Model 3 Perforamance Sleeper (P3D-)

[AlanSubie4Life]

get wider tires specific for the appropriate driving conditions?

Wider may not help that much (since the contact patch is the same area). I haven't seen comparative data on the contact patch for the exact same tire compounds. Physically there may be some benefits to a wider but shorter contact patch during braking, but it's likely not the dominant factor.

What will help for sure is a summer tire compound (or the highest performance compound appropriate for your conditions - you're in Florida so 99.9% of the time you'll be fine with summer tires...maybe more with global temperature trends...not too many freezes down there...).

MXM4 -> ~125 feet 60-0
PS4S -> ~105 feet 60-0

 

[Nuclear Fusion]

You should try it. Feels like 30% + more power when turning.

Where did you use it to notice this?

 

[AndrewAllen]

Where did you use it to notice this?

A Sunday morning was the first time I tried it. Just took my time feeling how the car would react over and over again going a little faster. I love it. It’s really how the car should be.

However because it turns off all the safety stuff I don’t drive with it a ton.

Its insane how much better the experience is when turning. It feels so much faster.

 

[cochran]

My M3p- is on a truck hope to get it within a week. So, I cannot comment on braking, yet. Has anyone considered upgrading their pads only? I wonder if there would be any improvement in stopping distance or just to not fade as quickly...on the track. Thoughts anyone?

Took delivery of the P3D- a few days ago! Breaking is not an issue!

 

[tvad]

Took delivery of the P3D- a few days ago! Breaking is not an issue!

LOL! Isn't spell check a b*tch?

 

[cochran]

LOL! Isn't spell check a b*tch?

 

[afadeev]

If you repeatedly panic stop over and over without cooldown to the point you fade factory brakes in street driving you probably shouldn't be allowed to drive on public roads....let alone doing so with your family in the car.

That's a silly statement.
Up here in NE, and certainly in NC, the routine flow of traffic on the highway is 75-85mph. If you go much slower than the flow of traffic, you increase your chances of causing an incident due to the speed disparity among cars.

It only takes someone fooling with a cell phone, radio, over-relying on AP, missing an exit, or just driving stupidly to cause random panic stops along the way. There is absolutely no guarantee that you wont run into a few of those in succession. Therefore, any highway worth cars, especially heavy ones, need quality brakes.

Which is what you get on German sedans build for autobahn speeds and eventualities.
Which is what you want to have in your Tesla, for the same reasons.

Your argument that a "cooldown" will be conveniently provided to not over-tax tiny stock brakes, is very cute.

Meanwhile anybody driving legally with get no benefit whatsoever from larger brakes in normal public road driving- but could see a very significant benefit to stickier tires since those are what actually stop the vehicle. ~20-30 feet shorter stopping distances on a Model 3 for example going from stock all-seasons to the PS4S.

Sticker tires absolutely shorten stopping distances, until such a time when undersized brake pads becomes the weak point.

Good luck convincing "all-season is good enough" crowd to upgrade.
Good luck convincing "any brakes are good enough" to appreciate performance brakes. Never mind, you one of them.

a

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

Good luck convincing "any brakes are good enough" to appreciate performance brakes. Never mind, you one of them.

He’s already said there are several legitimate reasons to want/prefer the larger/better brakes (and pads specifically).

There is absolutely no guarantee that you wont run into a few of those in succession. Therefore, any highway worth cars, especially heavy ones, need quality brakes.

That would seem...unlikely. I have the Performance brakes but cannot imagine any street or highway scenario in the United States where I would ever worry the least little bit about brake fade with the standard brakes. Unless I start at the top of a mountain with a battery at 100% or a cold-soaked battery (incapable of regen). I would worry then.

 

[Knightshade]

That's a silly statement.

It's really not.

Many of yours are though- let's consider them-

Up here in NE, and certainly in NC, the routine flow of traffic on the highway is 75-85mph. If you go much slower than the flow of traffic, you increase your chances of causing an incident due to the speed disparity among cars.

Well, so far so good...

It only takes someone fooling with a cell phone, radio, over-relying on AP, missing an exit, or just driving stupidly to cause random panic stops along the way.

To cause a panic stop? Sure. Which any factory brakes can handle from those speeds with 0 issue.

5 such stops in a row from those speeds before the brakes have any chance to cool?

No, you're confusing real life with the chase scene from the Jason Bourne movie now. Silly indeed!

There is absolutely no guarantee that you wont run into a few of those in succession.

I mean, there is- it's called reality.

Nobody ever runs into a situation there (in reality) where they're SLAMMING ON THE BRAKES FULL PANIC STOP FROM HIGHWAY SPEEDS over and over again.

If you are you're doing something very, very, badly wrong, and feel sorry for both your victims and passengers (where there may be considerable overlap)

Therefore, any highway worth cars, especially heavy ones, need quality brakes.

Thankfully, literally all production cars made in the last 5-10 years (and most much longer) have those and have 0 issue with any panic stop you might face in real life on US streets and highways.

Which is why upgraded brakes will do nothing at all useful for those people.


Folks driving on race tracks however might see a number of benefits already mentioned by myself and others (shorter normal stopping distance won't be among them of course)

Sticker tires absolutely shorten stopping distances, until such a time when undersized brake pads becomes the weak point.

Which is a race track- when the 5th time you're slamming on the brakes from 125 mph you're getting fade from overheating the system.

That simply does not happen at US street legal speeds in real life.

Good luck convincing "any brakes are good enough" to appreciate performance brakes. Never mind, you one of them.

And never mind folks who refuse to understand physics or reality from justifying useless upgrades

 

[Glamisduner]

I am taking delivery of a P3D- this week. Does anybody know if the P3D- has track mode enabled or disabled? Also, how important is the fact that the P3D- is missing the slightly lowered suspension of the P3D+ and the upgraded brakes? Will the lack of lowered suspension make the P3D- not hit the 0-60 in 3.2?

Thanks in advance!

It has the option, but it should be disabled by default.

As for brakes, the PUP version does have better brakes for the track, but if people are serious about tracking their cars both versions will likely need brake improvements.

The P3D- should be faster to 60 do to decreased wheel and brake rotor weight, still waiting to see this tested.

 

[ModelNforNerd]

I've run 11.691s quarter-miles with my lowered P3D- (mods in sig), seems just fine to me.

As for a track with TURNS.....haven't done that yet. But again....read the sig. I'm equipped for it if I so chose.

 

[ModelNforNerd]

I've run 11.691s quarter-miles with my lowered P3D- (mods in sig), seems just fine to me.

As for a track with TURNS.....haven't done that yet. But again....read the sig. I'm equipped for it if I so chose.

@tvad, you're FEISTY, aren't you? You've followed me all over the forums to disagree with everything I've said. But that's ok......

*poof*

 

[Electrph]

There is an entire thread on the P3D- btw
Anyway don’t know if already pointed out but P3D suspension is lower by 1cm not one inch and makes little or no diff 0 -60 nor 1/4 mile calculated absolutely no perceived diff
As for brakes have you seen standard brakes on LR AWD ? Same as my P3D- i assume .. they’re no slouches (dual pot in front) smaller calipers / smaller disks i know than P3D and with regen rarely use brakes even with very spirited driving
The argument that you would need to do multiple panic stops ever on the street is ridiculous unless u are driving like a complete ass

 

[Electrph]

Just putting it out there I'm jelly.. bye

Oh go back to your own P3D- thread !

 

[Electrph]

It's really not.

Many of yours are though- let's consider them-




Well, so far so good...




To cause a panic stop? Sure. Which any factory brakes can handle from those speeds with 0 issue.

5 such stops in a row from those speeds before the brakes have any chance to cool?

No, you're confusing real life with the chase scene from the Jason Bourne movie now. Silly indeed!




I mean, there is- it's called reality.

Nobody ever runs into a situation there (in reality) where they're SLAMMING ON THE BRAKES FULL PANIC STOP FROM HIGHWAY SPEEDS over and over again.

If you are you're doing something very, very, badly wrong, and feel sorry for both your victims and passengers (where there may be considerable overlap)




Thankfully, literally all production cars made in the last 5-10 years (and most much longer) have those and have 0 issue with any panic stop you might face in real life on US streets and highways.

Which is why upgraded brakes will do nothing at all useful for those people.


Folks driving on race tracks however might see a number of benefits already mentioned by myself and others (shorter normal stopping distance won't be among them of course)




Which is a race track- when the 5th time you're slamming on the brakes from 125 mph you're getting fade from overheating the system.

That simply does not happen at US street legal speeds in real life.




And never mind folks who refuse to understand physics or reality from justifying useless upgrades

Maybe it is unclear what is defined as a panic stop ..
I would define it as a FULL application of brakes from at least 15+ mph ..i have driven for 30 years in major metro areas probably faster than i should and never recall ever having even 2 panic stops in the same day much less successively to where brakes could not cool
Good luck with pushing evidence based science on the internet .. you’re fighting the good fight .. i don’t have the patience for it

 

[ElectricGhost]

Wider may not help that much (since the contact patch is the same area). I haven't seen comparative data on the contact patch for the exact same tire compounds. Physically there may be some benefits to a wider but shorter contact patch during braking, but it's likely not the dominant factor.

What will help for sure is a summer tire compound (or the highest performance compound appropriate for your conditions - you're in Florida so 99.9% of the time you'll be fine with summer tires...maybe more with global temperature trends...not too many freezes down there...).

MXM4 -> ~125 feet 60-0
PS4S -> ~105 feet 60-0

I believe those numbers but where did you get them? Wondering how much distance a 200 tread wear tire would cut out.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

I believe those numbers but where did you get them? Wondering how much distance a 200 tread wear tire would cut out.

@Daniel in SD did a comparison over a year ago (though he had wider PS4S than stock (265), to be clear). I guess I should get the VBOX from him and compare my PS4S, my Crossclimate+, and my RE-71R. Seems like a lot of work though.

 

[ElectricGhost]

@Daniel in SD did a comparison over a year ago (though he had wider PS4S than stock (265), to be clear). I guess I should get the VBOX from him and compare my PS4S, my Crossclimate+, and my RE-71R. Seems like a lot of work though.

Would love to see RE-71Rs compare to PS4s. 20 ft gain is completely worth and upgrade to me. But another 5 ft with RE71Rs may not be worth the trade off vs PS4s for a car that is not tracked. Also wondering RE71R vs Pilot Sport Cup 2s. I expect the REs to be better but how much in terms if street braking. Track performance requirements get a lot more dynamic/complex. Also do 265s make a difference vs 245s

 

[Daniel in SD]

@Daniel in SD did a comparison over a year ago (though he had wider PS4S than stock (265), to be clear). I guess I should get the VBOX from him and compare my PS4S, my Crossclimate+, and my RE-71R. Seems like a lot of work though.

PS4S were 105ft and MXM4 were 124ft (POLL: What will my 60-0 stopping distance be with Pilot Sport 4S 265/40R18s be?).

Would love to see RE-71Rs compare to PS4s. 20 ft gain is completely worth and upgrade to me. But another 5 ft with RE71Rs may not be worth the trade off vs PS4s for a car that is not tracked. Also wondering RE71R vs Pilot Sport Cup 2s. I expect the REs to be better but how much in terms if street braking. Track performance requirements get a lot more dynamic/complex. Also do 265s make a difference vs 245s

Tire Rack testing only got 1.7ft shorter for 50-0 which would only be 2.5ft for 60-0 (distance goes up with square of speed). PS4S are the best street tires IMHO. Main advantages of RE71R are that they'll take more abuse when driving at 10/10ths (i.e. Autocross and track) and they'll have better cornering feel (at the expense of a harsher ride and more noise).

https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests/testDisplay.jsp?ttid=242
https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests/testDisplay.jsp?ttid=248

Not sure how much advantage 265 has over 235 but I really like the way they look.