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Model 3 Energy Consumption Rate, Battery Size, and SC Charge Rates

Discussion in 'Model 3' started by SageBrush, Jul 30, 2017.

  1. SageBrush

    SageBrush Active Member

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    These three numbers are still outstanding information, although since we know the range the consumption rate and battery size are related.

    I'm still unsure of the Wh/mile for either Model 3 battery size and I suppose we will have to wait for the Monroney sticker to be sure of the values, but in the meantime please share all reasonable calculations based on Tesla information. Not guesses, please.

    Tesla reports in the specs that home charging for one hour at 32 A on a 240V line (7680 Wh) is good for 30 miles -- presumably EPA. That works out to 256 Wh/mile from the wall. If charging losses are 12% then EPA combined consumption on the road is 225 Wh per mile. The larger battery pack works out to 259 Wh/mile from the wall.
     
  2. yak-55

    yak-55 Member

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    A good start here can be found here ....
    A little spreadsheet trying to explain/conceptualize why things are the way they are
     
  3. Troy

    Troy Member

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    #3 Troy, Jul 30, 2017
    Last edited: Jul 30, 2017
    This page on Tesla website has all the specs on one page. What I find unusual is that it says "estimated EPA rated range" for 220 miles but not for 310 miles. At least not for now. Below is a screenshot. Notice how 220 has an asterisk that says "EPA estimated range" but 310 does not. In addition, the bullet points on that page are as follows:
    • Range: 220 miles (EPA estimated)
    • Range: 310 miles
    Tesla shouldn't be able to sell the car without a window sticker and the window sticker would definitely show the EPA rated range. Therefore it is puzzling why Tesla's website doesn't show this number. Anyway, that's just a side detail that I find unusual.

    @SageBrush, we could try to calculate the battery sizes from these two numbers on that page:
    • 3549 lbs. (Model 3) Curb weight
    • 3814 lbs. (Model 3 Long Range) Curb weight
    For example, what would be the larger battery if we assume 55 kWh for the smaller battery? What if the smaller battery is 60 kWh?

    [​IMG]
     
  4. Sonny Daze

    Sonny Daze Member

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    My guess would be that they've got more immediate concerns. Since they aren't selling the 220 until Fall/Winter they can deal with the EPA on that later. Maybe even improve it. ;)
     
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  5. Troy

    Troy Member

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    @Sonny Daze,

    I think you misunderstood the point I was making. The question is, why doesn't the 310 miles range say "EPA estimate" next to it but instead it just says 310 miles? Is this 310 miles the range at 65 mph? Is EPA range going to be less than 310?

    Tesla always showed an estimated EPA range. Below are a few examples. Why don't they show the EPA range or the estimated EPA range now for the long range version? What kind of range is the 310 miles range?
    • 270 mi EPA est, source, Model S P90D
    • 210 mi EPA est, source, Model S 60
    • 200 mi EPA est, source, Model X 60D
    • 250 mi EPA est, source, Model X P90D
    • 257 mi EPA est, source, Model X 90D
    • 220 mi EPA est, source, Model X 70D
     
  6. Sonny Daze

    Sonny Daze Member

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    I would assume the 310 is EPA certified not just estimated. The S and X pages read just "EPA" or "EPA range". On other sites (non-Tesla) I see "EPA rated" but the BMW i3 does show "EPA estmate". :confused:
     
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  7. JeffK

    JeffK Well-Known Member

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    You know, this still gives them a little time to change their minds about a slightly larger pack in the base model...
     
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  8. Jeff N

    Jeff N Active Member

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    Technically, the vehicle sale doesn't occur until delivery to the customer. That is the point at which the EPA sticker has to be final and posted on the car.

    Tesla just delivered 30 cars and they are presumably final sales so Tesla had to have filed final window sticker estimates with EPA. Tesla isn't building and delivering standard battery packs until later this fall so they don't need to finalize their EPA number for that smaller battery yet.
     
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  9. PRSIST

    PRSIST Member

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    Did I miss it Troy or is the on-board charger amperage not mentioned? I know that it was previously stated or believed it would be a 48 amp charger, but it would be nice to know absolutely so folks can decide on which charger they want in their garages.
    BTW Troy, did you notice that when you go to Tesla and lookup your Delivery Estimate that under the First Production 310 mile range with Rear Wheel Drive....the cost shows $49,000, not $44,000??????, and a delivery of Nov 2017-Jan 2018??

    I hope that is a typo ($44,000 instead of $49,000)
     
  10. Troy

    Troy Member

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    @Jeff N,

    Sorry for being unclear. The question is not about the 220 EPA estimated range. The question is about the 310 miles unknown range. What kind of range is the 310 miles range? It is not EPA rated range and it is not EPA estimated range. What is it?
     
  11. SageBrush

    SageBrush Active Member

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    Do you know of any government website that will publish the information besides fueleconomy.gov ?
     
  12. ItsNotAboutTheMoney

    ItsNotAboutTheMoney Well-Known Member

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    Yes, but they won't. It just means that they don't have to produce any smaller packs.
     
  13. SpiceWare

    SpiceWare Member

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    Looks like a 40 amp charger for the Long Range, 32 amp for the Standard - Check Out the Model 3’s Full Specs and Options
    First Production models = Long Range Battery + Premium Upgrade Package

     
  14. Jeff N

    Jeff N Active Member

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    Yes, there is a "raw" database with detailed numbers but it is updated periodically. I'm guessing it hasn't been updated online since Tesla filed their Model 3 numbers for the large battery pack but I haven't looked yet.
     
  15. Sonny Daze

    Sonny Daze Member

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  16. Jeff N

    Jeff N Active Member

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    How do you know the 310 isn't an EPA number? My assumption is that it is the EPA combined number.
     
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  17. SageBrush

    SageBrush Active Member

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    Link ?
     
  18. lupend88

    lupend88 Member

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    Because there is no asterisk next to it stating that it's an EPA number. Unlike the 220.
     
  19. powertoold

    powertoold Member

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    So far, Tesla has only made the long-range cars, so they probably got EPA rated for 310 with the long-range car, but with the standard-range car, they can only estimate.
     
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  20. MP3Mike

    MP3Mike Active Member

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    No, the asterisk means it is an estimate, because they haven't actually built the car to have it tested and approved by the EPA. The 310 isn't an estimate, it is the actual number that has been approved. (At least that is what I think.)
     
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