Model 3 or 2?

[JustJohn]

If they cannot get their $130K flagship vehicle right, what makes you think a Model 3 rolling off the line is any different?

Tesla quality control is the worst in the auto industry. People really need to stop making excuses for it.

Maybe so but I'm not one willing to excuse it, which is part of my point. You seem to be irate that the car company you chose has similar issues to other low volume products. Being from the automotive industry, I can tell you that real production volumes start at 1 million, 3 million being preferable.
In 3 years with an i3, I've made it clear there were issues. I would also challenge you to find flawless quality, not craftsmanship, in any "flagship" Italian car. Pick any car, any forum, and the top trending threads are going to include disgruntled owners. At lower production volumes, you're paying for many things; exclusivity, technology, performance, rarely quality. If I had to pick the last car I'd ever be allowed to buy, it wouldn't be anything I actually wanted, probably a Toyota.
After 4 days in a Model 3, I had to reboot the car because I tried to open the owner's manual and my phone key has not been 100% flawless (my Ducati key would not work at some gas pumps). The BMW never had a software glitch. Tesla should absolutely be raked across the coals for these issues. It doesn't stop me from enjoying the car.

 

[ZapCarM3]

I don't think the 2 will be sold in the US, it's for Asia and the EU where they like small hatchbacks and don't care nearly as much about range as we do. VW isn't bring the ID.3 to America for that very reason. The 3 or Y is your best bet. If you are worried about paint wait a year for them to start producing cars in Austin. Austin will have a state of the art paint shop and the move to castings should fix the panel gap issues. Aside from cosmetics Tesla's are very reliable, it's certainly the most reliable car I've ever owned. In the two years that I've owned my 3 the only service that it's had are two tire rotations, every ICE car that I've ever owned in the last 50 years had been back to the dealer several times in it's first two years. BTW for this years service I had it done in my driveway, a Tesla tech came to my house and rotated my tires and cleaned and lubricated the brakes and checked the brake fluid (it was absolutely fine but the cost for a check was minimal and it's recommended at two years). The total cost of the in house service was only $138, my time to take a car to a shop to have a tire rotation and brake service done is worth much more than that so in my book I made money on the deal.

Any way to get the Austin based models when the factory is up?

I know the model 2 market doesn't sound like it would be big here but I actually highly doubt it wouldn't be. I think there just hasn't been a compelling vehicle in that market here yet. You still see the occasional nissan leaf from a while ago and that was a terrible vehicle but someone still thought it was worth buying. Many more would find the model 2 worth buying if anyone were to buy a leaf. Plus, 200ish miles of range is around what the standard range gets and you see those around plenty. I think it's going to be a hit here. I know I'd probably want one if it's realized similarly to how it's being hyped up. Hence my post.

Tesla is supremely reliable for sure

 

[ZapCarM3]

Put it this way, whatever vehicle you are speaking of has not even been formally announced.

Cybertruck reveal was in 2019 and has been delayed until at least 2022.

How long do you feel like waiting?

Yeah this is what I'm thinking but then again the Y was a little early. But I do mostly agree, emotionally and logically, that this is realistic. And also some kind of production imperfections early on I would wait out so whatever time until production and then more to see better models. Could be a while.

 

[ZapCarM3]

A couple things here....

There is no model 2 (or whatever tesla will call it) as it has not even been announced yet as @glide said. You are looking at at least a couple of years before you could theoretically buy said vehicle. Probably MUCH longer.

Since tesla is STILL battery constrained (they cant make batteries fast enough) there is no (zip, nada, none) incentive for them to make a "cheaper" car to put batteries into at this point, other than "for the environment!". You would likely be waiting "years" for this vehicle, with years being defined as at least a couple, more like 3+.

Secondly, while no one at all can predict retail car values, planning a purchase around what your car will be worth whenever you sell it has never made a lot of sense to me, unless you are in the business of flipping cars. Even with that being said, when the model Y was released, model 3 values did not "quickly sink".

No one knows, but what you are basically saying / asking is "I dont want to buy a model 3 now, and have the model 2 or whatever its called quickly sink values when that car is released 3 years ish from now, do you think that will happen?"

That is what I'm saying. I didn't think the model Y would sink the 3. It's too similar in range and it's a little more expensive. The model 2 would be a lot cheaper and similarly practical to the 3 so I think it could sink them.

 

[ZapCarM3]

(Donning my flame-retardant suit....)

If you want a less expensive/smaller EV than the Model 3 and you want it soon, then I'd suggest you look at some non-Tesla EVs. Something like the Kia Niro EV or refreshed Chevy Bolt might work for you. Granted, you won't get the same DC fast charging speed, software updates, or other Tesla-specific features, but these vehicles are available now. If the Tesla Model 2 materializes in a few years, and if you like what you see in it, you can always trade in the EV you buy today for the Model 2.

I feel like those are guaranteed plummet in a couple years but also they are kinda just not worth the money to me for what they are. I get your point but I think they are a poor purchase in the ev world. I actually have no idea what my second choice ev brand would be. Some of the newest stuff yet to be released maybe? I keep an eye on all of them. But most are shockingly bad. I've tried the niro, the mach e, yet to try the id4.

 

[ZapCarM3]

Quality issues are going to be there but the internet (and forums) distort actual figures. Owners with complaints, both real and imagined, are more motivated to talk about them online. Owners with no issues, like me, seldom make a point of praising something that is taken for granted. Either way, I wouldn't expect a Model 2's quality to be vastly different from the Model 3.

I see them on most models but I look for them obsessively. Some are unforgivable. But mostly just on older models.

 

[ZapCarM3]

I'd suspect - per some other posters - you're not going to be able to buy a "Model 2" any sooner than 2 years from now.

Are you not digging on an M3 in general, i.e., you want something more compact? If you're OK with an M3, maybe a shorter term lease like 24 months on an SR or LR[?] A lease would sort of cover your concern about value on the backside, particularly if/when a smaller model comes to the US.

I drive too much to consider this a viable option, plus I'd tint the windows and such. It would be "my" car through and through very quickly. No lease.

 

[ZapCarM3]

If you can't/don't want to wait AND you want to minimize the effect of depreciation, purchase a used Bolt EV and drive it like crazy before GM sends you a notice to replace the battery pack, after which you'll have an even greater life of the vehicle until the Tesla that meets your needs arrives.

But would I definitely get it? So you're getting get it used and then they will replace with new pack, new battery? They would honor that for used sales? I will look into test drives for the bolt ev. I'm curious. Maybe I won't hate it. I want to blow my money kinda but I want it to be on the car that really deserves it. The 3 isn't quite it. The S could be but it's too soon. So I kinda want that middle ground or buy time to get to that point car. Maybe the Bolt is worth considering... I'll test one soon! Any suggestions as to what years and why?

 

[ZapCarM3]

This excuse is so tired these days. Tesla quality is absolute crap. Whether people complain about it or not is a different story.

In Ryan Shaw’s most recent video, 3 out of 3 Plaids he saw all had serious defects. Doug Demurio called out poor quality in this Plaid review. Daerik’s Plaid had issues. And these are the vehicles making their way to influencers. Come to think of it, I have not seen a MS refresh delivered WITHOUT issues.

You can’t call that a statistical anomaly.

I've seen perfect tesla's but most have something. I think the numbers are actually skewed in favor of them looking better than they actually are because average consumer lacks the attention to detail. I see it on a majority of tesla's. Easy to identify once you know where to look. Very common and shouldn't be.

 

[ZapCarM3]

How much are you going to spend on gasoline and engine maintenance in the meantime?

On my Prius, not too much. But it's getting up there in miles so there is a little anxiety. 152k miles.

 

[ZapCarM3]

If they cannot get their $130K flagship vehicle right, what makes you think a Model 3 rolling off the line is any different?

Tesla quality control is the worst in the auto industry. People really need to stop making excuses for it.

Because they've been perfecting it over time. It's gotten so much better. It's every time they have the newest model that there are issues. Overtime it gets much better, generally. I've sat in some model 3's with immaculate build quality recently. Super well done all around. But 2 years ago I couldn't have said that.

That's a fallacy though that more expensive cars are necessarily higher quality. A lot of the luxury brands have relatively poor quality, with lots of things breaking early in its life (was just reading about cylinder misfire problems in Mercedes engines), while a cheap car like a Corolla remains reliable for a long time. It has to do with using older components (Toyota tends to be behind the times in tech, but uses tried and true components as long as possible) and the line running longer.

First year / new release problems also tend to crop up no matter what level the car as the people are getting used to assembly.

I think this as well. The tesla's are expensive because of the tech and motor batter technology. They save money elsewhere. But they are getting better at it but hopefully sooner.

 

[Ron_M3]

But would I definitely get it? So you're getting get it used and then they will replace with new pack, new battery? They would honor that for used sales? I will look into test drives for the bolt ev. I'm curious. Maybe I won't hate it. I want to blow my money kinda but I want it to be on the car that really deserves it. The 3 isn't quite it. The S could be but it's too soon. So I kinda want that middle ground or buy time to get to that point car. Maybe the Bolt is worth considering... I'll test one soon! Any suggestions as to what years and why?

A co-worker of mine bought a 2020 Bolt. So far he's found it to be good, reliable transportation. Although I've yet to ride in one, I checked out the 2017 model when they came out and didn't like the seats at all, but found them much improved in the 2020 model. Also, I believe the battery issues they've been having (recalls due to batteries catching on fire ) have been corrected by the 2020 model.

 

[father_of_6]

(Donning my flame-retardant suit....)

If you want a less expensive/smaller EV than the Model 3 and you want it soon, then I'd suggest you look at some non-Tesla EVs. Something like the Kia Niro EV or refreshed Chevy Bolt might work for you. Granted, you won't get the same DC fast charging speed, software updates, or other Tesla-specific features, but these vehicles are available now. If the Tesla Model 2 materializes in a few years, and if you like what you see in it, you can always trade in the EV you buy today for the Model 2.

Does the Chevy Bolt come with the flame-retardant suit, or do you have to buy your own?

 

[charlieaf92]

Woah, dude didn't you just string a 4 page thread along for several weeks debating about whether to get a P3D or a LR AWD? As others have said, if you're serious about having a car in your possession in the next 2-4 years, the 2 is not even remotely a consideration. So if you're a serious buyer, get the 3. If you just really enjoy speculating and talking about cars on the internet, then you're on the right track and proceed as you have been.

 

[bjrosen]

A co-worker of mine bought a 2020 Bolt. So far he's found it to be good, reliable transportation. Although I've yet to ride in one, I checked out the 2017 model when they came out and didn't like the seats at all, but found them much improved in the 2020 model. Also, I believe the battery issues they've been having (recalls due to batteries catching on fire ) have been corrected by the 2020 model.

There has been a 2020 Bolt fire. The common denominator in the Bolt and Hyundai fires has been LG, the batteries for Bolt and Hyundai's were built in different plants. The 2020 Bolt uses batteries from a new American GM/LG joint venture plant, it's an improved chemistry but still an LG battery. There haven't been any details of the 2020 Bolt fire released so we don't know if the car had been in an accident or if it's the same problem as the older Bolts. I wouldn't buy a Bolt right now until things are resolved.

 

[ZapCarM3]

Hey guys I just drove the bolt and I hate it. No chance I'm getting the bolt.

 

[ZapCarM3]

Woah, dude didn't you just string a 4 page thread along for several weeks debating about whether to get a P3D or a LR AWD? As others have said, if you're serious about having a car in your possession in the next 2-4 years, the 2 is not even remotely a consideration. So if you're a serious buyer, get the 3. If you just really enjoy speculating and talking about cars on the internet, then you're on the right track and proceed as you have been.

Yes, surprised? I do a lot of thinking.

Anyway just drove a bolt and no chance I'd want to drive it again.

I'll be getting the Tesla. Now the wait times are factors since SR is now January... But let's see what I do or ask next haha. I think you make a good point about the 2. And if we're wrong and it's here early, oh well! That's a good thing.

 

[stopcrazypp]

There has been a 2020 Bolt fire. The common denominator in the Bolt and Hyundai fires has been LG, the batteries for Bolt and Hyundai's were built in different plants. The 2020 Bolt uses batteries from a new American GM/LG joint venture plant, it's an improved chemistry but still an LG battery. There haven't been any details of the 2020 Bolt fire released so we don't know if the car had been in an accident or if it's the same problem as the older Bolts. I wouldn't buy a Bolt right now until things are resolved.

Yeah, the 2020 fire was unexpected to me too. I previously suggested to some people that liked the Bolt they can trade in for new Bolt with their buyback instead of buying a completely different car. Now even that suggestion may not be good, as the issue may not be isolated to only the South Korean plant that made the cells for the older Bolts. Even the 2022 is not necessarily safe as GM is still using similar cells/architecture. That's why GM needs to get to the bottom of this ASAP, really hard to recommend a car where this remains an unknown.

 

[ZapCarM3]

Yeah, the 2020 fire was a unexpected to me too. I previously suggested to some people that liked the Bolt they can trade in for new Bolt with their buyback instead of buying a completely different car. Now even that suggestion may not be good, as the issue may not be isolated to only the South Korean plant that made the cells for the older Bolts. Even the 2022 is not necessarily safe as GM is still using similar cells/architecture. That's why GM needs to get to the bottom of this ASAP, really hard to recommend a car where this remains an unknown.

Haha yeah, it's a great car but it might catch fire! Otherwise, highly suggest.

Man, the Tesla is really hard to beat. The second you get into the bolt it's really not competitive at all. And I floored the car to see how the acceleration felt and guess what happened...the front wheels just spin out.

Even on the RWD model 3 it doesn't do that.