Model 3 Performance Battery Degradation One Month (Story)

[gaspi101]

Nothing is snarky and my comments are pretty informed.

The range never "tanked" because you never actually used it nor tested it.

Mostly extrapolated data from TeslaFi.
As ttowhy the BMS started being awkward after a while and not immediately - this is simple, it takes time for the BMS to screw itself...

I don’t know why you keep insisting you know what I’ve done—I don’t k ow why you just keep assuming instead of reading. you should really learn to read more closely. I said I did road trips and long drives. In fact, During the last 8 months, I have done several road trips where I could definitely have used the range. I could really have used the missing 25 miles (at that time) during my drive from Miami to Manhattan and back in late May. Or 38 miles when I drove 250 miles and back to a triathlon training camp for the weekend. All of these had deep discharges and high state of charge charges.

Honestly man, if you’re going to add something constructive, please do that. Otherwise, stop talking out of your ass. It’s getting a bit annoying.

 

[VT_EE]

Sometimes it is just better to let it drop.....

 

[gaspi101]

Sometimes it is just better to let it drop.....

Wise words. You’re right.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

@gaspi101, Yeah I am not sure why there is so much supercilious behavior around this topic.

There is nothing wrong with the TeslaFi data on rated miles and what it says you have - it always is very close to what the in-car real value is. The conclusions about capacity in kWh (which were erroneous when based on TeslaFi numbers) are kind of inconsequential, because the rated miles likely do not lie. The fact is that for some reason, your battery very likely contains less energy than that in most vehicles. This would be easy to definitively show to all the doubters, if you do a reasonably long road trip and capture the before and after data. It is probably even something that can be done with existing TeslaFi data from your prior long trips - just have to be careful which data to ignore (I think just % and rated miles used would be sufficient and would be ok to use from TeslaFi). But likely not much point in perusing historical data, to be honest. The available energy loss is likely pretty real.

No idea what the root cause might be. Really all you can do is quantify the loss, with a large continuous discharge, and document it.

 

[gaspi101]

@gaspi101, Yeah I am not sure why there is so much supercilious behavior around this topic.

There is nothing wrong with the TeslaFi data on rated miles and what it says you have - it always is very close to what the in-car real value is. The conclusions about capacity in kWh (which were erroneous when based on TeslaFi numbers) are kind of inconsequential, because the rated miles likely do not lie. The fact is that for some reason, your battery very likely contains less energy than that in most vehicles. This would be easy to definitively show to all the doubters, if you do a reasonably long road trip and capture the before and after data. It is probably even something that can be done with existing TeslaFi data from your prior long trips - just have to be careful which data to ignore (I think just % and rated miles used would be sufficient and would be ok to use from TeslaFi). But likely not much point in perusing historical data, to be honest. The available energy loss is likely pretty real.

No idea what the root cause might be. Really all you can do is quantify the loss, with a large continuous discharge, and document it.

i hear you. This is good advice. Thanks, man.

 

[TimothyHW3]

I don’t know why you keep insisting you know what I’ve done—I don’t k ow why you just keep assuming instead of reading. you should really learn to read more closely. I said I did road trips and long drives. In fact, During the last 8 months, I have done several road trips where I could definitely have used the range.

Honestly man, if you’re going to add something constructive, please do that. Otherwise, stop talking out of your ass. It’s getting a bit annoying.

Well, you assume I said something which I didn't...
I was talking about the 6 weeks when the charge was ok. Did any of those occur during these 6 weeks or after?!

 

[gaspi101]

Well, you assume I said something which I didn't...
I was talking about the 6 weeks when the charge was ok.
Did any of those occur during these 6 weeks or after?!

any of those what? road trips? Yes, several.

 

[TimothyHW3]

any of those what? road trips? Yes, several.

And you discharged a lot and charged pretty high on those trips in the weeks where it was all ok?
And right about the point where it tanked you mostly started charging from 60-90% daily or every other day?

 

[gaspi101]

No, the longer road-trips were mostly after the expiration of the 6-week period, although I did do some deeper discharge/charges during this period. Again, exclusively shallow charges with some deeper discharges during the first 2 weeks, and then returned to normal 40-90 charges or thereabouts thereafter. Several roadtrips throughout. Then, after many months of continuously losing range, I decided to do what's objectively best for the battery, and do shallow 55-85 charges. Now, I'm back to charging 40-90, and will advise if any changes are seen during the next month or two. Again, this is not a charging habits issue, or if it is, I'm not sure what it is. Bottom line: I've tried charging with regular deep discharges/charges, done roadtrips to "calibrate" and done a CAC reset. It's not a charging issue. It's something likely wrong with the CAC system--will just hope it fixes itself with an update.

 

[TimothyHW3]

Now, I'm back to charging 40-90, and will advise if any changes are seen during the next month or two.

40%-90% will not do anything to help the BMS calibration. If anything, a deep discharge to 100%-0%-100% a couple of times is what people suggest as proper calibration...But that isn't certain either.
If that doesn't help I think another CAC reset and THEN charging from 30% 40% -90% and never keeping the car at 90% for longer periods (like every night) is what I believe will give you the longest benefit. If that doesn't work then it might be a hardware issue, but then you will know for sure. Now you are just speculating.

Again, this is not a charging habits issue, or if it is, I'm not sure what it is. Bottom line: I've tried charging with regular deep discharges/charges, done roadtrips to "calibrate" and done a CAC reset.

I obviously disagree with that statement.

You never actually did any deep discharges (below 5%) and the CAC reset actually did help you for more than 6 weeks so to me that is pretty good evidence that it is indeed a charging issue as Tesla suggested.

But you are entitled to your own oppinion obviously.

 

[gaspi101]

Now you are just speculating.


I obviously disagree with that statement.

You never actually did any deep discharges (below 5%) and the CAC reset actually did help you for more than 6 weeks so to me that is pretty good evidence that it is indeed a charging issue as Tesla suggested.

But you are entitled to your own oppinion obviously.

again, where the hell do you get off telling me you know what I did not do? I did PLENTY of sub-5% from near 100% charges while doing several thousand-mile long trips, all while rated mileage decreased. In fact, I stated this in post #786: “taken several road trips where I charged to 100%, then immediately discharged to nearly zero, road trips of varying length...”. You have a reading comprehension problem. And to top it off your advice is exactly the opposite of what Tesla has instructed me to do now??

I’m done with this conversation and with you.

 

[TimothyHW3]

again, where the hell do you get off telling me you know what I did not do? I did PLENTY of sub-5% from near 100% charges while doing several thousand-mile long trips, all while rated mileage decreased. In fact, I stated this in post #786: “taken several road trips where I charged to 100%, then immediately discharged to nearly zero, road trips of varying length...”. You have a reading comprehension problem. And to top it off your advice is exactly the opposite of what Tesla has instructed me to do now??

I

Me or you?!

Here is a quote from Tesla that YOU posted:
"They say that over the past month, I've been charging from 50% to 80% nightly and that this is messing up the calculated range, and instead, I should charge from 30-40% to 90%"

Here is a quote from another thread I posted about it BEFORE you posted this advice from Tesla...

"
So there are two optimal charging strategies:
1. Good for the battery: 40%-80% daily and if you can't get to 40%, wait for whenever you can. This requires you to get the phantom drain in check see below video on zero to 1 mile phantom drain a day.

2. Good for the BMS: now and again(depends on how many miles you do, let's say after 2-3 weeks) 10%-90% or even 100% when you plan a long trip and can charge to 100% and unplug right away.
"

That looks to me, even with my reading comprehension problem, to the same exact advice as Tesla gave you.

How what I am saying amounts to "the exact opposite of what Tesla is suggesting" eludes me...

And regarding those trips below 5%, I asked you wether you did that when the battery is fine and you said yes...So there you have it.

It is not me who has a reading comprehension problem, but it is you who has hard time taking advices and understanding these same advices.

 

[HostileHarry]

I figured I would add another data point for the LR AWD battery charge. I'm currently sitting at 262 rated miles @ 90% charge. I'm at about 21k miles on the car.

I've noticed a few others sitting at 262 rated miles at 90%...

 

[birjman]

I have been charging 30-35% -> 80% on average every 5-6 days and have seen some (possible) BMS improvement. LR RWD went from 296 max to 305 in the past 4 weeks. I know it's not ideal on the battery but the rated range has been driving me nuts.

Previously I was charging 60%->85% every couple of days.

 

[VT_EE]

I have been charging 30-35% -> 80% on average every 5-6 days and have seen some (possible) BMS improvement. LR RWD went from 296 max to 305 in the past 4 weeks. I know it's not ideal on the battery but the rated range has been driving me nuts.

Previously I was charging 60%->85% every couple of days.

I started doing the same. I only charge every 3 to 4 days now once it gets below 30%.

 

[TimothyHW3]

I started doing the same. I only charge every 3 to 4 days now once it gets below 30%.

Hm, so you ended up following my advice even after all the dislikes and the misquotations... Brilliant...

 

[VT_EE]

Hm, so you ended up following my advice even after all the dislikes and the misquotations... Brilliant...

Actually the disagrees are for your condescending attitude to some of the posters here not necessary the information you are posting. Avoid talking to people like they are below you and you'll go far in life.

 

[gaspi101]

TimothyHW3,

From my post #768: "So I got a call from Tesla just now (in anticipation of the service visit next week), and they said that...I should charge from 30-40% to 90% for at least a month and that should correct the problem."

From your post # 810: "40%-90% will not do anything to help the BMS calibration."

Then you write a new snarky post, #812:

Me or you?!
...
How what I am saying amounts to "the exact opposite of what Tesla is suggesting" eludes me...

...

It is not me who has a reading comprehension problem, but it is you who has hard time taking advices and understanding these same advices.

I believe the foregoing answers your questions. (1) You; (2) If things elude you, just sit for a moment and read thoroughly. For how your advice is the opposite of what Tesla has instructed in my specific case, see above.

As others have said, dial down the nasty tone, it will serve you better in life.

 

[lanbo]

TimothyHW3,

From my post #768: "So I got a call from Tesla just now (in anticipation of the service visit next week), and they said that...I should charge from 30-40% to 90% for at least a month and that should correct the problem."

I just got a call from Tesla and, instead, they advised me to 100% charge to 15% charge once a month.

I told them there are a lot of rumours on forums about these BMS calibration procedures and I asked them about an official document describing this procedure. They said they don't have any written document.
I insisted whether this procedure was an official procedure or it was his personal opinion. He told me he got this information from an engineer (I guess it's oral -not written- communication). Tesla is not helping by giving slightly different oral advice to costumers and not write a short guide describing this procedure for everyone.

To sum up, they told me it is normal to see a 5% less capacity after 6 months & 10,000 kms.

 

[gaspi101]

I just got a call from Tesla and, instead, they advised me to 100% charge to 15% charge once a month.

I told them there are a lot of rumours on forums about these BMS calibration procedures and I asked them about an official document describing this procedure. They said they don't have any written document.
I insisted whether this procedure was an official procedure or it was his personal opinion. He told me he got this information from an engineer (I guess it's oral -not written- communication). Tesla is not helping by giving slightly different oral advice to costumers and not write a short guide describing this procedure for everyone.

To sum up, they told me it is normal to see a 5% less capacity after 6 months & 10,000 kms.

That makes total sense, and it matches what we're seeing here...But a lot of people are seeing a lot more than 5% after 6 months/10,000km. Some people have 18% capacity reduction at or near that time frame...I agree--it would be very helpful to have an official report, but I think to do that would require them to admit they have an issue with something, and they don't want any bad press, given how crazy hungry the shorts are.