Cars in production!!! Anyone in the desert area let me know and we can have a huge M3 meet up so people can check it.out. I’ll set it up. Likely around Christmas time.
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Model 3 LR range - anyone check it out?
- Thread starter Electroman
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- Driving Dynamics Model 3
T34ME
Active Member
Congrats Zack! Thank you for your kind invitation. I have never seen the Model 3 in person and I would be pleased to take you up on your offer around Christmas/New Years. Please keep us posted with regards to time and location, maybe at one of the SuC's?
omgwtfbyobbq
Active Member
I'd love to see the car too, and I'll probably be in Yucca Valley near Christmas.
Not necessarily a huge difference. Certainly more stopping / connecting / disconnecting / getting back on the road overhead time, but LR is supercharger-capped up to around 50% SoC. SR would be expected to only start to decline around 1/3 SoC. So if you tend to pull in around, say, 8% SoC, the first 25% is exactly the same speed Around 50% there should be a difference grown to around 2/3rds the speed (then remain constant), and a 50% charge ends at 58%. So that's full speed for 25%, an average of 5/6th speed from for 17%, and an average of 2/3rds speed for 8%.
Now, the higher the SoC that you arrive at and the higher the SoC that you leave at, the greater the difference would be. In SR, you should obviously stop at every supercharger rather than skipping some, and time your arrival at as low of a SoC as you feel comfortable with.
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ElecFan
Member
In this thread an M3 owner is 'confident' to reach 310 miles while commuting (240 kWh/mi). At 80mph his range is 265 miles (260 kWh/mi).
I just mocked up a couple of routes in ABRP to compare the short range battery to the long range battery. I used 100% reference speed, the default consumption, and a charger arrival goal of 10%.
The results are interesting, both from a charging time perspective as well as total trip distance. The long range battery enables more direct routes on some trips, while the short range sometimes has to deviate from the shortest path because current supercharger spacing exceeds the vehicle's range. None of the trips take overnight destination charging into account.
Tampa, FL to Woodbridge, VA:
Short range: 3 hours, 39 minutes charging. 894 miles
Long range: 2 hours, 8 minutes charging. 890 miles
Lexington, KY to Salt Lake City, UT:
Short range: 9 hours, 1 minute charging. 1,758 miles
Long range: 5 hours, 42 minutes charging. 1,682 miles
Springfield, VA to Bellingham, WA:
Short range: 15 hours, 18 minutes charging. 3,030 miles
Long range: 9 hours, 35 minutes charging. 2,915 miles
I'm certainly not presenting these numbers as gospel, but I think they do a pretty good job of illustrating how much of a time difference battery capacity can make on a road trip. Winter will also exaggerate these differences quite a bit.
jschwefel
Tesla fan/TSLA, Model Y and Cybertruck owner.
Wow! I’m surprised it makes that much of a difference. Thank you for doing this. Can you help me with ABRP? I did a search, but didn’t find anything?
http://abetterrouteplanner.com
It's one of several route planning sites/apps for Tesla, created by TMC member @blincoln
It's pretty self-explanatory. You select where you want to go, what type of vehicle you're driving, and what custom settings you want to use, and it figures out the optimal route and calculates distance, driving time, and charging time. Note that unlike EV Trip Planner, it does not take temperature into account.
jschwefel
Tesla fan/TSLA, Model Y and Cybertruck owner.
suwaneedad
Member
Plugging these use cases into ABRP will be illuminating! It is a great site that I have never known to exist until tonight. I can officially trash my crappy excel attempts at trip planning for my upcoming M3!
suwaneedad
Member
Tesla owners, is there a (good) reason not to begin (occasional) road trips from 100% SOC? I can't imagine leaving my home below 100% when I'm tackling a long (day-long) drive. I assume occasional 100% SOC isn't going to hurt the battery by any measure, and the extra ~10% at the start of a long trip can pay off throughout the day via shorter charging stops, or at a minimum by mitigating range anxiety. What am I missing here?
X Fan
Active Member
Huh?
My X now gets 252 Range miles but yet I’ve been up and down the East Coast on 500mile+ drives 20 times. Best long distance travel on market.
LR 3 will actually be better.
X Fan
Active Member
Read the S & X forums; lots of info there.
I haven’t seen the details behind the new battery structure but the rule of thumb for old is to not go above 90% ( 80 is the preference of some ) except when going on a trip that requires 100% (and then you should leave within an hour of full charge ).
Lots of people charge frequently to full, and their batteries still run just fine. It's not something to worry about at all for the occasional trip. Don't inconvenience yourself for no good reason.
We are saying the same thing. I said LR is a road-trip car. SR is a comfortable city car.
The short range version will be okay on road trips, but it will require more planning, more time and might require that you take a different route than the one you would normally choose. If you live in a warm climate and take trips infrequently or don’t venture more than a few hundred miles from home very often, it’ll be just fine.
Someone who travels longer distances more frequently will want to strongly consider the LR. Living in a cold climate would make the LR attractive, as well.
Many people are happy with their 75 kWh Model S and X vehicles. There are also many people who have upgraded to 100 kWh vehicles in search of more range.
The $9,000 long range option is a tough pill to swallow on an “affordable” car but it has a lot to offer to those who will take advantage of it. It certainly isn’t for everyone.
Someone who travels longer distances more frequently will want to strongly consider the LR. Living in a cold climate would make the LR attractive, as well.
Many people are happy with their 75 kWh Model S and X vehicles. There are also many people who have upgraded to 100 kWh vehicles in search of more range.
The $9,000 long range option is a tough pill to swallow on an “affordable” car but it has a lot to offer to those who will take advantage of it. It certainly isn’t for everyone.
For some reason I can't run A Better Routeplanner here, so I can't see what exactly it's showing (for example, what departure state of charge they're using). However:
I find these numbers suspect. Let's just take the last one for example. That's 918 minutes vs. 575 minutes. That's 60% more time. Yet LR only has 48% more battery capacity (46 cells per brick rather than 31), and SR should be a couple percent more efficient. So even if we completely ignore charger current limiting, that should be pessimistic. But current limiting is real; while LR is capable of 525A, current is limited at around 2/3rds that much because superchargers can't deliver that much; LR is stuck at a long, steady plateau up to nearly ~50% SoC. This should further weaken the difference between the two. SR should also be current limited, albeit for a notably shorter period of time before it has to start tapering; indeed, if all charging was done during this "both are current limited" window, SR would actually charge a couple percent faster due to its lighter weight (and thus couple percent greater efficiency). Now, that won't happen because of A) supercharger spacing (aka, you're not going to charge for only say 40 miles each time), and B) there's a couple minutes overhead to arrive at a charger, connect, and depart each time (aka, if you actually did charge for only ~40 miles per stop, your overhead would be killer); but it should still not be anywhere near such a difference as 60%.
A 30 minute LR stop from a low SoC should add maybe 200mi. A 30 minute SR stop should add around 150mi. Add say 5 minutes overhead to each, so that's 200 miles in 35 minutes vs. 150 miles in 35 minutes, or 342 mph vs. 300 mph (see here). That's not a huge charge speed difference. And that's assuming the same charge length; the optimal for SR will be slightly shorter charges (but we'll ignore that). Taking the (surprisingly very different) trip lengths on ABRP into account, LR charging at 342 mph (including stop overhead, and subtracting the initial charge, and adding a 10% SoC arrival buffer) would be 7,7h charging. The surprisingly longer trip for SR becomes 9,4h charging. A 1,7h charging time difference in 43,3 hours of driving time - not nearly the level of difference that they portray. And this is really best case - assuming that you never have to share a charger. A throttled SR will almost always charge a couple percent faster (mph/kph) than a throttled LR, since they both get the same current, but SR should be a couple percent more efficient.
How can these ABRP numbers be explained?
(The ratios on the others: the first is 219 vs 128 minutes (71% more time) and the second 541 vs. 342 minutes (58% more time))
Even if we take ABRP at face value: if we run the numbers on the first trip (the one that they show the maximal difference on), assuming driving at an average of 70mph (sometimes more, sometimes less), that's 766 minutes driving time. So 985 vs. 894 minutes, or a 10% difference in travel time. This assumes of course US highway speeds and energy consumption (for example, at the much slower speeds where I am, driving times are longer, while energy consumption is less and thus charging stops shorter and/or further spaced apart).
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