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Model 3 Performance Battery Degradation One Month (Story)

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For reference I'm at 3k and 90% give me 273 miles.

Just started using Teslafi and I really wish I had started to use it day one. But I have charged 3 times since signing up and the battery degraded 1 mile over a few days. I should noted that when new 90% was the 279 and it stayed there till about 1k, then it dropped fast over just a few charges to 276 and then by 2k 274 and for now at 3k 273.
The range displayed is just an estimate , as battery state of charge can’t be measured directly. The estimate may be more or less accurate over time depending on how the battery has been charged and discharged lately. A difference in 1 or 2 miles on the display is meaningless. Your battery didn’t “degrade 1 mile” of range, it’s just displaying 1 mile less. It could be colder that day, or the estimate isn’t as accurate as the day before, or maybe the 274 was really 273.6 and the 273 is really 273.4. Maybe you even lost 2 miles, not 1 mile. The batteries lose more capacity in the first few months than later on. Regardless the differences you’re citing are trivial. You’re reading way too much into this. Relax, delete TeslaFi, and just enjoy your car.
 
@TexasEV, I agree that @007Bond's numbers aren't of particular concern yet. I think 7 miles is within the normal flux of a battery. In addition, the number has been decreasing over time, which sounds like normal degradation.

@diamond.g, Are you concerned about your 267? Has it been slowing going to that level over your ownership? What is the most miles you've charged to at 100%?

I got a reply from Customer Service via email about this. The first paragraph is just false from my understanding. I believe it even says in the manual range estimate is how much energy is in the battery multiplied by a fixed rate. Second paragraph is not applicable. Third paragraph is close to being applicable.


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Tesal reply:
Thank you for reaching out to us here at Tesla Customer Support. As for your question about the battery degrading, after reviewing your vehicle, this would not be the case. You will see small changes in range as the vehicle processes your driving style. You can see this range go up and down depending on what features, options, and driving style. We have seen ranges go down by a few miles due to customers using quick accelerations from stops, higher speeds of travel, etc. The Tesla will analyze the driving style and adjust to give you a more accurate range. Some customers have changed driving styles and what features they use and seen an increase in range as well.

Majority of the time, showing range loss that you are advising of is due to overheat protection and mobile app usage. If your vehicle is in Sleep Mode and you use your app to check power and range, the vehicle will wake up, using more power, to advise you of the information you are requesting. The range you have advised does fall into the normal range of loss that can happen throughout the day.

As for your concern with possible "Battery Degradation", if you see a dramatic change, such as 10% or above.. ie. 303-302 and now getting 250 at 90%, then we would want to get your vehicle to service. Your Tesla will always try to give you the best and accurate information as to keep you informed.
 
@TexasEV, I agree that @007Bond's numbers aren't of particular concern yet. I think 7 miles is within the normal flux of a battery. In addition, the number has been decreasing over time, which sounds like normal degradation.

@diamond.g, Are you concerned about your 267? Has it been slowing going to that level over your ownership? What is the most miles you've charged to at 100%?

I got a reply from Customer Service via email about this. The first paragraph is just false from my understanding. I believe it even says in the manual range estimate is how much energy is in the battery multiplied by a fixed rate. Second paragraph is not applicable. Third paragraph is close to being applicable.


----
Tesal reply:
Thank you for reaching out to us here at Tesla Customer Support. As for your question about the battery degrading, after reviewing your vehicle, this would not be the case. You will see small changes in range as the vehicle processes your driving style. You can see this range go up and down depending on what features, options, and driving style. We have seen ranges go down by a few miles due to customers using quick accelerations from stops, higher speeds of travel, etc. The Tesla will analyze the driving style and adjust to give you a more accurate range. Some customers have changed driving styles and what features they use and seen an increase in range as well.

Majority of the time, showing range loss that you are advising of is due to overheat protection and mobile app usage. If your vehicle is in Sleep Mode and you use your app to check power and range, the vehicle will wake up, using more power, to advise you of the information you are requesting. The range you have advised does fall into the normal range of loss that can happen throughout the day.

As for your concern with possible "Battery Degradation", if you see a dramatic change, such as 10% or above.. ie. 303-302 and now getting 250 at 90%, then we would want to get your vehicle to service. Your Tesla will always try to give you the best and accurate information as to keep you informed.
Ironically enough I haven't actually been able to get 100%. Charging seems to stop at 99% (have only full charged twice since I have owned the car). To be honest I don't keep the car in distance mode for display. I choose energy (cause when using Nav trip shows % not miles) so I don't really worry about it. The energy display helps assuage any fears of how far I can go based on how I am driving more so than what capacity the BMS thinks the battery has.
 
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@TexasEV, I agree that @007Bond's numbers aren't of particular concern yet. I think 7 miles is within the normal flux of a battery. In addition, the number has been decreasing over time, which sounds like normal degradation.

@diamond.g, Are you concerned about your 267? Has it been slowing going to that level over your ownership? What is the most miles you've charged to at 100%?

I got a reply from Customer Service via email about this. The first paragraph is just false from my understanding. I believe it even says in the manual range estimate is how much energy is in the battery multiplied by a fixed rate. Second paragraph is not applicable. Third paragraph is close to being applicable.


----
Tesal reply:
Thank you for reaching out to us here at Tesla Customer Support. As for your question about the battery degrading, after reviewing your vehicle, this would not be the case. You will see small changes in range as the vehicle processes your driving style. You can see this range go up and down depending on what features, options, and driving style. We have seen ranges go down by a few miles due to customers using quick accelerations from stops, higher speeds of travel, etc. The Tesla will analyze the driving style and adjust to give you a more accurate range. Some customers have changed driving styles and what features they use and seen an increase in range as well.

Majority of the time, showing range loss that you are advising of is due to overheat protection and mobile app usage. If your vehicle is in Sleep Mode and you use your app to check power and range, the vehicle will wake up, using more power, to advise you of the information you are requesting. The range you have advised does fall into the normal range of loss that can happen throughout the day.

As for your concern with possible "Battery Degradation", if you see a dramatic change, such as 10% or above.. ie. 303-302 and now getting 250 at 90%, then we would want to get your vehicle to service. Your Tesla will always try to give you the best and accurate information as to keep you informed.
I've started keeping a log of sorts from 9/13 when I first contacted service about this issue. They have told me to keep logging and they said they downloaded my information from the car and it doesn't show any faults so I'm not sure exactly how much they can remotely monitor but told me to keep logging and try the recalibration by depleting down to a low charge of 10-20% and then to 100% then report back my findings. Since I don't take many long drives, it took me a few days without charging to get it down but the results aren't as good as I would have hoped. Another longtime Tesla owner said it may take several times to see a result but I'm not going to do that to my new car since it has been reported many places that it isn't good to frequently deplete to a low charge and charge excessively high.
Here are some of my log findings:
9/13/18 parked for the evening range at 157
9/14/18 charge completed to 70% at 217 by 0058 (I charge nightly to 70% and this was exactly 70% of 310)
At 0607 still plugged in, the charge was still 217
By 0800 it had dropped to 199 still parked and plugged in.
By 1130 it was down to 194 when I started using the car.
9/15/18 Charge completed 70% 217 at 0029
0740 went up to 219
Used down to 188 when parked but fell to 179 by 2230 before scheduled charge at 2300.
9/16/18 Charge complete 70% 217
0630 went up to 222
0946 still at 222 when drive began, parked at 184
9/17/18 Charge complete at 70% 214
0717 216 drive/parked 169
Skip ahead to 9/30/18 Charge to 70% 196
10/1/18 Charged to 199
10/2/18 196
10/5/18 Finally dropped down by not charging nightly to a range of 45 miles set charge to 90% 1100 start, which reached 261 by 0651
on 10/6/18. This is when something strange happened as I was deciding when to finish charging it up to 100% to begin the days driving.
I'm looking at the app at 0700 and it had already dropped back down to 255 and was clicking down as I watched. By 0713 it dropped to 240 for no apparent reason. It was still parked and plugged into my UMC on a NEMA 14/50 so even if it was preconditioning the battery temp, why the big drop? At 0741 the actual charge range meter was indicating the range drop so I started the charge again to bring it back up to 90% which completed at 0826 with 266 miles showing. By 0929 it had dropped to 263 so I increased the charge limit to 95% and at 1000 it showed a range of 280 miles at 95%. At 1056 it had dropped to 277 and I raised the limit to 100% which completed at 1204 with 296 miles showing.
296 is quite a bit lower than the 310 I was getting consistently for the first 2 months or rather the 217 = 70% of 310. I only started being concerned because of the drops after charging but before using the car while it was still parked and plugged in but now I feel there are more issues at hand.
I've decided not to obsess about it too much and I've switched the range over to % display so I can bury my head in the sand while Tesla figures it out. I'm currently not charging the car as I run it back down to 70%. Will be calling Tesla to report my recalibration failure tomorrow.
 
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anyway. TL:DR 292 miles full charge after 40 days - Bad Cell - Getting a new Pack

The #1 lesson I took away from this thread is to be sure to use a semi-colon and not a colon when typing "TL;DR". ;)

Joking aside, if there's a bad cell, shouldn't the "world's most advanced battery pack" be able to automatically detect it and throw an error code without relying on the owner to notice a small range reduction and then call Tesla to run a special diagnostic test? After all, it's already indirectly detecting it via the reduced range. Seems like it would be a pretty simple thing to automate.

Maybe this particular cell problem just wasn't large enough in magnitude to trigger such an error from routine pack monitoring(?). Maybe Tesla purposely sets the threshold for detecting these kinds of problems fairly high so it reduces warranty costs(?).
 
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Joking aside, if there's a bad cell, shouldn't the BMS in the "world's most advanced battery pack" be able to automatically detect it and throw an error code without relying on the owner to notice a small range reduction and then call Tesla to run a special diagnostic test?

Maybe this particular cell problem just wasn't large enough in magnitude to trigger such an error from routine pack monitoring(?).

Maybe the BMS is configured to only report an error for a warrantable issue. Remember that on the Model 3 the battery is only warrantied to have 70% of the original capacity... So when it gets down to 217 miles is when Tesla would have to deal with it. (Or if it fails to charge or supply power to drive the car.)
 
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Maybe the BMS is configured to only report an error for a warrantable issue. Remember that on the Model 3 the battery is only warrantied to have 70% of the original capacity... So when it gets down to 217 miles is when Tesla would have to deal with it. (Or if it fails to charge or supply power to drive the car.)
That would really be a bummer to see a LR drop below the advertised range of the SR before it was covered or reported as a problem. That $9k would have to be thought of as a chartible donation to the Tesla mission.
 
That would really be a bummer to see a LR drop below the advertised range of the SR before it was covered or reported as a problem. That $9k would have to be thought of as a chartible donation to the Tesla mission.

Actually the SR is currently projected to have a range of ~217 (The site shows an estimate of 215-220), so it would be dropping to the same range. But the SR will only be warrantied to 70% as well, which would be ~152 miles.
 
How many miles have you put on the car? You're going to have to get used to losing battery capacity over time. Even Tesla's battery warranty states that they expect the Model 3 to have 70% minimum after 8 years.
Before anyone starts worrying, that’s a lowball number. There’s a ton of data that shows cars lose ~5% first 18 months and very little after that. My 6 year old P85 has only lost 5%.
 
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Actually the SR is currently projected to have a range of ~217 (The site shows an estimate of 215-220), so it would be dropping to the same range. But the SR will only be warrantied to 70% as well, which would be ~152 miles.
Still would be a bummer after paying $9k for a LR that every buyer I know expected to get 310 miles of range for that price. I know range isn't guaranteed to be that and real range will vary very much depending on many factors but since Teslas aren't supposed to be using driving style or conditions in the initial range displayed, shouldn't all LR Model 3s display an initial range equal to that or at least an explanation as to why it doesn't. I would expect that a Model 3 charged and still plugged in would and should show a range close to what it was charged to when the charge was complete. If not, why do they recommend leaving the car plugged in so the battery doesn't get used for maintenance items or preheat/cooling the car? Battery degradation is expected over the life of the car to a reasonable extent but not on a new car with such low miles.
 
Before anyone starts worrying, that’s a lowball number. There’s a ton of data that shows cars lose ~5% first 18 months and very little after that. My 6 year old P85 has only lost 5%.
Guess I'm still good at 3200 miles and picked up my car 6/11/18. My recalibration test resulted in a range of 296 miles out of the 310 I had. So that's only a 4.5% loss... if it stops there I shouldn't expect any more than another .5 % for the remainder of 5 years.
 
I got a reply from Customer Service via email about this. The first paragraph is just false from my understanding. I believe it even says in the manual range estimate is how much energy is in the battery multiplied by a fixed rate. Second paragraph is not applicable. Third paragraph is close to being applicable.


----
Tesla reply:
Thank you for reaching out to us here at Tesla Customer Support. As for your question about the battery degrading, after reviewing your vehicle, this would not be the case. You will see small changes in range as the vehicle processes your driving style. You can see this range go up and down depending on what features, options, and driving style. We have seen ranges go down by a few miles due to customers using quick accelerations from stops, higher speeds of travel, etc. The Tesla will analyze the driving style and adjust to give you a more accurate range. Some customers have changed driving styles and what features they use and seen an increase in range as well.
.
That paragraph contradicts everything Tesla has said about rated range from day 1. I think this rep is misinformed. It's always been EPA rated range, period, end of story. Maybe he's confusing it with the energy app trip planner of the Model S and X? That shows projected range based on recent driving (past 5, 15, or 30 miles), not the battery meter. Unless this drastic change in what is displayed by the battery meter is confirmed by someone much higher up at Tesla, I would just regard it as more stupid stuff front line Tesla people have said.
 
I'm just back from service.
My 3 had been consistently fine for a month (charging to 70% every night), then overnight lost 4% (to 298 @100%). I had done the calibration thing (charge to 100%, run down to 5%, back up to 100%) with no effect. They told me that if the pack had a problem, the car constantly monitors it and would inform them automatically (and then they would download logs, which may be what they mean by "remotely monitor"), and "they all are doing something like this", and it just is how it goes...I trust these service guys, been dealing with them for 5 years and they are knowledgable and conscientious, but of course, this is a new thing for everyone...
 
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I picked up a P3 a week ago and it shows about 304 max if i do the math on the %. It's a little concerning since i've had a RWD3 since Feb and it still shows 310 doing the same math after 9k miles. Guess i'll see how it goes over the next few weeks.
 
Post count does not make one an actual knowledge holder. It's sad that you have to attack me for my join date. You don't know why or what I did after joining (did you read all of my 230+ posts), so just because I joined on x date and have y posts doesn't mean I know everything or understand everything. It does show that perhaps I have a lot of enthusiasm for the car (which I certainly do). I have already admitted that TIL about the range/miles thing now.

I have driver the S and X, but that was over a limited timespan. The 3 is my full time EV, and as such there are thing that you pick up on and learn about that you do not when you have limited exposure to such cars. I hope you can be more understanding when Joe Sixpack makes the same mistake.

Plus as I pointed out the manual doesn't even make this point clear 100% clear.


I have to say, it is a little odd that the manual doesn't make this clear. I had to learn it through the forums, too. I know Tesla owners are probably heavy forum users/readers, but an explanation directly from Tesla would be a nice touch.
 
On another thread there seems to be a fairly reliable comment that Tesla can remotely monitor the Model S but not the Model 3....
That may have been my comments over on the Tesla page forums recently/last week. And indeed that's what the Service guy in the Dublin service center told me, when I was facing this same issue (at 100% SOC, getting 291 stated range, even after a 10-100% charge cycle) with my 4-month old 5,400 mile First Prod RWD 3.

I do understand, though, that Tesla employees for whatever reason can be incorrect sometimes. But, it's odd that the service folks would be that incorrect, though (one thing if it's a sales person being wrong about a service question; quite another thing for a *service* person to be wrong about a *service* question). Still, this is what I was told by the Dublin Service Center folks. I hope that it's wrong, as I'd like for them to remotely be able to view at least some metrics of my battery health.
 
That may have been my comments over on the Tesla page forums recently/last week. And indeed that's what the Service guy in the Dublin service center told me, when I was facing this same issue (at 100% SOC, getting 291 stated range, even after a 10-100% charge cycle) with my 4-month old 5,400 mile First Prod RWD 3.

What was the outcome of your situation?
 
@TexasEV, I agree that @007Bond's numbers aren't of particular concern yet. I think 7 miles is within the normal flux of a battery. In addition, the number has been decreasing over time, which sounds like normal degradation.

@diamond.g, Are you concerned about your 267? Has it been slowing going to that level over your ownership? What is the most miles you've charged to at 100%?

I got a reply from Customer Service via email about this. The first paragraph is just false from my understanding. I believe it even says in the manual range estimate is how much energy is in the battery multiplied by a fixed rate. Second paragraph is not applicable. Third paragraph is close to being applicable.


----
Tesal reply:
Thank you for reaching out to us here at Tesla Customer Support. As for your question about the battery degrading, after reviewing your vehicle, this would not be the case. You will see small changes in range as the vehicle processes your driving style. You can see this range go up and down depending on what features, options, and driving style. We have seen ranges go down by a few miles due to customers using quick accelerations from stops, higher speeds of travel, etc. The Tesla will analyze the driving style and adjust to give you a more accurate range. Some customers have changed driving styles and what features they use and seen an increase in range as well.

Majority of the time, showing range loss that you are advising of is due to overheat protection and mobile app usage. If your vehicle is in Sleep Mode and you use your app to check power and range, the vehicle will wake up, using more power, to advise you of the information you are requesting. The range you have advised does fall into the normal range of loss that can happen throughout the day.

As for your concern with possible "Battery Degradation", if you see a dramatic change, such as 10% or above.. ie. 303-302 and now getting 250 at 90%, then we would want to get your vehicle to service. Your Tesla will always try to give you the best and accurate information as to keep you informed.
Whaaaat?? Driving style?? What about Rated Range?? I though this thread just got done arguing about whether Tesla factors in driving style, and the rather firm conclusion was that Teslas do NOT take driving style when calculating range . . . . that it was purely a "rated range", based on some constant/assumption of wh/mile used.

I'm not disputing that the Tesla folks told you what you say they told you. I'm just expressing confusion about what it is. . . . . I wish there was a "final answer" on this!
 
I'm not disputing that the Tesla folks told you what you say they told you. I'm just expressing confusion about what it is. . . . . I wish there was a "final answer" on this!

Yeah, I'm not buying that part of the answer. I think it is pretty clear the range is a fixed rated range. It could be they misunderstood my problem. Perhaps thought my question was about phantom drain, or the nav estimations, or the new v9 energy graphs... who knows.
 
What was the outcome of your situation?
They first told me they couldn't remotely access my battery stats/metrics (something which seems hard to believe, but that's what they told me).

They (well, not "they" - one service guy was saying all this) also said that, after talking with a tech about my situation, that it must be due to a decrease in ambient temperature that's causing the reduction in range, nothing else. This is patently not what the issue is, though, because around here in the East Bay, in NorCal, the temperature has not dropped appreciably and was actually in the low 80's over the course of the two days I did my 10-100% cycle. So, I don't know. Not a satisfying answer.

One thing that did happen, is a day later, my extrapolated range went from 291 to 300-ish. So maybe the cycling from 10-100% did have an effect, just not immediate. With my range pretty consistently penciling out to 300-ish at 100% charge, I'm probably not going to pursue this much further, for the time being.
 
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