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Jason Bourne
Member
I'm not a fan per se (no pun intended), but Dyson fans move a good amount of air without the noise. I only mention this to illustrate that there is some improvements to be had if a company were so inclined to invest in them.
garsh
Re Member
During one of the reveal-night test drives, one of the engineers stated that the interior wouldn't change much. From this, I assume that the steering wheel will change, the mount for the display will change (I hope - it looks too easy to break), and a HUD will probably be added. But it sounds like the ventilation system (lack of vents) is a design feature that they plan to keep.
If I'm able to locate that video, I'll add a link.
jelloslug
Active Member
Musk said just the opposite. The only thing I remember an engineer stating on the reveal night videos is that the drivetrain would not change much.
gjunky
Trifecta: Solar and both cars are EVs
In the hope that Tesla will read it and think about their (possible) design a few more times. We own a model X and love the car but there are definitely aspects of that car where it is form over function. The small air vents on the passenger side is one. The panoramic windshield (tinting) another. I am glad they provided a sun screen for the summer as it is way to bright without it. Now that it is "winter" here, we removed it and it think it is wonderful.
As to the temperature within the car: the heat from the sun on the car makes driving it without direct air on you uncomfortable for the first 30+ minutes (at least) until the entire car is cooled off. I use pre-cooling whenever I can but direct radiation from the sun on your body can only be offset with direct cooling. Not a problem in CA but we don't all live there.
I know this all sounds like complaining about a feature we don't know about yet but what can be done once the car is completed?
BluestarE3
Active Member
Since Dyson bought a battery company (Sakti3), maybe Tesla should buy a vacuum cleaner/fan company and develop a fan/turbine that can be raised into position from the frunk when the car is in motion. This device will circulate air within the cabin and recharge the battery at the same time. Forget about mounting expensive solar panels on the car roof, this wind turbine will generate electricity even at night or while parked in a shaded space.
Elon, I believe, mentioned that the lack of the instrument cluster display allowed much better airlflow to the driver. Imagine vents where the instrument cluster is on the Model S. The air would pass through the steering wheel directly at the driver. That would be a great upgrade from nearly every car with vents on either side of the instrument cluster that blow air mostly at your hands on the sides of the steering wheel.
He was pretty clear that the airflow would be improved. This isn't a form over function thing. It is an improvement to airflow/comfort decision. Just because there would be a single line/design element that houses all the ventilation doesn't mean it won't be adjustable or have different zones.
Edit: Mods should also change the click-bait title of this thread. It simply isn't true -- there will most certainly be dashboard air vents standard. (Or does standard mean traditional style?)
He was pretty clear that the airflow would be improved. This isn't a form over function thing. It is an improvement to airflow/comfort decision. Just because there would be a single line/design element that houses all the ventilation doesn't mean it won't be adjustable or have different zones.
Edit: Mods should also change the click-bait title of this thread. It simply isn't true -- there will most certainly be dashboard air vents standard. (Or does standard mean traditional style?)
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I think that the thread title "No standard dashboard air vents" means "not the traditional style, though it can conceivably be interpreted to mean that the base Model 3 will not come with any dashboard vents at all. But that would be unprecedented in the automotive industry as far as I know, and not in a good way.
When you want to call something to the attention of the moderators, used the "REPORT" link at the bottom of the post in question. Given that TMC has hundreds of posts every day the moderators can't read them all. Not on their salary...
Zaphod
Galaxy President (former)
The design ship has sailed long ago I'm sure. At this point, something like redesign of HVAC isn't going to happen. While there may be tweaks made during the testing that is hopefully occurring now, substantial design changes just can't be done. Too many ramifications are involved.
ProphetM
Member
As someone who lives in a very hot climate, I find it absolutely matters how the air flows. Even when the cabin air gets down to an acceptable level, on a really hot day it is often necessary to have at least some air blowing directly onto the two people in front, to be comfortable. There is just a lot of heat coming in through the windows and windshield.
It's not hard to get an even flow along the entire length of a slot - all you have to do is have an outlet that is a lot smaller than the source tube, and then build up enough pressure in the source to choke the flow (drive a sonic velocity at the outlet mouth) - about 12 psig should get you there. I'm pretty sure this is how dyson fans generate their initial flow to entrain the rest of the air.
Choked flow - Wikipedia
WileyTheMan
Peanut Gallery Member
Not to mention there are some people that simply like airflow. I'd be hard-pressed to believe Tesla would do away with the HVAC system as we know it. Also, Elon was doing his best to keep the bells and whistles in the Model 3 down to a minimum, so why fix something that isn't broken?
JeffK
Well-Known Member
Because some of us are trying to figure out whether or not to buy this car, and when tesla keeps eliminating basic features in favor of more complicated and less effective "solutions" it is troublesome.
Air vents were perfected technology.
Stereo volume knob was perfected technology.
An instrument cluster in front of the driver was perfected technology.
Doors that open sideways were perfected technology.
Yes the drivetrain is awesome, but Tesla seems to have the habit of trying to improve other things that can't be improved, and making them worse in the process. I wonder if musk isn't addicted to reinventing the wheel, and if that will be tesla's downfall.
I always found they kinda sucked, at least for the driver. Particularly the ones on either side of the instrument cluster -- every car I've ever owned, including the Model S, they blow half their air on my hands/steering wheel, and not enough gets to my body. So my hands end up freezing from too much AC, or I direct them away from my hands and then I don't get enough air on my body. Lower hand position on steering wheel helps, but still mucho airflow interrupted by the wheel. Heat does better from the footwell vents, so not much of a problem there.
Tesla isn't eliminating the air vents in the Model 3. They are just a different style. Instead of individual-looking vents, you get one clean line / design element that contains all the vents. The Model S has 5 styles of air vents. 4 different ones on the dash, and the rear one on the center console. That is 5 parts they need to manufacture and stock. Ridiculous, and expensive. The goal of Model 3 is to be a cheaper car, so they will need to eliminate cost, and they can do that by getting rid of superfluous stuff like having 5 unique parts for air vents alone. (Most cars try to use 2 or 3 air vent parts, so they get some volume and lower costs)
It is even better to have a dedicated scroll wheel on the steering wheel that controls volume, like the Model S and X.
Sort of. It is in the ideal place for some air vents focused on the driver (which is one of the reasons they removed it, to improve airflow). A good HUD would be better (most HUDs aren't great), so if they solved that for Model 3 I'd welcome it. If there is no HUD and no display directly in front of the driver that will be weak. (Unless the car will be self driving, in which case all the info it displays will be moot, as you won't be driving.)
The Model S and Model 3 have those.
3Victoria
Active Member
Hmmm, my Mini has an encoder for its volume, but also steering-wheel buttons. UI choices change with technology. Since the steering-wheel has buttons, an encoder works better than the traditional volume control.
EV-lutioin
Active Member
Anything to improve air flow and defrost in cars would be welcome. My 2012 VW Jetta is horrible, it fogs up all the time and never clears. My MX is much, much better. Keep engineering good ideas Tesla!!
As the OP who started this thread, the goal was simply to start some general discussion on the HVAC topic. It wasn't intended to be negative but rather to point out that Tesla was approaching HVAC design differently then any car maker had done before. Including Tesla based on the standard dashboard vents found in the S & X. That is one of the best things about Tesla they don't accept the status quo. With all the Model 3 threads since the unveil I don't believe this topic has been covered so rather then re-rehashing old topics how about something new to talk about!
Not sure what you mean by click-bait. I just meant the traditional vents that directed air at the driver and front passenger vs the defrost and the vents under the dashboard. It is a rather significant departure from what every other car maker has one. That alone makes it significant.
I think that the thread title "No standard dashboard air vents" means "not the traditional style, though it can conceivably be interpreted to mean that the base Model 3 will not come with any dashboard vents at all. But that would be unprecedented in the automotive industry as far as I know, and not in a good way.
...
As pointed out before the 3 will have dashboard vents below the front window but apparently no other vents.
Standard in the automotive sense (and this is a car forum) usually means "comes with the vehicle" so "No standard dashboard air vents" seemed to me to be a provocative title (hence click-bait), as the Model 3 will certainly have dashboard air vents standard, just like every other car on the market. I agree they aren't the traditional design. Apologies if I misinterpreted.
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