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Model 3 Performance - charged to 100% shows 293 miles range. Why?

Discussion in 'Model 3: Battery & Charging' started by LakeForestM3, Dec 30, 2019.

  1. LakeForestM3

    LakeForestM3 Member

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    Hi everyone,

    Probably a n00b question, but I *AM* a Tesla newbie so here goes:

    (I did do a bit of searching but didn't really find this particular question)

    I charged my M3 Performance to 100% at home overnight.
    The car says it's fully charged, and that range now is 293 miles.

    I believe it's advertised at 310 miles.

    Why is there a difference?

    Edit: I should clarify: I don't really care about those 17 miles, I'm just wanting to learn and understand.
     
  2. jjrandorin

    jjrandorin Moderator, Model 3, Tesla Energy Forums

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  3. LakeForestM3

    LakeForestM3 Member

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    Hmmm, my concern is not what happens to the battery over time. My car is less than 5 days old
     
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  4. AlanSubie4Life

    AlanSubie4Life Efficiency Obsessed Member

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    In Tesla terms, that is an eternity!

    Seriously, would be good to see a picture of what your screen looks like to make sure we are talking about the same thing. Not sure which Lake Forest you are in, but even in SoCal it has been chilly and that is a partial factor, though does not explain everything.

    Do peruse the other thread as it provides some info on what to expect on this range number.

    What is the build date of your car? Is it a 2020 or was it an inventory vehicle?
     
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  5. LakeForestM3

    LakeForestM3 Member

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    I spoke with tesla customer service earlier today. They told me that the range shown after a full charge is based on my driving habits. Given the cold-ish weather here in "The OC" and my driving habits, I now better understand why it's not showing 310 miles of range at full charge.
     
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  6. George702

    George702 Member

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    Any chance this happened after you just updated the software to 2019.40.50? Tbh, I think they just gave you the run around.

    Range Decrease since version 2019.40.50
     
  7. AlanSubie4Life

    AlanSubie4Life Efficiency Obsessed Member

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    #7 AlanSubie4Life, Dec 30, 2019
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2019
    This is covered in the other sticky thread about Tesla’s statements on range.

    According to Tesla, the displayed range next to the battery gauge is unequivocally NOT dependent on your driving habits.

    The Tesla folks get confused about this because broadly speaking, estimated range can also be seen on the “Energy -> Consumption” page. That’s totally different.

    The cold weather is likely a factor though - I would guess it accounts for 3-4 miles or so.
     
  8. LakeForestM3

    LakeForestM3 Member

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    In
    no, I haven’t applied that update yet
     
  9. svp6

    svp6 Member

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    That is complete and utter BS - rated range has nothing to do with your driving style (this is what other EVs do, but not Tesla). As far as I can tell, Tesla rated range depends only on the state of charge of your battery, and changes under 3 circumstances:
    1. Decrease - with natural decay in the battery (not your situation as battery is new)
    2. Increase - when you do a full charge / long trip / recharge the battery management rebalances all individual cells. Some of the "losses" are then recovered with this simple maneuver.
    3. Decrease - when Tesla suddenly decides for you that your battery is better of at a lower max state of charge. Lots of model 3 owners (myself included) have recently experienced that sudden drop in range by ~10 miles just after software updates.

    Since you only had the car for 5 days, I assume you did not have it charged at 100% before (hence this is not a drop, but rather an unexpectedly low number), and you could be in scenario #2. Do a good drive to deplete the battery to 20% or lower, then recharge to 100% if you want to know.
     
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  10. AlanSubie4Life

    AlanSubie4Life Efficiency Obsessed Member

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    However, it likely will do very little and is a charge to 100% for no reason. But if the OP chooses to do so, for good measure, the OP should then drive the car or run the heat to bring it down to 90%, then wait overnight for the car to cool overnight, then extrapolate the range. This reduces the effect of temperature shifts on the experiment assuming we were being quoted ranges from a car that had not recently been driven a lot.
     
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  11. LakeForestM3

    LakeForestM3 Member

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    Hi everyone,

    Thanks very much for all your insight. I learned a few things from reading your responses, so that's a good thing :)

    My assumption, when I started this thread, was that the battery gauge on the main screen might be simply showing the battery state of charge or "how much is in the tank".

    The amount of charge in the battery, at a 100% charge, should, in my opinion, show just that: A fully charged battery. Whether I get 310 or 110 miles of range from the fully charged battery, of course depends heavily on my driving style, use of heating / cooling etc. That all makes complete sense to me.

    What still doesn't make sense to me, is why the battery gauge, when showing 100% full, doesn't show 310 miles of "theoretical" range.
     
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  12. AlanSubie4Life

    AlanSubie4Life Efficiency Obsessed Member

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    It is because your BMS system thinks you have 293rmi*245Wh/rmi = 71.8kWh available for use, rather than the 310rmi*245Wh/rmi = 76kWh available on a typical new vehicle.

    Whether or not the BMS system is right or not is TBD. If it is correct, this will have a very noticeable effect on your real-world achievable range (for example, you might only be able to travel 190 miles on the freeway before needing to recharge, rather than 200 miles). This is just an example and the actual range would be dependent on a lot of factors. But the ratio applies regardless.
     
  13. LakeForestM3

    LakeForestM3 Member

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    Jeez, now I can't help but wonder why the battery management system is "confused" about this.... If I understand your post correctly, the BMS simply thinks my battery has less capacity that it should...?
     
  14. Tam

    Tam Well-Known Member

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    You are correct that theoretically, it should show 310 miles on the battery gauge.

    Then whether you can drive an actual 310-mile trip, that's another story. Your driving habit is another story that has nothing to do with the proper number for the battery gauge display.

    But the first story first.

    To measure your battery, it needs 2 reference points: 0% and 100% state of charge. Going down to 0% is not advisable because the low state of charge can permanently damage your battery. The same with "PROLONGED" 100% (It's fine for the purpose of road trips and that's not considered as too long.)

    If no one offers it the 2 needed references for proper calculations, the battery gauge would make an educated guess.

    I think Tesla has made a compromise by instructing owners to charge their cars to 90% daily so it can do a better guess without actually experiencing those 2 damaging referenced points 0% and 100%

    So, to get an accurate reading for your battery gauge, you can provide it with those 2 damaging State of Charge. Doing once might not be enough to train the calculation. You might have to repeat that several times. Don't blame me if you killed your battery in the process.
     
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  15. AlanSubie4Life

    AlanSubie4Life Efficiency Obsessed Member

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    To be clear, it may not be confused. It may be correct. The only way to find out is to do what was suggested earlier - drive it down to 5-20%, then recharge to 100%, and drive again. If it still shows the same result, it increases the likelihood that it is correct. You could try again.

    From what I’ve seen here, most of the time, this procedure does not do much to “de-confuse” the BMS - because it was right all along. But there are exceptions and in your case with a new car it is more likely.
     
  16. Bfitz510

    Bfitz510 Member

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    The strange thing is that this same exact problem is happening to a large amount of people seemingly overnight. I too now have 293 miles of estimated range at 100% charge on my 4 day old P3D.

    It's strange to think that so many peoples M3s (new and old) BMS systems suddenly got confused and dropped their estimated range to the exact same number (293 at 100%). I feel like its either an astronomical coincidence or some software bug introduced with recent software.
     
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  17. AlanSubie4Life

    AlanSubie4Life Efficiency Obsessed Member

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    This will make that upcoming “range increase” look really good! ;)
     
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  18. KenC

    KenC Active Member

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    Is there a reason you charged to 100%? Because it's only recommended if you are going on a trip, and don't leave it at that high SOC for long. Most keep it between 80 and 90%. The Range number is just the odometer, and shouldn't be affected by driving style. However, there does seem to be plenty of evidence that it is affected by seasonal temperature change.
     
  19. rtshefe

    rtshefe Member

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    same situation..brand new p3d range reduced overnight with the update. Im guessing my bms is confused and doesnt know how much capacity I actually have.
    Someone mentioned in another thread that the actual "rated" number on the energy graph has changed and is now slightly higher. maybe they adjusted the rated usage for the p3d in the recent update and now it shows a more realistic estimate?

    Screen Shot 2019-12-30 at 6.46.40 PM.png Screen Shot 2019-12-30 at 6.48.10 PM.png
     
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  20. brkaus

    brkaus Well-Known Member

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    must be something magic about 293. My 3 AWD LR shows the same number.
     

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