Model 3 not recommended and also highest owner satisfaction from Consumer Reports

[TANGO SUKKA]

I sometimes wonder how such a shitty company can produce such a beautiful and amazing product. It's pretty frustrating to get something so amazing, but then have to deal with the horrendous service centers/customer service depts. The company really has a lot of improving to do.

For that, I don't think I'll buy anything Tesla until they fix that. The post-sale experience is as important as the product.

 

[biotour]

It's a company run by engineers, not salespeople. I'm sure they didn't build these cars with the intention of making a bulk of their money from oil changes/transmission service/spark plugs/tune ups/etc like traditional auto companies.

 

[Syltann]

My 19 model 3 I got a few weeks back also just developed a stress crack on rear window >.<
This has not been fixed. Wonder if Tesla covers the repair?

 

[caskater47]

Model 3 is not recommended due to reliability concerns by owners, yet is the most satisfying car to all owners.

Consumer Reports reverses itself again, no longer recommends Tesla Model 3

Tesla's Model 3 was named the most satisfying car by Consumer Reports

--

This just tells me the Model 3 is very hot, yet also very crazy. I do a lot of economic analysis but at the end of the day most decisions boil down to:

Does the HOT outweigh the CRAZY?

So Consumer reports doesn't recommend the car because they wouldn't recognize a prime Liz Hurley or a prime David Beckham twerking right in front of them because they are blind, need click-bait controversy, dumb or all of the above.

What say you fellow TMC'ers?

I'm extremely torn on this. I love my car. It's fun to drive, it's practical and I pay so much less in gas these days. It really is the best value for the money in terms of price and performance. But, my experience as a Tesla customer has been complete and total sh*t.

So when people now ask me this question I tell them it's like shopping at Fry's Electronics. As long as you go in knowing exactly what you want, and have 100% confidence in your decision before you arrive, and are okay with whatever you bought being discontinued the very next day the you'll be happy. If you have any uncertainty whatsoever then stay away. Stay very, very far away.

 

[EVDRVN]

Second M3 service visit in three months. This far- New dash, steering wheel, seat motor, cooling pump running for 6 hours and they say it's normal, hood realignment, new turn signal control unit, seat issues they say are normal, etc. 3,500 miles on the car. Also the usual paint issues of course. I don't expect to hold it anytime past the warranty. Once the Y comes out they can start the process again Also, the delivery specialist people lie through their teeth and CS points the finger at them and vice-versa. Even with things in writing they refuse to honor commitments. I have found service in my area to be excellent however.

The Tesla CS, marketing, and support organization is amateur hour, it is not an issue of just being overloaded it is about hiring inexperienced people to herd cats. No one has any authority or ability to address or solve issues that are not scripted or routine.

 

[EVM3]

voted!

 

[BoerumHill]

Tesla customers describe maddening problems with returns and refunds

 

[StellarRat]

I love our M3, but every interaction I’ve had with Tesla from pre-sales to delivery to service has been dreadful. It feels like they just hired a bunch of college students to run the company and gave them no training on how to do it. The high turnover at the exec level really leads me to believe that Elon is not the right guy to be running the company. He is a great visionary but he needs a President to handle the day to day operations of the company and he needs to hire one and then get our of their way so they can come in fix these things.

One of the things Musk said in the last earning conference call was that they were focusing on improving service. He/they obviously know there is a problem, so I'm hoping this is not a long term issue.

 

[MXWing]

One of the things Musk said in the last earning conference call was that they were focusing on improving service. He/they obviously know there is a problem, so I'm hoping this is not a long term issue.

What hurts Tesla and all public companies is they are disproportionately tied to reporting periods. Q3, Q4, Q1, etc.

I actually do not believe Tesla is losing significant customers due to poor service. At least not yet. If Tesla can eek out ANY profit Q1, Q2 they get S&P500 listing, short seller narrative is dead and they can stop the chaos of mass hiring and layoffs.

'm extremely torn on this. I love my car. It's fun to drive, it's practical and I pay so much less in gas these days. It really is the best value for the money in terms of price and performance. But, my experience as a Tesla customer has been complete and total sh*t.

So when people now ask me this question I tell them it's like shopping at Fry's Electronics. As long as you go in knowing exactly what you want, and have 100% confidence in your decision before you arrive, and are okay with whatever you bought being discontinued the very next day the you'll be happy. If you have any uncertainty whatsoever then stay away. Stay very, very far away.

Tesla really has no competition. People are delusional that in five years everyone will catch up to Tesla. Ok, say you do. It's 2024 and you matched the Model 3 of 2018.

It's intellectually dishonest to assume Tesla has NOTHING in 2024 over what it has now.

You MUST be happy with 1.) The car you take delivery of. 2.) Your neighbor will have a better, faster, cheaper Tesla than you.

 

[Glamisduner]

Maybe this will get tesla to clean up their act. If they don't other auto makers could easily destroy them. The other issue is parts availability, right now if you want something fixed out of warranty you HAVE to have tesla do it, or scavenge parts off ebay... Something like a simple broken clip could be an unreasonably expensive service visit.

While I love the car, it a bit of a rattle box for close to 80k... Starting to question my sanity of paying so much for something that rattles more than an econo box.

 

[NathanielHrnblwr]

The problem with other automakers is they have no battery strategy. They want to buy from LG Chem or Samsung. Who's going to hold the cards in that deal?

Cell makers block VW's planned battery production - electrive.com

They are so far behind in the game they not only need to R&D, they need to build the place to build them.

tl;dr Just because a company can build an ICE vehicle doesn't mean they can simply pivot and built and EV with the same ability and level of market penetration. Sourcing drive batteries and the associated R&D to manage them isn't like sourcing wheels and tires.

The biggest threat to Tesla in the near term is less direct competition but government lobbying to "level the playing field" for legacy auto makers.

 

[MXWing]

The biggest threat to Tesla in the near term is less direct competition but government lobbying to "level the playing field" for legacy auto makers.

Agreed 100% - and I’ll throw in a dig at legacy auto supporters, Tesla bears and those poor at Econ.

The thesis is legacy auto will make the transition to EV easier because they have their own “profits” to spend on R&D.

Profits are only profits if you book them. When you reinvest them, they become expenses. And the IRR and ROI isn’t going to be pretty.

Legacy auto only benefit is they won’t go bankrupt because at least it’s self financed. Well in theory anyway until they run into a few cliffs:

1.) The more EV they sell the more money they lose. Their EV sales cannibalizes their ICE sales.

2.) What shareholder wants to keep their money in teams that are in rebuilding mode?

3.) LG, Samsung etc need their profits...

4.) If Tesla self financed, raises equity through debt financing, dilutions - as long as they can do it they are in the fight. What EV do you want to bet against?

5.) The Supercharger and vehicle data moat is untouchable.

TLDR - betting against Tesla for the long term will make you poor.

 

[banned-66611]

1.) The more EV they sell the more money they lose. Their EV sales cannibalizes their ICE sales.

That's just silly. Selling an EV is not worse than selling an ICE. Right now it's better in fact, as it gives them early mover advantage.

2.) What shareholder wants to keep their money in teams that are in rebuilding mode?

Smart ones who see that 90% of the infrastructure is the same and they already have it running efficiently. The reason that Hyundai and Kia can give you more EV for less money is that they already have huge manufacturing capacity that churns out vehicles to a high standard, while Tesla is still ramping up both output and quality.

There is also no doubt that demand for batteries will continue to increase and LG/SKG seem to be to leading the pack with their pouch cells, so actually there is a lot of opportunity both to supply demand and to develop the technology right now.

5.) The Supercharger and vehicle data moat is untouchable.

The data seems to be largely worthless, given their lack of progress on FSD. The superchargers are great, where they exist. In the US they have a good network, in Europe... it really depends where you live. In many places there are better networks. It's actually kind of annoying that Tesla is happy to use networks built by other manufacturers and suppliers, but doesn't allow non-Teslas to access theirs.

 

[SO16]

I love my P3D but the company and it’s employees have alottttt to learn about customer service... just not good experiences so far... has my wife against buying a second one which was the original plan. I still want to but she says they tainted the buying of your dream car.. I want to argue but she is right.

So..... you are going to go with another car that you will be stuck with for years all because the buying experience in the beginning is a concern? Ok. To each their own.

 

[SO16]

500 sample size/145,000 built = 0.34%
~80,000/145,000 built = ~55% < 90 days old

new car < 1year old vs car > 1 year old

Thank you early adopters for helping bring on the BEV revolution.

PS- panel gaps still not a concern of mine. But with a used car, who would care.

I have never thought to myself while driving a gas car, the panel gaps are awesome! I just think....ugh.....this driving experience sucks compared to my MS.

Besides, if I look closely at gas cars, they too have panel gaps and paint defects.

 

[dmurphy]

I have never thought to myself while driving a gas car, the panel gaps are awesome! I just think....ugh.....this driving experience sucks compared to my MS.

Besides, if I look closely at gas cars, they too have panel gaps and paint defects.

... bingo. Spot on!

I'll be honest... as outsider-looking-in, I see some of the complaints here and think "wow.... complaining about that is really a thing?"

Should things be perfect? Of course, we'd all like that. Are they in the real world? Almost never.

I've had many cars - from 70s era Chevys to Nissans to Fords to various GM models, everything from Pontiac to Cadillac. Just did a little mental math - I've bought at least 10 new cars in my middle-aged lifespan, and I've never inspected panel gaps, not once - forget the used cars, even. Even my Cadillac isn't the kind of vehicle that's hand-assembled by artisan craftsmen.

Remember... "Perfect is the enemy of progress."

The Model 3 is a $40k car at its base model. Let's be real, in a world where a Chevy Malibu starts at $22k. You simply can't expect the precision and fit and finish of a Rolls Royce Phantom ... The Model 3 is a great value-for-dollar. It isn't perfect, but perfect will require another couple of zeros in the price.

 

[caskater47]

So..... you are going to go with another car that you will be stuck with for years all because the buying experience in the beginning is a concern? Ok. To each their own.

See that's the thing. Buying a car is never a one and done experience. It's a multiyear commitment. If you get bad service at the beginning theres no reason to believe it will get better throughout the life of the vehicle. And unlike other car makers you cant just find a new service shop that's better to take the Tesla too. You're always stuck with Tesla so it's even more important for Tesla to maintain a good relationship with their customers.

I for one have the same dilema. My wife wanted to buy a Model X. Buy now neither of us want to give Tesla any more money. I'm really hoping the Audi E-tron Quattro is what it looks to be. And in a couple more years Porsche and Audi should have something more comparable to the P3D. I don't think it'll be 10 years for legacy makers to catch up. Ford maybe, but not the Germans. They Germans are pissed about Tesla and working hard to compete at this point. Their vastly better customer service and legendary interior quality and drive feel could make their EV the best option yet. The next five years should be really exciting for EVs. And Tesla will be forced to improve or suffer the same fate as Apple in the 90s and remain a barely sustainable niche company with a very small market share of loyal followers that don't mind being treated like expendable garbage.

 

[MMBTUS]

A control in a weird place is a quirk. A high probability of needing repairs that come with long waits for appointments is not a quirk.

I have not seen solid data to support a “high” probability of M3 needing repairs. Even Consumer Reports relies on anecdotal accounts. “Aggregated” makes them sound more convincing. So I think your claim is rather too dramatic. Seems to me that any car is at risk of needing repairs even when new. That could be said about my last car, an SL550 with a $120K sticker. Ok, MB service appointments are a snap, but parts not so much. Stranded three times in two years. With an Enterprise rental “loaner.”

Given the mechanical complexity at the top of the modern ICE design, Tesla’s drivetrain may prove to be the true reliability game changer, the one that really counts long term. That’s what turned me around from driving one of the most mechanically complex cars ever built to one of the simplest. That and the extraordinary operating cost advantages. And yet my M3 may still need to be serviced for something stupid. Let’s see what time tells. Six months in and I’m optimistic about long term ownership based on experience to date.

I do want to send props to Mercedes for having the best service managers I’ve ever known. Seriously, not a backhand dig. At least one of them is with Tesla locally now.

Anyone notice that Consumer Reports also downrated the entire BMW Series 5 model line for reliability?

 

[SO16]

See that's the thing. Buying a car is never a one and done experience. It's a multiyear commitment. If you get bad service at the beginning theres no reason to believe it will get better throughout the life of the vehicle. And unlike other car makers you cant just find a new service shop that's better to take the Tesla too. You're always stuck with Tesla so it's even more important for Tesla to maintain a good relationship with their customers.

I for one have the same dilema. My wife wanted to buy a Model X. Buy now neither of us want to give Tesla any more money. I'm really hoping the Audi E-tron Quattro is what it looks to be. And in a couple more years Porsche and Audi should have something more comparable to the P3D. I don't think it'll be 10 years for legacy makers to catch up. Ford maybe, but not the Germans. They Germans are pissed about Tesla and working hard to compete at this point. Their vastly better customer service and legendary interior quality and drive feel could make their EV the best option yet. The next five years should be really exciting for EVs. And Tesla will be forced to improve or suffer the same fate as Apple in the 90s and remain a barely sustainable niche company with a very small market share of loyal followers that don't mind being treated like expendable garbage.

You say that the Germans are much better with quality and customer service?

Ok. Don’t read this then:

Top 1,069 Reviews and Complaints about BMW

52 Porsche Cars North America Reviews and Complaints @ Pissed Consumer

As far as the etron - don’t read this:
Tesla Model X Over 22% More Efficient On Winter Highway Than Audi e-tron Or Jaguar I-PACE | CleanTechnica

All this being said, Tesla does have major room for improvement. But to think the other manufacturers are just going to catch up to Tesla in all meaningful areas in regards to EVs overnight, May be sorely disappointed.

 

[caskater47]

You say that the Germans are much better with quality and customer service?

Ok. Don’t read this then:

Top 1,069 Reviews and Complaints about BMW

52 Porsche Cars North America Reviews and Complaints @ Pissed Consumer

This is just silly. It's always possible to find horror stories for any brand.

You have to look at the overall. Porsche consistently ranks on top.

Porsche has the most satisfied customers

BMW is another story. While they have generally high ratings my experience with them and my friends' have been terrible. But not in terms of customer service. Their CS was fine. It's the cars that are unreliable p.o.s. That's not what I'm discussing about Tesla though. Tesla quality appears to be fine so far. But their CS is non existant and that will eventually kill them. People are always willing to put up with a bad product as long as you take care of them. That's why BMW is so popular.

Now Audi is easily the best car I've ever owned. Amazing build quality and they always took great care of me. I would buy another in a heartbeat.