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Garlan Garner
Banned
Rollover?
I have never seen a rollover - yet a Tesla rollover. The model S couldn't even rollover during the crash test.
erthquake
Active Member
Garlan Garner
Banned
I don't consider those as rollovers.
If a car is pushed off a bridge.....and it lands on its top...that's not a rollover. I look at a rollover as a car that loses traction on "a track" ( as you suggest ) and the tires all of a sudden grips the road and rolls over.
Re, Softex: having no experience with it, how is it in terms of cleanability and durability against tear / scratches? I own land in the countryside, frequently go on hikes, etc, so grime and scuffing are concerns (seriously considering looking into seat covers, even though that could be unattractive)
Re, PVC and polyurethane... what's the big deal? Most people's concern about PVC is the plasticizers used to make it soft seeping into water - but it's not like you're going to be drinking off of the seats or chewing on them. It's not like PVC is covered in contact poison. More of a concern with PVC is that while it's quite fire resistant, if it does burn it emits toxic fumes.
Polyurethane is, as was mentioned earlier, an entirely different material. It is inert and rarely requires plasticizers, although because of its flammability and concerns about smoke inhalation it's usually treated with flame retardants, and depending on the choice these can be toxic.
When one is talking about these sort of things, one shouldn't ignore it for leather, either. Leather processing involves a whole witches' brew of toxic chemicals, such as chromium compounds.
Re, PVC and polyurethane... what's the big deal? Most people's concern about PVC is the plasticizers used to make it soft seeping into water - but it's not like you're going to be drinking off of the seats or chewing on them. It's not like PVC is covered in contact poison. More of a concern with PVC is that while it's quite fire resistant, if it does burn it emits toxic fumes.
Polyurethane is, as was mentioned earlier, an entirely different material. It is inert and rarely requires plasticizers, although because of its flammability and concerns about smoke inhalation it's usually treated with flame retardants, and depending on the choice these can be toxic.
When one is talking about these sort of things, one shouldn't ignore it for leather, either. Leather processing involves a whole witches' brew of toxic chemicals, such as chromium compounds.
I've seen a lot of mdl S scratched all over. There are many levels of paint on them so you just see the background or base paint but they do scratch easily which is why I wrapped my car and galvanized it then 4 levels of paint-followed with clear nail polish. Nail polish gives it a really nice hard shell that's glossy.
... Clear nail polish? You mean nitrocellulose? I can see three things wrong with that... one, it's not rated for long-term outdoor use; two, it's very flammable; and three, it doesn't cure, just dries, so accidentally spilled solvents can still readily ruin it. Solvents a lot less aggressive than paint remover. You can take off nitrocellulose with a good soak in vinegar, for example. I guess to this list I could add that it's one of the more toxic types of coatings you could apply... fine when you're just doing your nails, but when you're painting a car, that's some serious VOCs.
Also, when you say "galvanized it".....
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SageBrush
REJECT Fascism
The concern should be bio-degradibility.
I'm surprised that a citizen of an island nation that has a dependency on the sea would have to ask that question.
I fail to see what the sea has anything to do with anything. Unless the plan is to shred Model 3s into fine bite-sized chunks and throw the shredded debris off a pier. Even then, polyurethane is biologically inert (although the fire retardants might not be).
Also: do you really want your car biodegrading? I want my car to stay exactly like it was produced during its lifespan, as long as possible, and then ultimately be as close to 100% recycled as possible.
erthquake
Active Member
But he was referring to the thick a-pillar providing head protection during a rollover. You were intimating a rollover wasn't possible. It is possible in certain circumstances, so the thick a-pillar is justified.
SageBrush
REJECT Fascism
Really ?
You find that reassuring ?
And here I was thinking that Americans had a monopoly on woeful and willful ignorance.
Start here
A little more reading
Your second link is mixing up VOCs from manufacture, vs. finished PU products. If you want to talk about toxins in manufacture, leather is most definitely the culprit you want to look at. The leather for your leather seats was most likely manufactured by someone in the third world breathing chromium dusts without respiratory protection and sopping around in vats of toxic solvents. Also, the flame retardants mentioned in your article are hardly exclusive to PU (they're not even most commonly used in PU - HBCD for example is most produced for expanded polystyrene foam), nor are they the only types of flame retardants that can be used in PU.
Yes, really, and the reason is in the very next sentence which you chopped off:
More to the point, I concluded with:
There's a number of polyurethane recycling processes, both directly into other consumer products (ground as filler, ground and mixed with binder, ground and compression moulded to better-than-virgin properties, etc) and to feedstock chemicals (glycolysis or hydrolysis to polyols to make virgin polyethylene, pyrolysis to syngas to make any hydrocarbons, etc)
If you're going to respond to someone, please read everything that they're writing rather than just picking and choosing.
Yes, really, and the reason is in the very next sentence which you chopped off:
More to the point, I concluded with:
There's a number of polyurethane recycling processes, both directly into other consumer products (ground as filler, ground and mixed with binder, ground and compression moulded to better-than-virgin properties, etc) and to feedstock chemicals (glycolysis or hydrolysis to polyols to make virgin polyethylene, pyrolysis to syngas to make any hydrocarbons, etc)
If you're going to respond to someone, please read everything that they're writing rather than just picking and choosing.
This is a non-sequitor. Just because you can think of a one in a billion chance for the car to roll over doesn't mean it's justified.
The decreased visibility is likely more hazardous than the chance the car roof collapses in a rollover.
BluestarE3
Active Member
BTW, how were the seats for comfort (especially in the lumbar region) when you took the Model 3 out for the test drive?
Not what I'd expect in a 35k plus vehicle, but then seats aren't Tesla's strongest point. It could really have used a lumbar adjustment.
