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Model 3 No longer powers down to reboot?

Fernand

Active Member
Mar 22, 2019
1,557
1,566
Northern california
I used to do a full reboot after some upgrades by putting my phone in airplane mode, and sitting calmly in the car after tapping "power off" on-screen. You could hear mirrors fold, everything gradually power off, then contactors clunk release after about 2 minutes.
After waiting another minute or so, touching the brake would gradually restore full functionality. It was clear everything had rebooted.

Now a two finger hold on both buttons still reboots the screen computer.
But now Power Off doesn't get to the point of the contactors releasing. Even the mirrors don't fold!
No, Sentry is not active at my home location. Car is not set to maintain cabin temp.

Pressing the brake instantly brings everything back. The car never rebooted.

Has anyone else seen this?
is it a difference in the software or a malfunction?
How to get to a full power off?
 
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jjrandorin

Moderator, Model 3, Tesla Energy Forums
Nov 28, 2018
10,380
11,723
Riverside Co. CA
Maybe try "sitting calmly OUTSIDE" the vehicle, instead of inside of it? I power off my car after every update, but I dont sit in it to do so. I open the drivers door, sit in the drivers seat (while leaving door open) trigger a power off from the menu, get out through the opened door, then close it and go in the house.

I let it sit in that state until I am going to use the car, usually some hours later.

I would suggest doing the same thing you always do, except instead of sitting in the car, pull up a chair outside the car and sit there and check (since you would be sitting there in the car anyway) and see how long it takes.


Just throwing stuff at the wall, it would not be beyond the realm of possibility for the car NOT to fully shut down because there was weight in the seat, for example. No idea if thats the case, but might be good to remove it from being a possibility. Let us know.
 

Fernand

Active Member
Mar 22, 2019
1,557
1,566
Northern california
@EVRider-FL that wasn't the question. We're looking at Power Off behavior.

@jjrandorin I tried what you suggested. Sitting in car, set phone to airplane mode. Stopped media playing. Tapped "Power off" in Safety page. Screen went black. I exited car and closed door. Mirrors folded and horn beeped like when walking away. Stood around for about 5-6 min. Never heard contactors. Turned phone back to normal. Door handle responded immediately and screen instantly popped up to where it had been. Car evidently had never powered off. The screen computer hadn't rebooted either it seems. Think you can try it and report? Thanks.
 
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jjrandorin

Moderator, Model 3, Tesla Energy Forums
Nov 28, 2018
10,380
11,723
Riverside Co. CA
@EVRider-FL that wasn't the question. We're looking at Power Off behavior.

@jjrandorin I tried what you suggested. Sitting in car, set phone to airplane mode. Stopped media playing. Tapped "Power off" in Safety page. Screen went black. I exited car and closed door. Mirrors folded and horn beeped like when walking away. Stood around for about 5-6 min. Never heard contactors. Turned phone back to normal. Door handle responded immediately and screen instantly popped up to where it had been. Car evidently had never powered off. The screen computer hadn't rebooted either it seems. Think you can try it and report? Thanks.

Ill give it a shot when I get a chance, but I have never set out there to see how long it takes for the contactors to open. Tesla tells people to power off for "2-3 minutes" but I always thought it was longer, like as long as it takes the car to normally go to sleep.

In any case, i will try it when I get some time.
 

smatthew

Active Member
Jun 9, 2018
1,290
2,085
CA Bay Area
I used to do a full reboot after some upgrades by putting my phone in airplane mode, and sitting calmly in the car after tapping "power off" on-screen. You could hear mirrors fold, everything gradually power off, then contactors clunk release after about 2 minutes.
After waiting another minute or so, touching the brake would gradually restore full functionality. It was clear everything had rebooted.

Now a two finger hold on both buttons still reboots the screen computer.
But now Power Off doesn't get to the point of the contactors releasing. Even the mirrors don't fold!
No, Sentry is not active at my home location. Car is not set to maintain cabin temp.

Pressing the brake instantly brings everything back. The car never rebooted.

Has anyone else seen this?
is it a difference in the software or a malfunction?
How to get to a full power off?

My vehicle has been doing this for about a year. I'm out of warranty and doubt paying the diagnostics fee will uncover anything.

I've tried powering off from outside the vehicle with no change in behavior.

I wouldn't be surprised if this behavior is related to a degraded 12V battery. 2018 with original 12V battery - I feel like I'm living on borrowed time.
 
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Fernand

Active Member
Mar 22, 2019
1,557
1,566
Northern california
@smatthew thanks. We both have 2018 babies, though mine is low mileage. I too started thinking that it might be related to the 12v battery. It only started doing this a few months ago.

In that case, maybe this is the 12v battery early warning that we've long been dreaming of!

I've also had a couple of occasions where after waiting several minutes in a traffic jam in Hold I get a contactor dance as I go to resume forward motion.
I think I'll ask the SC to check this out in a couple of weeks.
 

jjrandorin

Moderator, Model 3, Tesla Energy Forums
Nov 28, 2018
10,380
11,723
Riverside Co. CA
Ill give it a shot when I get a chance, but I have never set out there to see how long it takes for the contactors to open. Tesla tells people to power off for "2-3 minutes" but I always thought it was longer, like as long as it takes the car to normally go to sleep.

In any case, i will try it when I get some time.

@Fernand (and thread). I just tested this on my own 2018 model 3P. I opened the door, sat down (with door open) tapped power off, then got out of the still open door. I set up a chair in my garage in front of my car, but took the phone inside my home where it normally is, on an end table by my sofa.

I did NOT turn on airplane mode, or do anything else with my phone special other than take it in the house like I always do.

After I took the phone inside, I immediately went back out and sat in the chair in front of my car (taking my laptop so I could still work) and waited for the contactor noise. It was almost 11 minutes, but I heard the contactors thunk after that 11 minute time frame. No idea if its normally longer or shorter than that, as I dont normally sit out here and listen for it / wait for it.
 

Fernand

Active Member
Mar 22, 2019
1,557
1,566
Northern california
@jjrandorin Thank you! :)

I had never previously had to wait 11 minutes, it typically took maybe 5-8 minutes. But now even waiting past 10 minutes I haven't gotten any contactor clunks. Something seems to have changed. It could be newer software, some random factor, or a malfunction.

I guess I must try waiting much longer and see. Also maybe try with the charging cable connected.

I'm afraid of missing the sounds if I'm outside the car. The reason for airplane mode was so you can be inside and not appear to be ready to drive.
 

jjrandorin

Moderator, Model 3, Tesla Energy Forums
Nov 28, 2018
10,380
11,723
Riverside Co. CA
@jjrandorin Thank you! :)

I had never previously had to wait 11 minutes, it typically took maybe 5-8 minutes. But now even waiting past 10 minutes I haven't gotten any contactor clunks. Something seems to have changed. It could be newer software, some random factor, or a malfunction.

I guess I must try waiting much longer and see. Also maybe try with the charging cable connected.

I'm afraid of missing the sounds if I'm outside the car. The reason for airplane mode was so you can be inside and not appear to be ready to drive.

There could be some behavior that sees weight in the drivers seat and prevents sleep (I have no idea, just speculating why sitting in the car would not be the best thing for testing this).

Also, my charging cable was connected (wall connector), for the purposes of full disclosure. I am still on my original 12v battery but have been wanting to buy one from tesla so I dont get stuck with the 12v failures that seem to occur in vehicles our age.

While WFH policies during covid have ment that I work mostly from home, when I need to go into the office I "need" to go in there, and dont want to deal with a possible failing 12v. I think I will re run this test after the mobile ranger installs my 12v and report back.
 

brulaz

Member
Feb 4, 2021
100
29
Ontario Canada
Have never heard the contactor clunk, so tried shutting down while sitting inside, and it behaved just like the OP's car. No contactor opening/clunk, no mirror fold; so after 23min I gave up.
And this is with a June 2021 M3LR with the latest software upgrade, so the 12V battery should be good.
Will try sitting outside like jjrandorin if it ever stops raining here. Maybe then I'll hear it.
 

jjrandorin

Moderator, Model 3, Tesla Energy Forums
Nov 28, 2018
10,380
11,723
Riverside Co. CA
As I mentioned, I just had tesla replace my 12V battery, "pre-emptively". My model 3 is a 2018 (model 3P) as I think I mentioned earlier in this thread. No real issues with my battery, I just have read enough about 12v sudden failures that I figured I would pay for the work myself, vs waiting for it to fail and then doing it under warranty.

As for costs, the battery from tesla is $85, and the labor for the mobile tech to do it was 19.95. Total with tax was $121 and change. That price is similar to what I last paid to have a battery changed by AAA roadside assistance 15 ish years ago, when I had a dead battery in my old Kia Sorrento.

Batteries in the BMWs I have had last longer in general, but are AGM type and need to be programmed to the car. BMW dealers charge like 400 for the battery (not counting actual M cars) and like 1/2 an hour of labor, it ends up being between 400-600 to get a battery on a BMW unless you download tools to program it yourself, etc.

I find $121 and change "out the door" in So. Cal. for a battery replacement done upon request, in my driveway without me having to go anywhere, extremely reasonable.

Back on this thread topic, I will repeat my test sometime this weekend for you guys and see if the time frame changes.
 

brulaz

Member
Feb 4, 2021
100
29
Ontario Canada
I tried sitting outside and waiting a couple of times after locking up the car with the passcard.

First time I heard a distinct clunk after only a few minutes. But next time I gave up after 15 min. Seems pretty variable.

To be sure I hadn't just missed the clunk the second time, I popped the rear seat and flipped the grey lever ALL the way down. Definitely heard the clunk then. Also got an interesting error message saying the car couldn't be driven. But as it still had 12V from the little battery I could close the doors properly and lock it up.
 

Sackmonkey

Member
Jun 7, 2021
32
53
Clarkston, MI
I tried sitting outside and waiting a couple of times after locking up the car with the passcard.

First time I heard a distinct clunk after only a few minutes. But next time I gave up after 15 min. Seems pretty variable.

To be sure I hadn't just missed the clunk the second time, I popped the rear seat and flipped the grey lever ALL the way down. Definitely heard the clunk then. Also got an interesting error message saying the car couldn't be driven. But as it still had 12V from the little battery I could close the doors properly and lock it up.
Sorry if this is a dumb question, but what does the gray lever under the seat do? This is the first I've heard of it. I tried a quick search but came up empty.
 

brulaz

Member
Feb 4, 2021
100
29
Ontario Canada
Sorry if this is a dumb question, but what does the gray lever under the seat do? This is the first I've heard of it. I tried a quick search but came up empty.
There's a connector under the rear seat that feeds 12V to the high voltage contactor relay. The connector has a grey plastic lever that holds it in place when up, and disconnects 12V from the relay when it's pushed all the way down. You can hear the contactor open when you do this, if it's closed.

At least that's my understanding ...
 

Fernand

Active Member
Mar 22, 2019
1,557
1,566
Northern california
I tried asking at the local Service Center. Although the on-line user manual clearly describes "power cycling the vehicle", and we've seen and heard it, the chief front desk seat warmer said "these cars don't ever power down, I don't think". These are complicated machines. I do wish they'd fully train these people.

He also said replacing the 12 volt battery preemptively is just a waste, because what they have observed is adequate pre-calamity warnings in nearly all 12v battery failures.
 
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jjrandorin

Moderator, Model 3, Tesla Energy Forums
Nov 28, 2018
10,380
11,723
Riverside Co. CA
I tried asking at the local Service Center. Although the on-line user manual clearly describes "power cycling the vehicle", and we've seen it, the chief desk-sitter said "these cars don't ever power down, I don't think". I wish they'd fully train these people.

He also said replacing the 12 volt battery preemptively isn't sensible, because they have observed adequate pre-calamity warnings in nearly all 12v battery failures.
I realize that forums are places where people go to report problems, many times, but there have been enough "12v failure" reports here that I am not sure I can agree with SC on their above statement that there were "adequate pre calamity warnings in nearly all 12v battery failures".
 

jjrandorin

Moderator, Model 3, Tesla Energy Forums
Nov 28, 2018
10,380
11,723
Riverside Co. CA
@Fernand (and thread). I just tested this on my own 2018 model 3P. I opened the door, sat down (with door open) tapped power off, then got out of the still open door. I set up a chair in my garage in front of my car, but took the phone inside my home where it normally is, on an end table by my sofa.

I did NOT turn on airplane mode, or do anything else with my phone special other than take it in the house like I always do.

After I took the phone inside, I immediately went back out and sat in the chair in front of my car (taking my laptop so I could still work) and waited for the contactor noise. It was almost 11 minutes, but I heard the contactors thunk after that 11 minute time frame. No idea if its normally longer or shorter than that, as I dont normally sit out here and listen for it / wait for it.

I just repeated the above test the exact same way as noted above, with a new 12V battery installed by a mobile ranger a few days ago (on my dime).

Some notes, even though its said above:
  • Test was performed by shutting down the vehicle, and exiting the vehicle through a door left open before the power off command was pushed.
  • Phone was taken away from the vehicle (inside my house to its normal position).
  • Phone was not placed in airplane mode
  • No one, is in the vehicle
  • I am sitting in front of the vehicle, but nothing is keeping the vehicle awake (no phone proximity, no weight in seat, etc)
All of this is same as the last test.

The last time, the "contactor thunk" was 11 minutes approximately. This time, it was approximately 4-5 minutes. The only variables that are different this time vs when I tested last time:
  • The date (these tests were not done on the same day)
  • The first test was done with the 12v battery car was delivered with in dec of 2018, this test was done with a new battery installed a few days ago.
  • Both batteries are tesla OE equipment, I did not purchase an after market battery. The replacement battery was the standard $85 part tesla installs.
I thought it was interesting the car shut down twice as fast, but dont know if that means anything. I mentioned I would repeat the test after the new battery install, so just got around to that.
 

Fernand

Active Member
Mar 22, 2019
1,557
1,566
Northern california
@jjrandorin thanks. The main thing is that you DO get to the contactor thunks. My next test will be to wait longer. Another would be to do it with the charger cable connected.

Of course the Tesla chair-warmer was just blowing smoke. It's a nuisance, they're supposed to have info. Instead they are like the guys who answer questions for an Amazon listing with "I don't know" or just make stuff up and confuse people. They mean well, but sure could use more training.
 
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Fernand

Active Member
Mar 22, 2019
1,557
1,566
Northern california
I had the car in for service and what they told me is that power-down reboot is something they have disabled in the software, allegedly it's not "something that should be done casually by the user. The mobile service people can show you how to do it". Maybe those who can still do it have stumbled on some detail that enables the secret way to do it. Maybe telepathy. Or where you sit, exactly.

That's a bit strange. No, very strange. The last story I heard was that "these cars never fully power down".
Now it's "it shouldn't be done, but there's a way someone might show you".

They charged me $68 to replace the cabin air filters because debris had gotten in.

It suggests that maybe those screens you can buy to cover the inlets might be a very good idea, as long as they aren't tight filters that could strain the fans.
.
 

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