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Model 3 long range vs other premium sports sedans

Siciliano

Member
Apr 6, 2016
377
316
New York
Ok, the madness continues... throw into the mix a 2016 Model S 75D lol my realtor literally just pulled up to the house with one - new style front fascia and all. I thought it was brand new until he told me it's a 2016!

It's a good deal bigger, and imho a lot nicer looking! I'm also loving the all digital dash in addition to the center screen. But can a 2016 Model S handle full self driving? I do want that.

It is a little slower, 0-60 in ~4.2s, but that's still fast. But then the batteries would only have 4 more years left on warranty. Not good. Is this a stupid idea?? Hmmmm decisions, decisions. :mad:
 

Knightshade

Well-Known Member
Jul 31, 2017
13,107
21,612
NC
Ok, the madness continues... throw into the mix a 2016 Model S 75D lol my realtor literally just pulled up to the house with one - new style front fascia and all. I thought it was brand new until he told me it's a 2016!

It's a good deal bigger, and imho a lot nicer looking! I'm also loving the all digital dash in addition to the center screen. But can a 2016 Model S handle full self driving? I do want that.

It is a little slower, 0-60 in ~4.2s, but that's still fast. But then the batteries would only have 4 more years left on warranty. Not good. Is this a stupid idea?? Hmmmm decisions, decisions. :mad:


A 2016 made very late in the year could buy FSD and be upgraded to the HW3 computer as part of that purchase (or might already be if the owner bought FSD).

Note it would still have the MCU1 in it so it'd be $2500 to upgrade that and from most that's worth doing.

Most 2016s would be old AP1 though with no upgrade path.

I believe it's October 2016 when they switched over to AP2 which is upgradable.... (note there's still slight camera and radar differences from the "later" hardware the Model 3 and later S/X cars got, but it's still upgradable to FSD)


That said- I'd advise a test drive- I found the S to be pretty unpleasantly large when driving in tighter city streets and parking lots (though it was lovely on the highway)

And obviously due to size handling is gonna be noticeably worse/more-boat-like from a sport sedan perspective.
 
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Siciliano

Member
Apr 6, 2016
377
316
New York
A 2016 made very late in the year could buy FSD and be upgraded to the HW3 computer as part of that purchase (or might already be if the owner bought FSD).

Note it would still have the MCU1 in it so it'd be $2500 to upgrade that and from most that's worth doing.

Most 2016s would be old AP1 though with no upgrade path.

I believe it's October 2016 when they switched over to AP2 which is upgradable.... (note there's still slight camera and radar differences from the "later" hardware the Model 3 and later S/X cars got, but it's still upgradable to FSD)


That said- I'd advise a test drive- I found the S to be pretty unpleasantly large when driving in tighter city streets and parking lots (though it was lovely on the highway)

And obviously due to size handling is gonna be noticeably worse/more-boat-like from a sport sedan perspective.

You make some very good points. I still haven't even driven in an S, so I will definitely need to do a test drive, then I can compare to the 3 w/boost. I will definitely have to ask which hardware it has and which AP version.
 

1.21GW

Member
Jul 23, 2018
771
1,269
Michigan
I was planning to write a long diatribe about how Tesla is far better than its competition in every respect.

However, nothing beats driving one. I’ll never forget the first time I drove a Model S, I was hooked on EV performance.

Tech
Performance
Cost of ownership (maintenance, electricity, etc..)
Theoretically can go 300,000-500,000 miles on original battery pack

Ok.. I’m stepping away from the keyboard. I fear I may dive too deep into the details and start explaining Silicon Carbide MOSFETs..
 

Fernand

Active Member
Mar 22, 2019
1,574
1,719
Northern california
It's simply the difference between a modern smart phone and an old clamshell, or even a brick-phone. Different century. Not even vaguely comparable.

I had them do the Complete full de-luxe Annual Service Maintenance last week, while they upgraded the computer. They charged $0 for it. It consists of checking the tires and topping off the windshield wiper fluid.
.
 
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Zcd1

Member
Sep 2, 2018
749
907
Walloon Lake, MI / LaQuinta, CA
Ok, the madness continues... throw into the mix a 2016 Model S 75D lol my realtor literally just pulled up to the house with one - new style front fascia and all. I thought it was brand new until he told me it's a 2016!

It's a good deal bigger, and imho a lot nicer looking! I'm also loving the all digital dash in addition to the center screen. But can a 2016 Model S handle full self driving? I do want that.

It is a little slower, 0-60 in ~4.2s, but that's still fast. But then the batteries would only have 4 more years left on warranty. Not good. Is this a stupid idea?? Hmmmm decisions, decisions. :mad:

I faced a similar decision when I bought my Model 3 Performance - I could have had a used/CPO Model S P85D for similar $$$. In the end, I decided that the far newer tech and platform, faster Supercharging and nimble feel were Model 3 advantages I couldn't overlook.

IIRC there have been several Model S 60/75 that have seen their Supercharging speeds be capped to something like 60KW maximum, which would be a deal-breaker for me. If you never need to Supercharge, it won't make a difference, but if you do, you'll spend more than twice as long at each stop (plus stop much more frequently) than you would in a Model 3 LR/Performance.
 
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Siciliano

Member
Apr 6, 2016
377
316
New York
Thank you everyone for all the insightful comments. I've decided to go for the M3 - probably performance - but I don't think I'd be against the LR+ with boost at the right price. Now it's just "hurry up and wait" until next Feb for my lease to be up!
 

Apprunner

Member
Jul 2, 2019
548
656
So-cal
Thank you everyone for all the insightful comments. I've decided to go for the M3 - probably performance - but I don't think I'd be against the LR+ with boost at the right price. Now it's just "hurry up and wait" until next Feb for my lease to be up!

Do yourself a favor and see what they have coming up on Battery Day in September. They may provide new trims for the Model 3 even. I'd imagine if they ever offer a 100kwh battery, it could come with a Ludicrous version (or even Plaid :D).
 
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Knightshade

Well-Known Member
Jul 31, 2017
13,107
21,612
NC
Do yourself a favor and see what they have coming up on Battery Day in September. They may provide new trims for the Model 3 even. I'd imagine if they ever offer a 100kwh battery, it could come with a Ludicrous version (or even Plaid :D).


Elon already debunked the 100kwh model 3 rumor.

What you're gonna see is Plaid S, future Plaid X... and then a bunch of talk about battery advances that'll scale up in the future.

3/Y will likely be dead last to get the sexiest new stuff- that'll be the plaid cars mentioned, then cybertruck and semi as they're most in need of it.
 

kysrsoze

Member
Oct 27, 2019
64
65
Los Angeles
I personally love the looks and the solid feel of driving an Audi. I'd driven a friend's 2017 S6, and although it was fast, it felt somewhat disconnected to me... more of a cruiser. My wife and I had also had an extreme amount of mechanical trouble with our Q5, but we decided to check out an S5 sportback anyway. It's a gorgeous car, was very good to drive and the interior is so nice. I then test drove the Genesis G70 3.3T, which was fantastic to drive and very quick, but it was REALLY cramped inside with basically no trunk. We started thinking about a used Model S b/c we don't like to pay for repairs and I liked the idea of never buying gas and driving to work in the HOV lanes. I test drove the S and really liked it, but it felt like more of a cruiser.

I wasn't quite so into the idea of a Model 3 (wasn't crazy about the spartan interior and considered it the "budget" Tesla), but they had the M3P available for a drive. Took it out and it drove and felt much better than the S - felt really solid and buttoned down with great handling. I finally hammered it and the acceleration scared the living daylights out of me. That was it. I put my deposit down that evening.

No regrets at all - driving the 3 feels like they fixed everything that was wrong about the S. The more i look at it, the more it grows on me. It's an absolute monster that doesn't need gas, has everything you need and the audio system sounds fantastic.
 

Dan203

Active Member
Jul 10, 2019
1,420
1,022
Northern Nevada
There is no way an ICE can match the feeling of a Tesla. ICE cars, no matter how many HP they have, have power bands so there is always a small lag while the revs increase. A Tesla is like driving a really fast golf cart. The acceleration is completely linear and tied directly to how hard you press the pedal. So as soon as you stomp it to the floor you're stuck to the seat. It's more like the launch of a roller coaster then any car you've ever driven.

You should go to the local Tesla store and drive one. Even if you buy used they'll let you take one, without a sales guy, for 30-40 minutes and you can play around with it. It's entirely no pressure. There aren’t even sales people really. If you do decide to buy one on the spot they have some people there that will help you pull up the website and order one, but they're not commissioned employees so they have no stake in what you order or even if you order. (other then wanting the company to succeed so they still have a job) And if you just say you're going to order at home they'll say "have a good day" and watch you walk out the door.
 

Dan203

Active Member
Jul 10, 2019
1,420
1,022
Northern Nevada
Main difference is the Tesla has more wind/road noise and the ride is not at sophisticated comapred to a C-class or 3-series. IMO

I agree on the wind noise, but my Model 3 actually handles the bends better than my 340i did. And the 340i had the fancy track package with adaptive suspension and variable steering.

But the wind/road noise in the Tesla is pretty bad and probably my biggest complaint about the car.
 

holmgang

Active Member
Sep 9, 2019
1,326
1,458
eu
There is no way an ICE can match the feeling of a Tesla. ICE cars, no matter how many HP they have, have power bands so there is always a small lag while the revs increase. A Tesla is like driving a really fast golf cart. The acceleration is completely linear and tied directly to how hard you press the pedal. So as soon as you stomp it to the floor you're stuck to the seat. It's more like the launch of a roller coaster then any car you've ever driven.

From a seat of the pants perspective, Tesla actually feels a lot like a modern turbo car where the turbo lag has been minimized. If you exempt say the first 200ms for boost to build, theres a rich swell of thrust that gradually tapers off -- over a single gear for a turbo car, and continuously for a Tesla (since it only IS a single-gear).

It's opposite of a naturally aspirated car where the revs need to pile up to get matching acceleration.

Like a 911 Turbo vs 911 GT3. It's 2 different types of thrill, and some people prefer 1 over the other. The Tesla has thrust in the manner of the Turbo, but absent any noise, which in itself gives a sense of satisfaction sometimes as a silent ninja car squirting along the road
 
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Oct 28, 2019
105
66
Ridgewood NJ
I agree on the wind noise, but my Model 3 actually handles the bends better than my 340i did. And the 340i had the fancy track package with adaptive suspension and variable steering.

But the wind/road noise in the Tesla is pretty bad and probably my biggest complaint about the car.
I agree the road noise is notable on the M3, especially the wind - it's hard to say if, say, a BMW 3 series doesn't also have wind noise, however as the engine may overwhelm that noise.
 

Dan203

Active Member
Jul 10, 2019
1,420
1,022
Northern Nevada
From a seat of the pants perspective, Tesla actually feels a lot like a modern turbo car where the turbo lag has been minimized. If you exempt say the first 200ms for boost to build, theres a rich swell of thrust that gradually tapers off -- over a single gear for a turbo car, and continuously for a Tesla (since it only IS a single-gear).

It's opposite of a naturally aspirated car where the revs need to pile up to get matching acceleration.

Like a 911 Turbo vs 911 GT3. It's 2 different types of thrill, and some people prefer 1 over the other. The Tesla has thrust in the manner of the Turbo, but absent any noise, which in itself gives a sense of satisfaction sometimes as a silent ninja car squirting along the road

I got a NA BMW as a loaner once. Even though it was technically slower the acceleration felt better because it was more linear. My Model 3 Performance has the best of both world. Linear acceleration and stick you to the seat "boost".
 

EmOne

Member
Mar 28, 2020
218
171
Chicago
BTW, speaking of beemers...the 2019 440i xDrive Gran Coupe is also in the same price range, making the decision all the more difficult. :confused:
Two points:
1.) If it's a car, its a bimmer, even in Germany; a beemer/beamer is a BMW motorcycle in the UK and the US (pardon my OCD.)
2.) I'm pretty sure I own the most fun model BMW has made in last 10 years (Series 1M Coupe) and am on verge of selling it; compared to my M3P+, it feels like, and is, ancient tech. More importantly, the M3 is MORE FUN in real (city traffic) world of living in Chicago. I can't wait for my first winter with winter tires in place; I anticipate it will be the ultimate fun time dancing around the ICE cars with their all-seasons. I held off selling the 1M for the stick and the noise, but I am now sold on the silence and the one-pedal, guilt-free, instant response driving experience that also includes a real back seat, much better music then the lame HK, and excellent nav. The only car I have owned that came close for fun (but absurdly impractical for the street) was a Porsche GT3 997.1 which achieved the fun by having impeccable "feel" in all the controls and a musical sound track better than anything this side of a Ferrari.
 
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hcdavis3

HCD3
Supporting Member
Mar 3, 2019
2,292
1,498
02571
From a seat of the pants perspective, Tesla actually feels a lot like a modern turbo car where the turbo lag has been minimized. If you exempt say the first 200ms for boost to build, theres a rich swell of thrust that gradually tapers off -- over a single gear for a turbo car, and continuously for a Tesla (since it only IS a single-gear).

It's opposite of a naturally aspirated car where the revs need to pile up to get matching acceleration.

Like a 911 Turbo vs 911 GT3. It's 2 different types of thrill, and some people prefer 1 over the other. The Tesla has thrust in the manner of the Turbo, but absent any noise, which in itself gives a sense of satisfaction sometimes as a silent ninja car squirting along the road
Minimized? Eliminated!
 

dgo3

Member
Oct 5, 2018
48
43
Durango, CO
Love my stealth 3PD. The acceleration never gets old :) As others have said, wind and road noise is probably the most noticeable difference coming from an Audi. Interior materials are not as nice in the 3. QA is a mixed bag. There's less to go wrong on a 3, but I'm on my second turn signal stalk that no longer stops after 3 blinks for a lane change, and Tesla replaced the original windshield when a stress fracture developed with no impact. Then again, the Audi you had to pull the fuse every now and then because the radio would lock up, and as it got older, expensive stuff broke regularly. All things considered, I'll take the simplicity and acceleration. Never going back to ICE.
 

Apprunner

Member
Jul 2, 2019
548
656
So-cal
I got a NA BMW as a loaner once. Even though it was technically slower the acceleration felt better because it was more linear. My Model 3 Performance has the best of both world. Linear acceleration and stick you to the seat "boost".

The turbo ones are much faster but the NA models have better throttle response. The EVs have the best and most instant response so feel the best compared to ICE. Its no contest really in terms of drivetrain feel. The only issue is the weight so lightweight applications are still better with ICE.
 

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