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Model 3 (not so!) Long range

Adopado

Active Member
Aug 19, 2019
4,165
3,132
Scotland
When range is being discussed I'm often surprised how rarely it is pointed out that maximum numbers only come if driving from 100% to 0%! Nobody ever does that ... obviously! We may do 50% and then extrapolate our theoretical maximum range on a 100% charge... and it's nice when that comes out as a high figure, but that maximum number is not what we ever do on a motorway trip before stopping to charge. (What are the chances of a Supercharger being in the right place as you roll to a halt with an empty battery?)
 

15Peter20

Member
Oct 26, 2020
470
2,511
Norfolk
300 miles seems reasonable. I see around 225-250 Wh/ mile on dual carriageways and quick A-roads this time of year. Assuming 75kWh is the usable battery capacity then 300-312 miles is doable.

Doesn’t take much succumbing to temptation to make a hole in that mind you!
 

GRiLLA

Member
Jul 5, 2020
833
788
UK
Why did the charge take 40mins? Surely you only needed a quick top up to complete the 300 miles ?

I get about 260 miles at motorway speeds, typically set Autopilot to 73mph, for example ...

1623966336212.png
 
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Alistairuk

Member
Jun 25, 2020
530
352
Scotland
I had the supercharger destinations put in the satnav a good half hour or so beforehand (when it was clear we weren't going to make the full journey).
Did the car navigation not suggest itself that you needed to supercharge and automatically select the optimum one for the minimum delay to your journey? Not sure if that's an option you maybe have to enable in the menu?

As the others already said, driving between 60 - 70 will get you much further and may even work out "faster" than having to stop and charge.
 
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tstolze

Member
Oct 9, 2020
293
423
OFallon, MO
I had the supercharger destinations put in the satnav a good half hour or so beforehand (when it was clear we weren't going to make the full journey). Tyre pressures were checked beforehand too.

Did the car navigation not suggest itself that you needed to supercharge and automatically select the optimum one for the minimum delay to your journey? Not sure if that's an option you maybe have to enable in the menu?

As the others already said, driving between 60 - 70 will get you much further and may even work out "faster" than having to stop and charge.

This has me wondering if the opp didn't have the final destination in the navigation?
 

Jason71

Active Member
May 8, 2019
2,966
2,895
Shropshire
Folks, what's your experience of range on your long range model 3s on long journeys?

I've had mine since Dec 2020 (it's the version with black handles and trims), and due to covid it's only the last month we've really had a chance to make some decent trips (300 miles each way).

Honestly...I'm really disappointed and I'm gutted about feeling this way.

Fully charged and driving in chill at a pretty constant 75 motorway speed...200-225 was closer to the actual range we'd hit if we hadn't stopped for a charge.

This was confirmed again on the return journey. 40 mins to recharge might not seem like much, but at midnight after a day at work...I could do without it.

Tesla service are remotely checking things out to be sure there aren't any faults, but their initial feedback suggests no faults with my car.

So that means that as much as I like the car, getting 225 miles instead of the advertised 360 makes it unsuitable for my needs. I know not to expect the quoted range, but so much less is hard to deal with.

What do you get from yours? If I can't get to 300/charge, I may have to trade it in for a petrol car until electric technology improves enough to have another go.
As people have said the actual range has a lot to do with starting charge, finish charge, and location of superchargers.
Makes a lot more sense to talk about wh/m if trying to figure out whether your car is working to spec
So what is the average wh/m that you are seeing? that is the way to tell if the car is working correctly.
at 70mph you may get down to 250wh/m in warmish dry weather. driving from 90-10 that would give you 270 miles. at 75mph that will drop considerably. since at constant high speed its all about air resistance and the relationship between air resistance and energy use is a squared one so going from 70 to 75 a 7% speed increase will require 15% more energy so would take you down to 208miles.

That is the reality of EV's right now. If you want a genuine 300 miles of range cruising on a motorway at >70 miles per hour a model S long range is about the only car on the planet that might get you there. You are not going to do it in any variant of the M3.
And to be fair to Tesla they never said you could. The 360 miles is WLTP does not come from them and they are mandated to display it. Its like the mpg at a constant 56 quoted for ICE cars. No one ever actually gets that and no one thinks they will. its for comparison between cars.
The ranges that Tesla not WLTP say the car will do ARE achievable under ideal conditions but those don't include >70 on a motorway.
If you are disappointed with the range in June I'm afraid I have some more bad news for you. You will lose another 10-15% when winter comes around due to temperature . and the same again on any day with significant rain fall due to rolling resistance.
 

Jason71

Active Member
May 8, 2019
2,966
2,895
Shropshire
Last question on the point of acceleration (so this time not range-related!)..do yours feel sluggish from standstill? It doesn't have the immediate torque you get when moving.
Mine definitely won't hit 60 in 4.2. Best I've managed is 4.6.

I've turned off the obstacle aware acceleration. Anything else/settings I need to change?

Thanks all
sluggish from standstill is usually the last thing you hear about any EV let alone a tesla. Unlike an ICE that has to open a valve, suck in air, mix it with fuel, spin up an engine. engage gears etc. Flooring an ev is just like closing a light switch and then it should have nearly 100% of power and torque available from standstill.
I have not done any 0-60 in mine but I believe Teslas can reliably hit their documented 0-60 so if OAA is off I don't know what is going on there. Plenty of Teslas in Kent. can you find someone who has one to compare yours to?
State of charge has an impact as does battery temp and I have heard it is affecting the newer LG batteries cars more so the difference between a full warm battery and a cold flat one could be really significant.
The only other setting that should affect it is being in Chill mode but I am guessing you have not set that. That would definitely do it.
 

Mdubs

New Member
Jun 17, 2021
3
3
Kent
Based on the discrepancy I was getting from real world driving and the range displayed in the car...I charged for 40 mins to prevent another stop on the journey.

Could you tell me what you used to get that journey data? Looks handy
 

Durzel

Active Member
Jul 17, 2019
3,450
2,407
Bath, UK
in my experience of eeking out every bit of charge out of an i3, when I had it, smooth inputs were the key. If you make a lot of rash inputs the range would drop precipitously.

If I was particularly low on charge and couldn’t be bothered to charge before going home I’d have to drive it like it was a boat. Bags of anticipation and as much regeneration as I could possibly get. There also seemed to be a sweet spot with that too, where I’d get more reported regen range if I was half accelerating, half braking, rather than lifting off the accelerator completely, if that makes sense. I don’t know if the same applies to the Model 3.
 

Mrklaw

Member
Mar 5, 2020
430
226
Berkshire
As people have said the actual range has a lot to do with starting charge, finish charge, and location of superchargers.
Makes a lot more sense to talk about wh/m if trying to figure out whether your car is working to spec
So what is the average wh/m that you are seeing? that is the way to tell if the car is working correctly.
at 70mph you may get down to 250wh/m in warmish dry weather. driving from 90-10 that would give you 270 miles. at 75mph that will drop considerably. since at constant high speed its all about air resistance and the relationship between air resistance and energy use is a squared one so going from 70 to 75 a 7% speed increase will require 15% more energy so would take you down to 208miles.

That is the reality of EV's right now. If you want a genuine 300 miles of range cruising on a motorway at >70 miles per hour a model S long range is about the only car on the planet that might get you there. You are not going to do it in any variant of the M3.
And to be fair to Tesla they never said you could. The 360 miles is WLTP does not come from them and they are mandated to display it. Its like the mpg at a constant 56 quoted for ICE cars. No one ever actually gets that and no one thinks they will. its for comparison between cars.
The ranges that Tesla not WLTP say the car will do ARE achievable under ideal conditions but those don't include >70 on a motorway.
If you are disappointed with the range in June I'm afraid I have some more bad news for you. You will lose another 10-15% when winter comes around due to temperature . and the same again on any day with significant rain fall due to rolling resistance.

perhaps they should stop using ‘range’ as a metric and move to wh/m or mile/kwh as an equivalent of mog to show the efficiency at a moment in time?

that does seem low though - I got about 180 from my sr+ in cool temps and almost 200 in warmer weather on a motorway at 73 on the cruise control.
 

Jason71

Active Member
May 8, 2019
2,966
2,895
Shropshire
perhaps they should stop using ‘range’ as a metric and move to wh/m or mile/kwh as an equivalent of mog to show the efficiency at a moment in time?

that does seem low though - I got about 180 from my sr+ in cool temps and almost 200 in warmer weather on a motorway at 73 on the cruise control.
overall range is something people have a reason to want to know. The problem is range only matters at road trip speeds i.e. motorway in the UK. Who cares much about range around town So the range figure that I would like to see clearly published is the "highway" range. Really as a range high and low based on 20degrees and dry and 5degrees and wet. Now THAT would give people a realistic picture before buying.
 

VanillaAir_UK

Well-Known Member
Jun 17, 2019
8,234
5,758
Surrey, UK
Because physics. Driving somewhere at a slower speed cannot mean you will get there “at least” as quickly. Ignoring things like traffic etc.
and ignoring things like charging.

Its perfectly feasible to get there quicker by driving slower when you take charging and charging speeds into account. If you drive slower, you don't use as much energy, and so charging will not take as long and you can keep charging more in the sweet spot, or even better, you may not even need to charge.

But its also perfectly feasible to drive really fast, and make more charge stops or shorter duration and get there faster too. But I'm not convinced of the practicalities of that on UK roads.
 

browellm

Member
Oct 4, 2019
529
471
Notts
Because physics. Driving somewhere at a slower speed cannot mean you will get there “at least” as quickly. Ignoring things like traffic etc.

You might want to think about the realities of driving a Model 3 today, as things stand in regard to range.

It's a fair assumption you will need to stop once on this journey, as the OP is doing currently. In a stylised situation of driving all at 75 vs all at 70, you save 17 minutes on the journey time. Not quite, because of some non-motorway and traffic, but let's go with it.

Now, if the supercharger stop is currently taking 40 minutes and you swap to 70 miles an hour with better efficiency it is not inconceivable at all that in your recalculated SuC stop, you only need 20 minutes top up to reach your destination. Thus "at least" covering the increased drive time.

So, uh, yeah. Applied physics.
 
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Adopado

Active Member
Aug 19, 2019
4,165
3,132
Scotland
hat does seem low though - I got about 180 from my sr+ in cool temps and almost 200 in warmer weather on a motorway at 73 on the cruise control.
Does that mean you set off with 100% and stopped at a Supercharger with 0% having driven 200 miles down a motorway or are those figures extrapolated?
 
Last edited:

Jason71

Active Member
May 8, 2019
2,966
2,895
Shropshire
You might want to think about the realities of driving a Model 3 today, as things stand in regard to range.

It's a fair assumption you will need to stop once on this journey, as the OP is doing currently. In a stylised situation of driving all at 75 vs all at 70, you save 17 minutes on the journey time. Not quite, because of some non-motorway and traffic, but let's go with it.

Now, if the supercharger stop is currently taking 40 minutes and you swap to 70 miles an hour with better efficiency it is not inconceivable at all that in your recalculated SuC stop, you only need 20 minutes top up to reach your destination. Thus "at least" covering the increased drive time.

So, uh, yeah. Applied physics.
Tests have been done on driving faster stop times etc and if driving faster leads to more stops then on some journeys slower could be faster but on your premise of driving faster so needing the same number of stops but having to stop a bit longer I believe faster still comes out faster based on the supercharger network. I have no citation. there are you tube videos out there if you look but generally it turns out faster is still faster. enough to make it worthwhile? that's down to the individual
 

GT_M3

Member
Aug 20, 2019
37
34
Berkshire
I also use the same assumption for my M3P. 200 miles of ‘normal’ driving at 80 mph on motorway is par for me.
Same here, for my LR. I'm only doing short trips at the moment and so I'm getting 284Wh/mile which equates to 250+ miles range. (I have a 2019 model and don't see the 225-250 Wh/mile average that some do). Doing short trips I don't need to worry about range anyway, and so drive accordingly. ;)

I have my display set to % and just assume 2 miles range to every 1% to manage any range anxiety. When I first got the car I'd worry about range shown vs actual miles covered, but now I have it on % and use the energy graph prediction if I'm on a longer trip and concerned about range, and then slow down if necessary.

Personally I wouldn't want to plan a 300 mile journey without a charge, although I'm sure it is achievable I'd be constantly monitoring my usage which is not relaxing.
 

Adopado

Active Member
Aug 19, 2019
4,165
3,132
Scotland
Personally I wouldn't want to plan a 300 mile journey without a charge, although I'm sure it is achievable I'd be constantly monitoring my usage which is not relaxing.
Exactly. There’s no shame in stopping to charge! It makes life so much more relaxed if you build in your charging without trying to break records. You then realise how easy it is to go any distance.
 

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