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model 3 dual motor long range/range

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I'm skeptical about the stated range on this car of 320 miles. Based on the computer, I average about 320 wh/mile. Doing the math (car has a 75 kwh battery - or 75,000 wh of capacity), 75000/320 gives you 234 miles of range. This is essentially what I'm finding. I use "%" not "miles," and I find that for each unit of "%" of degradation, I travel about 2.3-2.5 miles. Very occasionally higher than that. I don't accelerate hard and try to "regen" as often as possible.
What's your experience with this?
 
you can get 320 miles, driving in a test loop at 40mph all the way down to 0%.

in the real world, my long-term consumption is 330wh/mile. which is absolutely fine, btw. but knowing this, i wouldn't get a car with lower efficiency and/or smaller battery. this is the baseline limit
 
Are you routinely driving north of 80 mph or something? or are you using the cabin heat a ton? That can hurt range a decent bit in winter up north.

My LR AWD has a lifetime average of using about 265 wh/mi, though it doesn't usually get as cold down here as in PA, and is usually driving more in the 69-79 mph range.
 
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I'm skeptical about the stated range on this car of 320 miles. Based on the computer, I average about 320 wh/mile. Doing the math (car has a 75 kwh battery - or 75,000 wh of capacity), 75000/320 gives you 234 miles of range. This is essentially what I'm finding. I use "%" not "miles," and I find that for each unit of "%" of degradation, I travel about 2.3-2.5 miles. Very occasionally higher than that. I don't accelerate hard and try to "regen" as often as possible.
What's your experience with this?

320 wh/mile is high. I'm guessing you are doing things that reduce the efficiency. Like, using the hvac, having a cold battery, driving fast over 65/mph, driving against strong winds, using seat heaters. You should be seeing more around 250 wh/mile. I'm sure everyone already mentioned this.
 
Are those normal efficiency numbers for the LR AWD? Our SR+ gets in the low 200s and that's driving 75 mph on the freeway mostly with AC etc. It's not uncommon to get 180-200 if there's a bit of traffic that slows us down. Is the SR+ just a lot more efficient? I had considered a LR AWD for a second car simply because of the range... Doesn't sound like it's much more range if it's going to be 300+ on the efficiency meter.
 
I think 320 is a realistic number, but it will only be the case under specific cases, like an ice. City driving uses more energy, just like an ICE, so your range will be lower. In the city, I typically average between 280-320 WH/mile, so 320 miles range isn't going to happen there, and I don't care. I charge the car to 60% every day and only drive about 20-30 miles a day tops. On the freeway, I get between 220 - 260 wh/ mile, depending on the terrain. Plenty of range under those conditions. I typically don't break the law when I drive, so at <= 70m/hr the efficiency is OK when the terrain is relatively flat. In general, I have found the amount of attention being given to range on this forum to be annoying. Change the indicator to % charge and forget about it unless you are road tripping. The range on that trip meter is, at best, a rough estimate that depends on specific assumptions. Overall the range of the car is comparable to an ICE care, except it is a bit more temperature sensitive. Know that and enjoy the car. The only caveat is that, since superchargers aren't every ten feet like gas stations, you have to plan your stops more carefully. Other than that, its just another car (albeit the most technologically advanced, fun-to-drive and cool car that you can buy).
 
Are those normal efficiency numbers for the LR AWD? Our SR+ gets in the low 200s and that's driving 75 mph on the freeway mostly with AC etc. It's not uncommon to get 180-200 if there's a bit of traffic that slows us down. Is the SR+ just a lot more efficient? I had considered a LR AWD for a second car simply because of the range... Doesn't sound like it's much more range if it's going to be 300+ on the efficiency meter.


As I said, 265 is my lifetime average on LR AWD (approaching 20k miles now) so 320 seems VERY high for "normal" usage to me... but likewise I'm not driving through winters where it's routinely below freezing for months at a time either.... and when it IS cold I'm typically pre-heating from wall power then using only the seat heaters once I pull out of the garage (and then maybe some cabin heat if it's still bad leaving work but it rarely is)
 
yes. you will get no where close to the stated range.
I am averaging 260wh/mile and I'd be lucky if I can get 230 of total range. This is for a performance model.


75000/260= 288.46 miles of range.

(cue the arguments on how much actual available battery there is- but should still work out to well over 230 miles of range at 260wh/mi)
 
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I'm skeptical about the stated range on this car of 320 miles. Based on the computer, I average about 320 wh/mile. Doing the math (car has a 75 kwh battery - or 75,000 wh of capacity), 75000/320 gives you 234 miles of range. This is essentially what I'm finding. I use "%" not "miles," and I find that for each unit of "%" of degradation, I travel about 2.3-2.5 miles. Very occasionally higher than that. I don't accelerate hard and try to "regen" as often as possible.
What's your experience with this?

For 2020 AWD:

At 320 Wh/mi as displayed on the trip meter, assuming your battery starts showing 322 rated miles, you drive continuously without spending time in park, and you stop driving when you hit 0 miles (you do not attempt to drive further) you will get a minimum of:

77.6kWh*0.955*0.98/320Wh/mi = 227 miles.

0.955 - accounts for 4.5% buffer
0.98 - accounts for trip meter uncounted energy

To achieve the 322 miles of range, assuming the same, you need the trip meter to read:

77.6kWh*0.955*0.98/322mi = 226Wh/mi.

The 2020 AWD EPA test started with a battery with ~79.8kWh, drove until the car stopped moving (~4.5% below 0%), and achieved an average (on the trip meter) of:

~79.8kWh*0.98/322mi = ~243Wh/mi (actual efficiency about 248Wh/mi)

It is important to not use this value as the target, though, because it assumes using the entire buffer, and a brand new battery (well...a few thousand miles...I don't keep track of the exact miles on the specific test vehicle).

2020, 2019, 2018 Model 3 Battery Capacities & Charging Constants

Your car, if brand new, likely has in excess of 78 or 79kWh available for use right now. But once it drops to below 77.6kWh you will start to see you can no longer charge the vehicle to 322 rated miles.

Another thing to note is that in the Cold FTP test (20F) they were able to pull a bit less energy from the battery (1kWh less -which is actually a bit better than some results I have seen):

See 5-cycle data for 2020 Model 3 P with 20”.

Your main issue right now is cabin heat. Note in the 5-cycle test results above the 20F temps added about 100Wh/mi to the result (at the average of ~48mph for that test, that’s about 4.8kW).

Ironically, the way the formulas are set up and weighted, incorporating this result into the range calculations according to the EPA formulas (which they do!) results in a HIGHER range rating than if they had just used 2-cycle only testing. It’s because the weighting of that result is so low and the results on the other tests allow them to arrive at a scalar greater than 0.7 (the default 5-to-2-cycle conversion factor).
 
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Overall the range of the car is comparable to an ICE care, except it is a bit more temperature sensitive.
More temperature sensitive AND more speed sensitive AND more capacity sensitive -- i.e., you'd comfortably drive around with 10% of liquid fuel remaining, but you wouldn't do that with 10% battery capacity remaining (accelerated battery wear, reduced power available, less probability to reach chargepoint on the road, etc)

I wouldn't characterize the range as comparable to like combustion cars. Across long horizon of driving conditions and temperatures, you'd get north of 300 miles to a tank in a mid-sized sedan. And nothing NEAR that in a Model 3.


(The caveat being of course, in a pure city-scenario with daily access to charging, you'd likely never have to think about it)
 
LR AWD: I drive 120 miles round trip 4 days a week and I'm having no problem matching or even beating the EPA number.

In my case, its not very cold (I'm in SoCal), and I'm in slower moving traffic 50% of the drive, so my speed is limited to 15-30MPH for long stretches. The rest of the time I drive 75-80. My lifetime consumption is 223Wh/Mi over 11K miles.

I charge up every day, so I don't know how many miles I could ACTUALLY go on a single charge, but I have no doubt it would be in the neighborhood of 300 miles given the driving I'm forced to do.

To quickly illustrate the difference higher speed makes, my wh/mi is significantly worse on Mondays. Why? Because there's less traffic and I get to drive 75-80 my whole drive to work, and around 60% of my drive home. That alone takes me from the 220's to the 260's or higher. Add in using the heater and I'm up to 275 Wh/mi easy.
 
More temperature sensitive AND more speed sensitive AND more capacity sensitive -- i.e., you'd comfortably drive around with 10% of liquid fuel remaining

You shouldn't do that on an ICE car either.

Bad for the fuel pump (which is cooled and lubricated by the remaining fuel- though some car makers engineer this better than others) and (though this second issue is mostly on older cars with metal tanks) running with low fuel will also tend to pull up the sediment that normally sits at the bottom of the tank.
 
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... I travel about 2.3-2.5 miles. Very occasionally higher than that. I don't accelerate hard and try to "regen" as often as possible.

If the 2.3 - 2.5 numbers are not typos, then 320wh/mile sounds reasonable. Just curious-- How could you keep driving your 3 for such a short distance? I remember I'd make up all kinds of excuses to drive my 3 to places at least an hour away to have fun with it in my first year of ownership (I still do, just not as often). Are you sure you've got a Model 3 and not a Model 2.5? :p
 
I have an LR AWD and am averaging around 255 Whr/mi. I have 3 things that help my number: 1) My commute is on surface streets where I don't go above 50 mph. 2) I have 18" wheels (though I took the caps off). 3) I am in Texas, so my heater doesn't work hard very often.

If you are in the north with larger wheels and drive a lot above 70 mph then you will surely see north of 300 Whr/mi.