Model 3 in Snow/Ice

[XPsionic]

Here's a great video about the differences between the power split in track mode in snowy conditions.

TLDW: Even in 0/100 or 100/0 modes, when the steering is mostly pointed straight you still get AWD effects. Also traction control isn't completely unlimited even with stability set to -10%, and having regen set to more than 20% wasn't to the reviewer's liking on snow.

@tm1v2 I don't own a Performance, but my understanding is that the selectable torque split in track mode only applies under heavy cornering / slip angles. Even in track mode with 50/50 (or whatever) selected, your straight line torque delivery is still going to be heavily (mostly entirely) rear biased unless slippage occurs (as others have mentioned) or you're flooring the accelerator. It's not going to give you full time AWD with 50/50 torque split. Which makes sense, because otherwise if you toggle 100% to front or rear you'd be limiting total acceleration to the power available from one motor, and we know that doing that doesn't actually affect straight line acceleration.

 

[tm1v2]

@bedoig You're right that "Handling Balance" is not a torque split setting. And setting it 100/0 or 0/100 doesn't make the car FWD or RWD, the guy in the video @XPsionic linked to had that wrong. Though his video was a useful showing of how the Handling Balance setting affects the car anyways!

Handling Balance does affect the torque split though, as well as the traction/stability control intervention.

I haven't setup data logging to actually record front & rear motor power yet, nor have I driven my M3P in the snow yet. In the dry and wet it doesn't feel like it matters much what the exact straight line torque split is because these cars have plenty of traction. But for sure it will matter in the snow and ice, it'll be a lot easier to spin 1 or 2 wheels if the initial split isn't well balanced and it waits to react to wheelspin. I'm hoping that with Handling Balance set 50/50 the car keeps the torque split mostly even. I'll find out firsthand someday. Maybe next winter.

 

[bedoig]

@bedoig You're right that "Handling Balance" is not a torque split setting. And setting it 100/0 or 0/100 doesn't make the car FWD or RWD, the guy in the video @XPsionic linked to had that wrong. Though his video was a useful showing of how the Handling Balance setting affects the car anyways!

Handling Balance does affect the torque split though, as well as the traction/stability control intervention.

I haven't setup data logging to actually record front & rear motor power yet, nor have I driven my M3P in the snow yet. In the dry and wet it doesn't feel like it matters much what the exact straight line torque split is because these cars have plenty of traction. But for sure it will matter in the snow and ice, it'll be a lot easier to spin 1 or 2 wheels if the initial split isn't well balanced and it waits to react to wheelspin. I'm hoping that with Handling Balance set 50/50 the car keeps the torque split mostly even. I'll find out firsthand someday. Maybe next winter.

I can't wait that long I am curious if the 'handling balance' setting actually increases use of the front motor under normal conditions at all (ie, increasing from zero to anything at all when not under full 'throttle'). Who's got ScanMyTesla and a P to do a quick test?

Edit - I was about to tag @Sam1 since I was having flashbacks of the inverse of this conversation discussing regen and whether track mode utilized the front motor more. I went and found the thread and it's the same crew, lol. Memory failure

Should track mode 100% regen be stronger than normal driving?

Should the 100% regen setting in track mode be stronger than normal driving regen? October 2021 build M3P, if that matters. I briefly tried track mode for the first time. 100% regen felt about the same as the car's normal regen to me. I thought I read somewhere that 100% regen in track mode...

teslamotorsclub.com

 

[ArchEtech]

Tires.

I have winter wheels and iceX tires. My MP3 is a tank in snow and ice.

I drive in chill and low brake regen when it’s slick out. The full regen get squirrelly when conditions are slick.

No issues with either yet driving.

 

[rpiotro]

The most important thing to know about driving any car on snow is that the car makes almost no difference. It’s all about the tires. With proper snow tires on your Model 3 before driving in snow, you’ll find that Teslas are excellent winter cars. The traction control is out of this world, and as you’ll know by now the car is very well balanced. It’s a relatively heavy car, however, and you need to take that into account for turning and stopping.

I was with you until you said it was a relatively heavy car. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and say that you were referring to the dual motor version.

My 2021 SR+ had a shipping weight of 3614 lbs. By today's standards that is relatively light. The newest version of this is even 30 lbs. lighter!

For comparison, my last car was an Infiniti Q50 hybrid AWD. It weighed in at ~4100 lbs. The car I owned before that, A Pontiac G8 GT (V8 RWD) tipped the scales at over 4000 lbs. Heck even my wife's 2012 Mercedes SLK 350 is about 3400 lbs. For a small two seater roadster.

The main appeal of that SR+ was the light weight and the 47/53 weight distribution. I really am a fan of a lightweight, RWD sport sedan.

I did not buy winter tires (yet. I may change my mind.) because my wife and I are now retired so if it gets bad enough I'll just stay home. We have had very little snow here so far this winter but the one time I had to drive it with snow covered roads it did surprisingly well. When I learned to drive (1967) the only choice was a RWD, nose heavy large car. I managed. Gotta be real careful.

 

[ArchEtech]

Pilot sport summer tires should be an automatic no go at freezing temps….

 

[XPsionic]

My 2021 SR+ had a shipping weight of 3614 lbs. By today's standards that is relatively light. The newest version of this is even 30 lbs. lighter!

The main appeal of that SR+ was the light weight and the 47/53 weight distribution. I really am a fan of a lightweight, RWD sport sedan.

The new LFP battery RWD Model 3 is actually quite a lot heavier than the NCA 54kwh versions that we have. 1825 kg/4023lbs

Totally agree with you about the lightish weight appeal of the SR+, it's a fun responsible car. Too bad about the undefeatable stability and traction control though.

 

[tm1v2]

Totally agree with you about the lightish weight appeal of the SR+, it's a fun responsible car. Too bad about the undefeatable stability and traction control though.

I don't have an SR+, but if I did MPP Party Box would be among my "day 1" mods (alongside tires). I want to take an an SR+ for a spin someday (not the heavier LFP RWD!), I bet it's even more nimble and fun that the dual motor cars, outside of the snow/ice.

(MPP Party Box is the only full stability control defeat device I've come across for the Model 3.)

 

[ay221]

 

[SpaceKat]

Yo what's up! I was going to post this, too!

I took my 2022 RWD out in the fresh snow this morning to try it out. I had heard that the stock tires were terrible in the snow, and I wanted to see for myself.

Well, I found the car to be really well behaved. Overall, I am very impressed with the stock MXM4 tires. Super quiet, great dry traction, and in the snow the car behaves no worse than my GTI did with its Vredestein Quatrac 5's. No problems with fishtailing or regen braking. Maybe my car has snow mode, too.

Of course, my stock tires are brand new, and I would not be surprised if I replace them with a better all-season in a year.

 

[sgong6]

I am concerned about this so I didn't upgrade my order to the M3P.

The 18-inch rim with the all-season tire is the best.

I only wish tesla rated the tire at V speed so Costco can put CrossClimate 2 on them instead of finding another vendor.

 

[rpiotro]

The new LFP battery RWD Model 3 is actually quite a lot heavier than the NCA 54kwh versions that we have. 1825 kg/4023lbs

Totally agree with you about the lightish weight appeal of the SR+, it's a fun responsible car. Too bad about the undefeatable stability and traction control though.

Well, we are both wrong. I could swear I saw 3582 lbs. on their website. Here is what I found today.

Oddly, they also state max on board charge rate of 32 amps. Are they referring to the included travel charger? My son has a model Y and the Tesla wall charger hard wired behind a 60 amp breaker. He routinely charges at 48 amps. Is that a model Y thing only? Their specs page makes no mention of it. Very confusing. What to believe?

I have a Tesla wall charger but only a 40 amp circuit so that limits me to 32 amps anyway.

 

[tm1v2]

I am concerned about this so I didn't upgrade my order to the M3P.

The 18-inch rim with the all-season tire is the best.

I only wish tesla rated the tire at V speed so Costco can put CrossClimate 2 on them instead of finding another vendor.

@sgong6 You can run 18" wheels and/or all-season tires on an M3P. I have 18x8.5" ET35 wheels on my 2021 M3P (with PUP) right now (with 245/45R18 summer tires currently). Whenever I eventually get winter tires for my M3P they will be 18" size as well.

The Tesla OE 18" aero wheels won't fit on the M3P with PUP brakes, but there are aftermarket 18" wheels that fit. Some, like the ones I went with, are machined for a direct fitment on the stepped lip hub. Others fit with only a centering ring or 3mm "step delete" spacer (make sure the offset ends up correct).

 

[Jeremy3292]

Well, we are both wrong. I could swear I saw 3582 lbs. on their website. Here is what I found today.

Oddly, they also state max on board charge rate of 32 amps. Are they referring to the included travel charger? My son has a model Y and the Tesla wall charger hard wired behind a 60 amp breaker. He routinely charges at 48 amps. Is that a model Y thing only? Their specs page makes no mention of it. Very confusing. What to believe?

I have a Tesla wall charger but only a 40 amp circuit so that limits me to 32 amps anyway.

View attachment 759229

That is correct. SR+ is 32 amps max and 170 kW max supercharger speeds. See Tesla link below.

Wall Connector

The Tesla Wall Connector is the most efficient way to charge a Tesla at home — just plug in your vehicle overnight and wake up to a charged vehicle.

www.tesla.com

 

[ay221]

 

[RSpanner]

I’m in Alaska, 4th winter with the LR AWD 3. 8th winter with Teslas. This winter came early, and we don’t salt the roads. My tires haven’t touched asphalt much since early October, been almost all snow/ice covered.

Tires are the #1 factor in traction for winter driving, period.

As for Regen. I put the car in Regen low and acceleration to “chill” when I switch to my winter tires (Hakka 9’s) in October and leave it in low until I take them off in ~May. I notice almost no difference in Wh/mi and regen will put the car into a straight slide vs controlled slide of ABS.

Compared to our other current cars. The 3 does well in the winter. Not quite as good as our Subaru Legacy or MB e 4Matic, better then the LX570. It’s Weight and somewhat wonky drivetrain/stability management software (front motor sometimes kicks in late) are why our other cars are slightly more stable/easier to drive.

" I put the car in Regen low " In a 2021 3, awd lr, there is no "regen low" under pedals and steering, ..

 

[coleAK]

" I put the car in Regen low " In a 2021 3, awd lr, there is no "regen low" under pedals and steering, ..

Yeah I have no idea why they removed that feature. On my 5th winter with a 2018.

 

[jhneuerburg]

Tires are the most important factor here! I drive a LOT for work across MN, ND, SD, and WI. I drove a Honda Civic before getting my Tesla M3. The Civic had snow tires on it and it drove reliably on the ice/snow (without snow tires it was terrible!). There were many times I would pull in for a job and I would be asked "how the h**l did you get here in the Civic". One of the first things I did after buying the M3 was pick up a spare set of wheels with snow tires. My wife and I would rather drive our RWD M3 with snow tires than our Escalade without....

Regen Braking: After switching to the M3, I would have to say that there are times that the roads get icy and I have to switch regen braking to low as it does get a little squirrelly with full regen on ice as others have stated. Maybe this is better on the AWD?

 

[jsmay311]

FYI: For those who don't want to watch a 14min video, Bjorn showed that in snowy conditions acceleration and regen power gets split between the front and rear motors pretty equally in a AWD Model 3. This video was recorded in Feb 2022 and apparently this behavior was newly introduced at that time.

 

[coleAK]

FYI: For those who don't want to watch a 14min video, Bjorn showed that in snowy conditions acceleration and regen power gets split between the front and rear motors pretty equally in a AWD Model 3. This video was recorded in Feb 2022 and apparently this behavior was newly introduced at that time.

In a straight line, yes traction is pretty balanced front and rear. However cornering the rear kicks out then there is a slight (but noticeable) lag before the front joins the party.