Model 3 Performance Changed 20" OEM Wheels to 19" OEM Wheels - The Economics and the Pros & Cons

[comanchepilot]

19" wheels with taller tires [but the same diameter] will naturally affect handling. It will not be as crisp but might not be noticeable if you drive it like Miss Daisy. The M3P handling improvements from lowering the vehicle and the shorter tires will only be noticed as you get closer to the limits. Also - the tires will not have the same grip even if they are the same width. These are all things that are additive at the margins. Take a 90 degree corner at 30mph and you might see the traction control kicking in slowing you down and reducing acceleration to make the turn - whereas with 20" wheels and shorter tires that doesn't happen because there is less flex in the tires.

If you have never driven a sports sedan or sports car closer to the limits you might not notice- I would - but you might not.

The differences are subtle - and if you don't notice because you don't push the car you just won't. But in a situation where the traction control systems kick in and reduce acceleration or you see some body lean you will not as cleanly accelerate out of the turn at speed that you otherwise would.

As for cost - if you have to spend $3000 on wheels you can buy a lot of sets of tires with the difference. Figure a set of 20" tires cost $1700 mounted and balanced whereas a set of equivalent 235's on 19" wheels costs $1200 - thats $500 a set and that means you need to run through 6 sets of tires to pay off the cost of the wheels - 6 sets of tires at 25000 miles is 150,000 miles to pay for the wheels. Plus - you will likely get less when you sell the car since it should have the 20" wheels on it.

Then there is the specious savings of 'mileage.' 235's are 235's are 235's. I live in a hilly area - and I've seen a lifetime average of 278w / mi. I one pedal drive almost exclusively. I get under 300 w/ mi in my wife's model S and she gets 345! It's about planning the vehicle's speed for the traffic in front of you. She uses the brakes a lot more than I do. Those of you seeing over 300w/mi in a Model 3 need to adjust your driving habits. I hit the throttle often - to get around slow pokes, make lights, etc - but I'm not jackrabbiting the car - nice and smooth bumps that mileage up.

Finally - consider that a taller softer sidewall wheel and tire prob gets slightly WORSE mileage since its using energy flexing the tire - which improves ride but at the expense of both mileage and handling. As for potholes? Avoid them - pay attention to whats in front of you. We do have pretty great forward vision in the Model 3.

 

[tm1v2]

19" wheels with taller tires [but the same diameter] will naturally affect handling. It will not be as crisp but might not be noticeable if you drive it like Miss Daisy. The M3P handling improvements from lowering the vehicle and the shorter tires will only be noticed as you get closer to the limits. Also - the tires will not have the same grip even if they are the same width. These are all things that are additive at the margins. Take a 90 degree corner at 30mph and you might see the traction control kicking in slowing you down and reducing acceleration to make the turn - whereas with 20" wheels and shorter tires that doesn't happen because there is less flex in the tires.

@comanchepilot That is super misleading. Yeah non-performance tires with soft mushy sidewalls can feel even softer with taller sidewalls. But sidewalls can be made sturdy, and they often are for good performance tires. You think F1 racecars which for years used huge sidewalls on 13" wheels had mushy handling? The only reason they switched to bigger wheels / shorter sidewalls was for marketing, because most people think big wheels are cool, and bigger wheels can fit bigger sponsor logos. Check out McLaren's "Chrome" wheels. The bigger wheels / shorter sidewalls made the cars slower with all else equal!

https://www.racefans.net/2020/06/04...ake-f1-cars-up-to-two-seconds-slower-allison/

When I switched from stock 235/35R20 280TW tires (on the 20x9" ET34 Uberturbines) to 245/45R18 300TW tires (on 18x8.5" ET35 wheels) I gained grip and didn't lose any responsiveness. Why? Because it's the tires that matter and I picked better-performing tires, and specifically tires reputed to have very sturdy sidewalls with good steering response. A tire can be responsive with taller sidewalls, it just has to be designed / built with that as a priority. (And yes I push my car to its limits. I specifically did so before and after the swap, and I swapped at 960 miles on odometer, so I was comparing fresh vs fresh tires, no worn out tires involved.)

I promise you the 20" M3P wheel sizing is just for looks/marketing. Those excessively heavy wheels and rubberband thin sidewalls are not doing you any performance favors compared to 19" or 18". Put the same tires on smaller diameter lighter wheels and they'll grip just as well, and you'll even get a marginal but measurable performance benefit. Heck probably the taller sidewalls will grip better over bad pavement. Drive too fast over bad pavement with stupid big Tesla wheels wearing rubberband tires and they'll crack - that's not good for performance! (I say that from firsthand experience.)

Big wheels came to be associated with performance because they're needed to fit ever-growing brakes as cars keep getting faster. Which is legit. F1 didn't need big wheels because they use inboard brakes. Normal road cars don't use inboard brakes because the packaging would be terrible.

Now car buyers associate big diameter wheels with performance, thinking the big wheel diameter helps handling. That has been encouraged by automakers like Tesla, because a bigger wheel is a really visually tangible thing that's easy to upsell for $$$$ with only marginal extra cost to produce. Automakers therefore like to pair better performing tires with bigger wheels. The better tires provide the real performance upgrade, while the bigger wheels provide higher profit.

Note large diameter tires - as in the outer diameter - can have real performance benefits. But don't confuse that for wheel diameter.

 

[tm1v2]

@comanchepilot That is super misleading. Yeah non-performance tires with soft mushy sidewalls can feel even softer with taller sidewalls. But sidewalls can be made sturdy, and they often are for good performance tires. You think F1 racecars which for years used huge sidewalls on 13" wheels had mushy handling? The only reason they switched to bigger wheels / shorter sidewalls was for marketing, because most people think big wheels are cool, and bigger wheels can fit bigger sponsor logos. Check out McLaren's "Chrome" wheels. The bigger wheels / shorter sidewalls made the cars slower with all else equal!

https://www.racefans.net/2020/06/04...ake-f1-cars-up-to-two-seconds-slower-allison/

When I switched from stock 235/35R20 280TW tires (on the 20x9" ET34 Uberturbines) to 245/45R18 300TW tires (on 18x8.5" ET35 wheels) I gained grip and didn't lose any responsiveness. Why? Because it's the tires that matter and I picked better-performing tires, and specifically tires reputed to have very sturdy sidewalls with good steering response. A tire can be responsive with taller sidewalls, it just has to be designed / built with that as a priority. (And yes I push my car to its limits. I specifically did so before and after the swap, and I swapped at 960 miles on odometer, so I was comparing fresh vs fresh tires, no worn out tires involved.)

I promise you the 20" M3P wheel sizing is just for looks/marketing. Those excessively heavy wheels and rubberband thin sidewalls are not doing you any performance favors compared to 19" or 18". Put the same tires on smaller diameter lighter wheels and they'll grip just as well, and you'll even get a marginal but measurable performance benefit. Heck probably the taller sidewalls will grip better over bad pavement. Drive too fast over bad pavement with stupid big Tesla wheels wearing rubberband tires and they'll crack - that's not good for performance! (I say that from firsthand experience.)

Big wheels came to be associated with performance because they're needed to fit ever-growing brakes as cars keep getting faster. Which is legit. F1 didn't need big wheels because they use inboard brakes. Normal road cars don't use inboard brakes because the packaging would be terrible.

Now car buyers associate big diameter wheels with performance, thinking the big wheel diameter helps handling. That has been encouraged by automakers like Tesla, because a bigger wheel is a really visually tangible thing that's easy to upsell for $$$$ with only marginal extra cost to produce. Automakers therefore like to pair better performing tires with bigger wheels. The better tires provide the real performance upgrade, while the bigger wheels provide higher profit.

Note large diameter tires - as in the outer diameter - can have real performance benefits. But don't confuse that for wheel diameter.

@comanchepilot Sorry for coming across so overbearing in the post above. I'm really not upset at you even though I sure sounded like it!

Who I'm actually frustrated with in this context are the Tesla product people that insist on mediocre cast wheels with rubberband tire sizes for "performance" models. Aesthetically I like many of Tesla's wheel designs but functionally they're mostly junk. I miss having quality OEM takeoffs available for affordable prices like some other cars enjoy. That is all.

 

[comanchepilot]

@comanchepilot Sorry for coming across so overbearing in the post above. I'm really not upset at you even though I sure sounded like it!

Who I'm actually frustrated with in this context are the Tesla product people that insist on mediocre cast wheels with rubberband tire sizes for "performance" models. Aesthetically I like many of Tesla's wheel designs but functionally they're mostly junk. I miss having quality OEM takeoffs available for affordable prices like some other cars enjoy. That is all.

No worries there - my discussion is based on the SAME tires - not changing out tires to get better performing tires in a smaller wheel. The stoick 19's are the same width and simply taller - if you are going bigger then you will get a benefit from the wider contact patch. But then its apples to oranges.

That said - if you are getting better performing tires [like Cup 2's] then you will be paying more for them - meaning there is less financial advantage to using them. As for potholes= Like I said - pay attention to the road in front of you and avoid them best you can. Yes - bigger wheels and smaller section tires are more sensitive to road conditions. That said my asphalt private road is pitted and pot holed since it will cost our 5 houses in excess of $50k to pave the 1/2 mile - and I've never had any problems with my wheels, tires or alignment because I'm paying attention . . .

 

[dfwatt]

@comanchepilot Sorry for coming across so overbearing in the post above. I'm really not upset at you even though I sure sounded like it!

Who I'm actually frustrated with in this context are the Tesla product people that insist on mediocre cast wheels with rubberband tire sizes for "performance" models. Aesthetically I like many of Tesla's wheel designs but functionally they're mostly junk. I miss having quality OEM takeoffs available for affordable prices like some other cars enjoy. That is all.

Both stock shocks and stock wheels are pretty trashy in my opinion. This was never more clearly exposed around the so-called 'forged' G 'referral' wheels which were accompanied by enormous hype but turned out to be cast and Barrel rolled. And weighing as much as the boat anchors they were replacing. Better looking but still a huge step down from a proper forged wheel that would be between 21 and 23 lb.

The problem is that other oems typically at least have a forged wheel as an option but frankly a lot of their baseline alloy wheels are junk too. Cast, heavy, and brittle. It's the conflict between the bean counters and the hard core car guys. Bean counters win most of the time. Also when you upgrade to a true forged wheel we found those wheels are a whole lot more durable. We've straightened a couple but they stand up to pretty good impacts. In that sense I think the aversion to 20 in Wheels needs to have an asterisk on it. You get what you pay for when you get a true forged wheel.

 

[tarmour]

After 40,000 miles on the original tires, I decided it was time to figure out if I wanted to spend $365 x 4 + tax + installation (~$1,662) for a set of 20" Michelin Pilot Sport 4S tires, or consider moving to a 19" wheel and cheaper tire. Sure, could have gone with a 20" Fallen Azenis FK510 (~$866 installed) if all I wanted to do was spend less on tires. If I went with the Falken tires, I was concerned my range would decrease and road noise increase. A did a lot of research before changing tire sizes, however, there isn't that much definitive information from Model 3 Performance owners who downsized their wheels from 20" to 19".

I decided to get a set of used 19" Tesla Sport Wheels from a former Tesla owner who sold their car with aftermarket wheels, have those wheels powder coated (just to be different) and install a set of 19" Hankook Ventus S1 EVO tires. Used set of wheels cost $550, powder coating $400, tires $1100 installed, TPMS sensors $78 on Amazon, total of $2,128. So I spent about $466 more than if I had just installed another set of PS4S tires.

Pros of the 19" wheels and tires:
1) I have an extra set of wheels in case I get a flat tire that I can't fix with a tire plug.
2) I can just drop off the wheels, have the tire shop swap out the tires, then I can put them on the car when I want without being concerned about the tire shop causing any damage to my car. I've had this happen more than once so, it's more just something I like to have more control over.
3) I spent more on this set of tires, but the next set of tires will cost about $600 less. Also, if I didn't spend money to have the wheels powder coated, it would have only been about $66 more.
4) Potentially more range. Some estimates show as much as a 3% decrease in range going from 19" to 20" wheels, however, so far I've not seen much in the way of a range increase, it seems more like a range neutral. I see very close to the same Wh/mi on my 80 mile (each way) commute to and from work, on flat land in roughly the same weather. It's gotten a bit cooler so I think I'm using a little more energy but that's more from the cooler temps than any change in the wheels and tires.
5) Very slight improvement in ride quality. It's not much, but I'd say the ride is ever so slightly smoother. Not much difference on rough roads though, which I had expected to feel some improvement but it does not seem to any much better.
6) Maybe a bit more protection against getting a bent wheel, however, I've not run into any issues with the 20" wheels.
7) Maybe another 0.1s faster acceleration, maybe.
8) Road noise is maybe 1db better as measure by my sound meter, but that's comparing a set of worn tires to a set of new tires which probably always causes a slight improvement in road noise.

Cons of the 19" wheels and tires:
1) Spent more than I would have if I had just replaced the OEM tires with another set of 20" PS4S tires.
2) Spent much more than if I had gone with the 20" Falken FK510 tires.
3) IMO, the OEM 19" wheels don't look as good as the OEM 20" wheels. Tires are the same diameter but the larger rims are more to my liking.
4) Overall grip, braking and handling probably not as good as with the Michelin tires but still seems to be pretty good.

After it's all said and done, I'm thinking that maybe if I'd have gone with the Falken FK510 tires, I might have been just as happy, although I would probably have lost a bit of range and performance. Also, I would not have an extra set of wheels in case of a catastrophic flat. I do carry a tire plug kit and a compressor in the trunk though.

I'm sure there is plenty more to discuss but I'll end this post with some pictures.

I've been on the hunt for a used M3P with 19" Sport Wheels. I'm looking for a little more tire(ALL Weather) for my area. We get hot summers, and cold winters. The 20's would probably be worthless in the snow. The 19's might give a little more cushion and allow for cheaper all weather tires. Plus I personally like the looks for the 19" wheel. Should be a little lighter than the 20's. Might gain all the weight back with heavier tires though. lol

 

[kilpatds]

I've been on the hunt for a used M3P with 19" Sport Wheels. I'm looking for a little more tire(ALL Weather) for my area. We get hot summers, and cold winters. The 20's would probably be worthless in the snow. The 19's might give a little more cushion and allow for cheaper all weather tires. Plus I personally like the looks for the 19" wheel. Should be a little lighter than the 20's. Might gain all the weight back with heavier tires though. lol

You're generally not going to find a car that comes with them...but you can just buy 19" wheels from Tesla and put them on. 1234224-00-B if you need the part number (Parts Catalog)

The M3P is only available with the 20" wheels now, the "stealth" versions generally came with 18s and didn't have the brakes, and there aren't that many... and when I sell the car, I'm gonna need to sell it with the wheels it came on.

 

[GoergeJetson]

I've been on the hunt for a used M3P with 19" Sport Wheels. I'm looking for a little more tire(ALL Weather) for my area. We get hot summers, and cold winters. The 20's would probably be worthless in the snow. The 19's might give a little more cushion and allow for cheaper all weather tires. Plus I personally like the looks for the 19" wheel. Should be a little lighter than the 20's. Might gain all the weight back with heavier tires though. lol

So, here is an update. I actually got close to 60,000 miles out of the OEM 20" Michelin PS4S, even though I had done lots of highway driving, I was still amazed the tires held up for so long. I guess I attribute the long life to frequent tire rotations, regularly checking air pressure and having a good alignment. I certainly can't contribute any of the high mileage to my driving style which is always punching the accelerator pedal off the line and going around turns at a brisk pace. The 20" PS4S still have some life left in them and are now sitting in my garage to be used as a spare set in case I get a flat tire. The 19" Hankook Ventus S1 EVO are doing well, I have about 8,500 miles on them, have done one tire rotation. I'm pretty sure I'm not going to get even 30k miles out of them, but we shall see.

Looking back at switching down to 19" wheels, the ride quality is only slightly better, but I don't think I'm going to get the savings I'd hoped for since the PS4S did such a great job of lasting almost 2X the mileage warranty. Noise levels are similar, not surprising since both the Michelin and Hankook tires have the layer of foam inside. Efficiency is a bit better on the 19" wheels and Hankook EVO tires, 303 Wh/mi on the Michelin vs 284 Wh/mi so far on the Hankooks or about 7% improvement but I need to factor in other things like weather and my commute to work has also changed. Realistically, the difference in efficiency is probably more like 3%-5% better for the 19" wheels and tires.

Closing thoughts, even though I started out wanting to change to the 19" wheels and tires for the reduced cost of tires and the increased efficiency, I don't think I'm going to achieve much of either, I also like the looks of the 20" wheels a bit more, and having to purchase tires twice as often isn't something I'm interested in. All things considered, if I had it to do over again, I would stick with the Michelin PS4S tires, yes they are expensive, but they offer twice the mileage (at least for me) so I need to buy tires half as often, while the Hankook tires are not 1/2 the price. So the only real advantage is a few percent increased efficiency. I also live in Florida so summer tires work well all year round and there aren't many pot holes to worry about.