle off. I'm hoping for some sort of 'handle extended' warning should that occurs when putting it in drive. Imaging snagging some dude's pants pocket with an erroneously extended handle? Okay, now I'm getting absurd
dhanson865
Well-Known Member
It's not the snow he is worried about, it's freezing rain or fog that turns to ice.
Keep in mind that the new Gigafactory is in "snow country" past Truckee.
Plenty of Tesla cars will be driving between Fremont and Reno/Sparks.
Also, in the past, Tesla has been known to do cold weather testing in places like northern Michigan, and Sweden/Norway.
int32_t
Tesla Spotter
Many cars have handles you pull out which debris could, theoretically, get stuck in. Never had it happen, though.
Those handles are far too narrow to be anything other than metal, likely solid. There is no way some random chunk of road debris (short of what punctured a Tesla battery years ago) will take out a handle.
No problem. It's not often that I go, "Hey, I know where that was!"
