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Model 3 or wait for Model Y and other questions

Discussion in 'Australia' started by orion2185, Nov 10, 2019.

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Should we get a Model 3 or Wait for the Model Y?

  1. what are you waiting for get the Model 3 NOW

  2. Wait for the model Y

Results are only viewable after voting.
  1. orion2185

    orion2185 Member

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2018
    Messages:
    6
    Location:
    Gold Coast Australia
    Hi everyone,

    I’m trying to figure out what to do. Sorry for the lengthy post.
    However, I been reading the Model 3 thread and at 600+ pages things get confusing.

    I moved to Gold Coast, Australia from America a few years ago.
    In fact last week I officially became an Australian Citizen.

    I’m so confused as it appears the Tesla’s sold in America have different features than Australia.
    I really can’t find any reliable site that offers up to date info on Australian Tesla’s.
    Most of what I can find is now outdated as we know Tesla is know for quickly changing options and features.

    I really would like a model X, but I’m not spending that much money on a car. In addition, to me it feels outdated when you compare the model 3 latest tech.
    While it’s not I guess it’s like when a new iPhone comes out. Even though your old phone still gets updates...it feels outdated compared to the latest model.

    So I have been waiting for the model Y
    Based upon the information out now the model Y would be perfect car for us.
    Only issue is I’m not certain if we can wait for them Y to hit Australia.
    Which I’m guessing is at least 2 years or more away for Australia.

    The model 3 has now become something that might be of interest.
    Have spotted a number of model 3s around the Gold Coast and looks like the Model 3 would be suitable for us.
    This might be enough for us or at least something to tie us over until the Y arrives in AUS.
    Really having Tesla FOMO!

    Long story short (I know too late)

    I’m looking to lease a Tesla
    Most likely a business lease
    This is something that we have never done before.
    Have always bought used/2nd hand card outright.
    As cars are just rip offs and horrible use of finances.
    No need to spend top dollar on something that drops in value instantly. When they all get you from A to B.


    I have always wanted to go all electric since the roadster.


    Currently we have a 2012 Toyota Prius C with currently 182,000 km
    We are starting to experience issues with the Prius.
    Central doors will no longer lock or unlock electronically. Y
    out physical have the lock the car from the inside and shut the door.
    Cost to repair is almost to the point where it’s not worth it. As you will eat into a large portion of the cars current resale value.
    Other issues are starting to appear and Toyota service has mentioned these are early signs to major issues.
    Which may or may not be true. But they have never tried to mention buying another car.

    We are at that point where if any repairs need to be made…it’s just not wort it.
    As the cars resale value is pretty low.


    From a money prospective buying a Tesla is not worth it, when you consider we don’t ever normally spend anywhere close to what a Tesla cost on buying any car.

    Given that we own the Prius outright from day 1 and the cost of fuel is minimal at best.
    Outgoing cost and servicing does add up over the years. But still does not bring the out pocket costs close to the high up front cost of a Tesla.
    Or, at least that what I’m thinking.

    At this point in time buying a Tesla is for personal reasons, supporting Elon’s mission and doing our bit for the environment (for just a few reasons).

    However, as noted above it looks like it’s a matter of time before we will be forced into buying another car.
    I’m simply not interested in buying another ICE vechical or Hybrid again.
    Want to go 100% electric and Tesla is the only brand that we will even consider.

    My wife does not and never has had a drivers license.
    So we are a 1 car family
    Currently no children.
    But wife would like to start a family soon (another reason why I want a model x...but just too expensive).
    Or, this is why we will get the Model Y when it comes out.

    In addition, we do have the need to carry large items on a semi regular basis.
    So having the extra cargo room is ideal.


    Keep in mind we have no clue what leasing a car is
    Nor have we ever bought a car using financing before.

    So I’m trying to understand the in/outs before speaking with Tesla or anyone else.
    I have attempted a number of times to contact Pepper and Macquarie finance Finance to get more information.
    Pepper says they are not longer doing Teslas.
    Macquarie finance has not really responded. In addition, they won’t send me any documents without going through the offical process.

    Being self employed what kind of documentation will they need?
    As I will have to sort this with accountant and this cost $$$ for them to organise.
    Unless it’s basic information.
    However, seeing as the car would be purchased in a trust with a corporation as the trustee. This might be a bit more complex?

    I’m the kind of guy that likes to search for the best product and terms.
    So trying to work out if we can sort the lease on our own and end up better off (than going direct with who Tesla Australia uses)


    While I know everyone can’t really offer much advise (as it really depends on personal circumstances).

    Here are some questions that I thought I would post and see what the majority responses are.

    Would it be a good idea to lease a model 3 and then trade it for a Model Y when they are available in Australia?
    How does this work?
    Even more so how would this process work with a lease on the car?

    Our account has advised that lease is great option from a clash flow view point.
    In addition, they have advised to do a chattel mortgage lease. \
    That way we own the car and have the option of selling the car…if we wanted to.

    I see from the Tesla site a business lease has a balloon payment option.
    Given the timeframe for the Model Y if we were to lease a model 3...we would not be at the end of the 3 lease.
    Can you trade cars while still having a current lease on the car?
    How does that work? Do you still pay the lease out/ balloon payment?

    Or, does Tesla take the market value of the 3 at trade in time, off the remaining portion of the model 3?


    Would I be correct that there is no reason for me to do ceramic coat and/or paint protection film on a lease?
    It’s just dead money since we won’t be the car at end of the lease.

    Is there restrictions on how many can put on the car during your lease?

    Can you have a Tesla electrician come to your home before you buy a Tesla to see what the Wall Charger install would cost?
    Do they charge a fee for them to come out and quote the install costs?



    For those who have a business lease
    How do you go about claiming tax deductions for operating costs? We current take advantage of offsetting our tax with writing off our cars operating expenses.
    Since you are not buying petrol but using electricity
    How do you keep records of how much electricity to charge? I’m sure the ATO will want so kind of record keeping to prove how much electricity you are using to charge the car.
    are there any other tax deductions you can claim?
    Seeing as a Tesla does not have really any service cost to claim.
    Might not be the idea car for those who take advantage of claiming these expenses???


    I think that’s a good start for now.

    Any help or tips is greatly appreciated, Thank you so much!
     
  2. ShockOnT

    ShockOnT ⚡️⚡️⚡️⚡️⚡️

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2016
    Messages:
    3,261
    Location:
    Sydney
    I didn’t read your entire post, but I would recommend getting the 3 unless you really need the hatchback.
    The tech probably won’t be better in the Y, since it will be based on the 3.
    The 3 is very efficient due to lower body, and should have greater range than the Y, which is important in Australia.
     
    • Like x 2
  3. orion2185

    orion2185 Member

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2018
    Messages:
    6
    Location:
    Gold Coast Australia
    Yes that does make sense
    The Y will also cost more than the 3.
    So that might also be a factor. The hatch might not be worth the extra dollars.



    Side note
    Forgot to mention that we do about 150km per day.

    Would you guys suggest standard range
    Or, long range?

    As much as we want white seats...the performance is out.
    Just don’t need or care about speed
     
  4. drtimhill

    drtimhill Member

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2019
    Messages:
    976
    Location:
    Seattle
    I would go long range if you can afford it. You will avoid range anxiety, you will stress the battery less (which means it lasts longer), and my opinion is that the resale value of LR will be better.

    As for Model 3 vs Model Y .. even if you wait, what will happen? When the Model Y is available there will be talk of a Model 3 V2, or something else better "just in a year or so". EV car tech, and in particular Tesla tech, is evolving fast, and there will always be something new just over the horizon. So you have to balance "good now" with "better later", and even the wisest have trouble with THAT decision.
     
    • Like x 2
  5. Petergarrett38

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2018
    Messages:
    74
    Location:
    Gold Coast, Australia
    I moved to Gold Coast, Australia from America a few years ago.
    In fact last week I officially became an Australian Citizen. - Welcome to the best country in the world.


    From a money prospective buying a Tesla is not worth it, when you consider we don’t ever normally spend anywhere close to what a Tesla cost on buying any car. - I suggest comparing overall running costs. I found that my previous car or any other comparable car, was more expensive per month (lease cost, gas, servicing) than a model S. jeep was $900 per month on lease + $200 per month on gas + 100-200 on servicing and faults = $1200 per month. Model S is $1600 month and is miles ahead of the jeep.

    Given that we own the Prius outright from day 1 and the cost of fuel is minimal at best.
    Outgoing cost and servicing does add up over the years. But still does not bring the out pocket costs close to the high up front cost of a Tesla.
    Or, at least that what I’m thinking. - compare leasing a new prius + gas + servicing + a little extra incase something goes wrong with a model 3 per month. as above.

    My wife does not and never has had a drivers license.
    So we are a 1 car family
    Currently no children.
    But wife would like to start a family soon (another reason why I want a model x...but just too expensive).
    Or, this is why we will get the Model Y when it comes out. Model 3 will serve you well into the first 3-5 years with 1 or 2 children.

    In addition, we do have the need to carry large items on a semi regular basis.
    So having the extra cargo room is ideal. the boot (trunk) on the model 3 with the seats folded down is enormous.


    So I’m trying to understand the in/outs before speaking with Tesla or anyone else.
    I have attempted a number of times to contact Pepper and Macquarie finance Finance to get more information.
    Pepper says they are not longer doing Teslas.
    Macquarie finance has not really responded. In addition, they won’t send me any documents without going through the offical process.
    Speak to Stratton finance they will broker any deal you like and talk you through each option.

    Being self employed what kind of documentation will they need?
    As I will have to sort this with accountant and this cost $$$ for them to organise.
    Unless it’s basic information.
    However, seeing as the car would be purchased in a trust with a corporation as the trustee. This might be a bit more complex? Talk to Stratton finance.

    I’m the kind of guy that likes to search for the best product and terms.
    So trying to work out if we can sort the lease on our own and end up better off (than going direct with who Tesla Australia uses)
    Stratton.

    While I know everyone can’t really offer much advise (as it really depends on personal circumstances).

    Here are some questions that I thought I would post and see what the majority responses are.

    Would it be a good idea to lease a model 3 and then trade it for a Model Y when they are available in Australia?
    How does this work? Stratton.
    Even more so how would this process work with a lease on the car? Stratton

    Our account has advised that lease is great option from a clash flow view point.
    In addition, they have advised to do a chattel mortgage lease. \ I have a Chattel mortgage and I own my own business its a great idea as you save the GST on the purchase and on the repayments.
    That way we own the car and have the option of selling the car…if we wanted to.

    I see from the Tesla site a business lease has a balloon payment option. S
    Given the timeframe for the Model Y if we were to lease a model 3...we would not be at the end of the 3 lease.
    Can you trade cars while still having a current lease on the car?
    How does that work? Do you still pay the lease out/ balloon payment? pay the lease/mortgage out with the money you get for selling the car second hand. Teslas are not dropping in value on the second hand market so you make not take a hit at all.

    Or, does Tesla take the market value of the 3 at trade in time, off the remaining portion of the model 3?
    Dont sell it back to Tesla, sell it privately, if you do that through the business the next buyer can claim the GST if they are a business as well!

    Would I be correct that there is no reason for me to do ceramic coat and/or paint protection film on a lease?
    It’s just dead money since we won’t be the car at end of the lease. I would do it and might do it with my model s as it will always be easier to sell with paint protection.

    Is there restrictions on how many can put on the car during your lease? kilometres you mean? no there is not.

    Can you have a Tesla electrician come to your home before you buy a Tesla to see what the Wall Charger install would cost?
    Do they charge a fee for them to come out and quote the install costs? most electricians will quote for free.



    For those who have a business lease
    How do you go about claiming tax deductions for operating costs? We current take advantage of offsetting our tax with writing off our cars operating expenses. as above I claim GST and any parking or related costs motor vehicle expenses and can be claimed.
    Since you are not buying petrol but using electricity
    How do you keep records of how much electricity to charge? I’m sure the ATO will want so kind of record keeping to prove how much electricity you are using to charge the car. This is too small to worry about I have found, especially when you factor in places where you can charge for free.
    are there any other tax deductions you can claim? as long as its related to the car you can claim it as an expense e.g. tyres.
    Seeing as a Tesla does not have really any service cost to claim.
    Might not be the idea car for those who take advantage of claiming these expenses??? for my business its working out very well and I would recommend.
     
    • Like x 1
  6. PJF000

    PJF000 Member

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2015
    Messages:
    696
    Location:
    Australia
    TLDR


    Test drive a 3. That will resolve all your queries. You will either find a way to buy one ASAP (bite off more than you can chew and chew like mad), or you will settle down, and resolve your issues with a cool head and within your comfortable parameters.
     
  7. Grenadine

    Grenadine Member

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2019
    Messages:
    536
    Location:
    Brisbane, Australia
    If you live on the Gold Coast I suggest your wife get a licence. Public transport is crap there. Particularly if you are planning to have kids.
     
  8. stphw

    stphw Member

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2014
    Messages:
    87
    Location:
    Wollongong, Australia
    Personally, I've never understood why so many people like SUVs. I'd recommend the 3 now if you can afford it.
    I'm not an accountant though I've found there usually isn't a benefit in buying a car through a business vs privately due to fringe benefits tax.
    When I applied for loan with Pepper's, they wanted personal and company tax returns for last 2 years as I'm self employed.
    If required, I wouldn't plan on Tesla giving you a good trade in offer.
    Having an electrician install the wall charger is usually $200-800 depending on distance from switchboard etc. Most would give you a free quote.
     
  9. ShockOnT

    ShockOnT ⚡️⚡️⚡️⚡️⚡️

    Joined:
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    Messages:
    3,261
    Location:
    Sydney
    @Petergarrett38 @orion2185
    Buying a Tesla is not a good financial decision. You would be better off with a 2nd-hand hybrid Camry, which can be had with low mileage for around $20,000.
    But it sounds like you want a Tesla, and on this forum that puts you in very good company. There is nothing even close for the money. The Model 3 is a work of art, is a step-change in technology above ICE cars, and comes with excellent integration with the app and the charging network.
    It's OK to buy yourself nice things!
     
    • Like x 1
  10. ShockOnT

    ShockOnT ⚡️⚡️⚡️⚡️⚡️

    Joined:
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    Location:
    Sydney
    Because they are roomier, easier to get in and out of, easier to load babies into car seats, have better clearance for steep ramps, provide good forward visibility and make the driver feel taller which has psychological benefits.
    The downside of reduced handling is not apparent in normal daily driving, and most SUVs are higher powered than their sedan equivalents, which masks the increased mass when accelerating. The reduced efficiency is less significant for low-mileage drives, so ironically SUVs suit the driving routines of school runs and shopping more than touring.
     
  11. drtimhill

    drtimhill Member

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2019
    Messages:
    976
    Location:
    Seattle
    The trouble is they USED to provide good forward visibility WHEN every other car was a (lower) sedan. Now almost every other car is an SUV we are back where we started, except about 8" higher up. Presumably at some stage a "super SUV" will appear that is even higher, and we all go up another notch until cars are on stilts (except then the sedans will then have the advantage because they can see under all the other cars!).
     
    • Like x 2
    • Funny x 2
  12. Grenadine

    Grenadine Member

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2019
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    536
    Location:
    Brisbane, Australia

    This is one of the best posts on this forum.
     
    • Like x 2
  13. ShockOnT

    ShockOnT ⚡️⚡️⚡️⚡️⚡️

    Joined:
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    3,261
    Location:
    Sydney
     
  14. Petergarrett38

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2018
    Messages:
    74
    Location:
    Gold Coast, Australia
    @ShockOnT Finances never stopped Elon! Don’t @ me :)
     
    • Funny x 1
  15. Blu Angel

    Blu Angel Member

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2016
    Messages:
    265
    Location:
    Mississauga, ON, Canada
    @orion2185 ,

    G'Day Mate!!

    Nice to hear you moved Gold Coast from USA a few years ago...great country to live in.

    I'm gonna throw you a curveball....
    I regularly visiit my daughter in Sydney and am amazed at the vast car market in Australia.
    You get the best of US, Japanese and European brands!

    However, I'm a Tesla 3 owner and really believe we should all do our part to transition to the EV world.
    There is a beautiful CUV soon available in Australia which is not available in the US or Canada.

    MG just unveiled their 2020 MG EZS which is coming to Australia in 3rd quarter 2020 (June-Aug)
    I pre-ordered with the local Sydney dealer with a nominal and fully refundable $1000 deposit.

    It is a loaded vehicle with OTA updates and a beautiful interior.....all for $47,000 (taxes included)
    Here's the link to one of the car reviews
    MG eZS electric car coming to Australia in 2020 | CarAdvice

    However, if you insist on buying only a Tesla, get the 3 now. I think its costs around $75.000 Aus
     
    • Informative x 1
    • Like x 1
  16. Vostok

    Vostok Active Member

    Joined:
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    1,169
    Location:
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    To the OP... Model Y will likely come here >2 years from first deliveries in the USA, based on what we saw with Model 3. So it would be quite a wait - probably won’t see them here until mid 2023, assuming first volume Model Y deliveries occur in the US in late 2020 as hypothesised.
     
  17. Vostok

    Vostok Active Member

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    1,169
    Location:
    Sydney
    Nailed it... SUVs are like a vehicle arms-race... they keep getting bigger, fatter, taller and then when that’s not good enough people buy huge, aggressive dual-cab trucks with trays in immaculate condition. Such people deserve every dollar of their huge weekly petrol/diesel bills, but unfortunately they are not paying for the collateral damage.
     
    • Like x 1
  18. Attica04

    Attica04 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2017
    Messages:
    44
    Location:
    Brisbane Australia
    ANZ and NAB have sharp car finance rates at the moment if you are a property owner. If not the rates are higher.

    If you have a standard 30% balloon then your looking at rates less than 4.50%.

    Own property - ABN for two years and registered for GST and have clear Tax portal (obtained from your accountant) for the business, Income declaration, rates notice and signed asset and liability statement and signed application form.

    If not a property owner, full application, two years tax returns and business financials, statements for liabilities, clear tax portal.

    If you have a deposit toward the purchase then may even be able to get better rates again

    PM if you want more details.

     
  19. EcoCloudIT

    EcoCloudIT Active Member

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    Location:
    Melbourne, VIC
    Why go thought ANZ/NAB when one can get 3.89% with Pepper or 3.9% with Macquarie? Both endorsed on the Tesla website (Pepper currently uses in the online car loan calculations)
     
  20. drtimhill

    drtimhill Member

    Joined:
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    Location:
    Seattle
    And sadly pedestrian accident rates are sky-rocketing as the SUVs are horrible for collateral damage (the high cars tend to push people under them rather than onto the hood).
     

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