Model 3 Performance feels slow?

[Ren.OG]

initial throttle bite is soft?
i was breaking peoples necks!

some of my older friends i had to tell them to put their heads to the headrest.

i had neck pains first 2 weeks of driving this 21 M3P

they probably realized that the initial thrust wasnt better and put more stress on the motors.

 

[MikesM3p]

In 32* I walked a modified 5.0 mustang from a 30-80... (80% charge)

you have to consider how crazy fast this thing is. Yes. It’s slower when it’s really cold, and ICEs are faster when it’s cold. But on the flip side, this thing is faster when it’s hot, and ICEs are slower when it’s hot.

I’m engineering and physics there are always trade offs. Period. Being slower in the cold or low charge is our trade off.

The benefit is it’s an absolute monster 0-100 with zero traction issues and pure acceleration off the line. In the real world, while I’m sure there are times were in the “going to jail” speeds, that is the exception. The norm is being able to stomp anyone in reasonable on road speeds, plus the sheer enjoyment of having a car that has this kind of pull on demand.

Even in the cold at 50% charge it’s still fast by any four door car metric. In idea conditions it’s one of the fastest four doors on the planet.

I’ve only jad my M3P for a few weeks only about 3k miles so far. I get All the mustangs want to race…. One day a Mustang slowed down for two blocks so I could catch up to him. Then he wanted to race for several blocks, all the way up till I turned off the road to go my own way. Imeadiatly after I turned the corner from the Mustang an old Camero did the same thing, and I laughed him off also.

I didn’t laugh off a C8 one night, or a 911 a few days later. I see a few people complaining about their sluggish M3Ps? I don’t have that problem. I haven’t tried track mode yet, but in ‘Sport’ it’s a rocket. The C8 after beating him infront of his girl twice, he slithered away. The 911 was the same story. These cars should’ve spanked me by the specs. These were not at a track, Maybe they thew in the towel after I beat them all across the intersection?

 

[raptor5244]

I’ve only jad my M3P for a few weeks only about 3k miles so far. I get All the mustangs want to race…. One day a Mustang slowed down for two blocks so I could catch up to him. Then he wanted to race for several blocks, all the way up till I turned off the road to go my own way. Imeadiatly after I turned the corner from the Mustang an old Camero did the same thing, and I laughed him off also.

I didn’t laugh off a C8 one night, or a 911 a few days later. I see a few people complaining about their sluggish M3Ps? I don’t have that problem. I haven’t tried track mode yet, but in ‘Sport’ it’s a rocket. The C8 after beating him infront of his girl twice, he slithered away. The 911 was the same story. These cars should’ve spanked me by the specs. These were not at a track, Maybe they thew in the towel after I beat them all across the intersection?

It all depends what performance metric you are after. On the streets from a stoplight with the simplicity of AWD EV instant torque launch is a recipe for success. Tesla and basically all future performance EVs will be the stoplight kings. I mean Dodge is working on eMusclecars so you know they will be going nuts with their high performance trims.

However, once you pass about 60-70mph or start taking taking some corners that C8 will greatly outperform the M3P. There is a full second difference to 100mph between the cars, which is significant. Even with a poor launch the C8 will chase down the M3P if you go past the intersection. If you do a pull at highway speeds the M3P falls flat. I love my Tesla but for roughly the same money the performance of C8 Corvette is hard to beat and to think this is the base model. They have the Z06 and the E-Ray on the way. Imagine adding the instant torque from electric motors to the front wheels of a C8 in addition to the V8 in the back. It will be absolutely ridiculous and in a platform that can handle the performance and a price that is actually attainable for many. Interesting times in the auto industry.

 

[Ren.OG]

@raptor5244 thats a $23k difference if you're comparing the M3P to a Z06.
Better off comparing a base model S LR, granted the S LR is about 6k more (now, used to be 89k) but thats a much smaller than 23k.
SLR is 3.1 0-60 prob with rollout.

 

[raptor5244]

@raptor5244 thats a $23k difference if you're comparing the M3P to a Z06.
Better off comparing a base model S LR, granted the S LR is about 6k more (now, used to be 89k) but thats a much smaller than 23k.
SLR is 3.1 0-60 prob with rollout.

I am comparing to a base Stingray with or without the Z51 package. The Stingray is $62,500 MSRP about $68k once you add the Z51 track package.

The Z06 will be a different beast altogether, really a track weapon. 670hp naturally aspirated revving to 8600rpm via a flat plane crank 5.5 liter. 0-60mph in 2.6sec, supercar killer for less than $100k. Although you probably won't be able to buy one for less than $100k for some time.

When comparing these cars we need to focus on more than just 0-60mph and 1/4 mile times. handling, styling, track times, weight reduction, braking, skid pad numbers, tech features, aftermarket support, community support, the way a car makes you feel, the noises it makes or doesn't make, etc.

 

[Coreankat]

Interesting and yes, I think he did just supercharge it before I test drove it. I will need to do the same on mine and see if it feels faster. How do you tell what temperature your batteries are at and if they are fully warmed? I have not seen that figure before on my Model S or 3?

Did you ever figure those out? I also have a m3p stealth and it does NOT feel as fast as other performance model 3’s even this the numbers it’s putting up are right. The FEEL is off, doesn’t have that VIOLENT feel.

 

[Coreankat]

Interesting and yes, I think he did just supercharge it before I test drove it. I will need to do the same on mine and see if it feels faster. How do you tell what temperature your batteries are at and if they are fully warmed? I have not seen that figure before on my Model S or 3?

Did you ever figure the problem out? Same exact issue here. 2018 model 3 performance, doesn’t feel anywhere near as violent as my friends 2020.

 

[jackmott]

Did you ever figure the problem out? Same exact issue here. 2018 model 3 performance, doesn’t feel anywhere near as violent as my friends 2020.

There can be a lot of variance in how big the initial bite is, depending on state of charge, how warm the battery is, etc. Charge up to 90+%, drive a bit, do a hard pull to warm the battery, then do a launch and see how it feels.

However I can tell you that it is very normal for any given car to feel slow when YOU are driving, and you have gotten used to it, but to feel *insane* as a passenger.

 

[Apprunner]

There can be a lot of variance in how big the initial bite is, depending on state of charge, how warm the battery is, etc. Charge up to 90+%, drive a bit, do a hard pull to warm the battery, then do a launch and see how it feels.

However I can tell you that it is very normal for any given car to feel slow when YOU are driving, and you have gotten used to it, but to feel *insane* as a passenger.

Butt dynos are notoriously inaccurate Almost every comparison with the different Model 3 Performance years peg them all nearly the same. I remember the first time I floored my car...i felt it was insane. Now, I wish my car was faster

 

[EVolv3d]

There can be a lot of variance in how big the initial bite is, depending on state of charge, how warm the battery is, etc. Charge up to 90+%, drive a bit, do a hard pull to warm the battery, then do a launch and see how it feels.

However I can tell you that it is very normal for any given car to feel slow when YOU are driving, and you have gotten used to it, but to feel *insane* as a passenger.

This is 100% accurate. Your butt dyno quickly grows accustomed to the acceleration and g-force.

I've done quite a bit of testing using my dragy at various battery temps and SoC. As long as you have sufficient charge, >60-70%, battery temp plays the largest role in the initial burst of acceleration from a stop. I've noticed quite a "delay" in initial acceleration depending on the battery temp. The 0-10mph increment is impacted the most, by 0.1 to 0.2 seconds from my testing on a "cold" vs "warm" battery. With that said, I've only tested battery temps in the range of 25°C vs 43°C so far. By the time that the stator & inverter temps drop a bit, the battery temp has also dropped. If you live in a colder climate where the battery temp drops to ~15°C and you're at a lower state of charge, this performance delta would likely grow even further.

FWIW, my best 0-60 mph thus far is 3.29 (3.07 w/ 1-ft rollout) with a 1.83 60-ft at 86% SoC, battery temp 43°C, ambient temp 55°F (13°C). I've had numerous passes in the 3.4-3.5x range depending on SoC and battery temp (SoC always above 65%). I hope to improve my times a bit when the weather warms up (higher battery & tire temps) and I find a nice flat road with good traction as a 3.20 (3.00 w/ 1-ft rollout) should be achievable in the perfect conditions based on the testing of others and comparing the 10mph deltas across all of my runs.

 

[GtiMart]

Oh yes, battery temperature is definitely a huge factor. When my battery is at -16C (3F) for example, like on a cold Quebec winter morning, parked outside without preheating, ScanMyTesla reports a max power output of around 85kW. Assuming sending all of that to the motors (which isn't quite true) and converting to hp (not accounting for losses) would give 114hp. I can tell you the car is sluggish as hell in that situation, and I have an LR AWD + acceleration boost. Surprisingly the car jumps from complete stop but is otherwise very sluggish. I haven't had an ICE car this slow since my student years with my Pontiac Acadian and later Renault Alliance Needless to say you have absolutely no regen at those temps either.

 

[EXOTIC1]

It all depends what performance metric you are after. On the streets from a stoplight with the simplicity of AWD EV instant torque launch is a recipe for success. Tesla and basically all future performance EVs will be the stoplight kings. I mean Dodge is working on eMusclecars so you know they will be going nuts with their high performance trims.

However, once you pass about 60-70mph or start taking taking some corners that C8 will greatly outperform the M3P. There is a full second difference to 100mph between the cars, which is significant. Even with a poor launch the C8 will chase down the M3P if you go past the intersection. If you do a pull at highway speeds the M3P falls flat. I love my Tesla but for roughly the same money the performance of C8 Corvette is hard to beat and to think this is the base model. They have the Z06 and the E-Ray on the way. Imagine adding the instant torque from electric motors to the front wheels of a C8 in addition to the V8 in the back. It will be absolutely ridiculous and in a platform that can handle the performance and a price that is actually attainable for many. Interesting times in the auto industry.

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C8 is the best bang for buck sport car bar none.
Was never a vette fan with all the previous generations but the C8 is an amazing ride. I would take it over my previous Gallardo any day of the week. C8 is well built / comfortable overall and runs sub 3 sec 0-60.
They are selling 25K over sticker used.
Z06 will be a game changer for sure.
On another note my panny turbo was spanked from light to about 1/4 mile by P3. They are no joke off the line and really solid on the track as well.

 

[gearchruncher]

C8 is the best bang for buck sport car bar none.

Like you said, it would be if you could get one.
At $100K+, the only price you can get your hands on one for, it's less clear. Same will be true of the Z06, probably worse. I put a deposit down on a Z06 within an hour of the order book opening and I'm 2,500 on the list and won't get a car for years.

Kinda pointless to talk about MSRP when it doesn't exist. Kinda like those tables that talk about how the Tesla Roadster is better than everything else out there, or the hilarious article a few months ago saying the Cybertruck is the cheapest Tesla now that the 3/Y prices have crept up, as if the CT will sell for what they said years ago.

 

[EXOTIC1]

Like you said, it would be if you could get one.
At $100K+, the only price you can get your hands on one for, it's less clear. Same will be true of the Z06, probably worse. I put a deposit down on a Z06 within an hour of the order book opening and I'm 2,500 on the list and won't get a car for years.

Kinda pointless to talk about MSRP when it doesn't exist. Kinda like those tables that talk about how the Tesla Roadster is better than everything else out there, or the hilarious article a few months ago saying the Cybertruck is the cheapest Tesla now that the 3/Y prices have crept up, as if the CT will sell for what they said years ago.

Got my C8 at msrp 78k with 3LT interior 2 years ago ……..
I’m #1 on local Z06 at msrp. I’m very fortunate as the dealership owner is a long time family friend. The Z06 will be selling 70-100k over sticker for first year cars.

 

[ay221]

It would be cheaper to buy a plaid, if straight speed it all you want. Looks are another thing. A Tesla 3P is good enough for me.

 

[gearchruncher]

I’m #1 on local Z06 at msrp. I’m very fortunate as the dealership owner is a long time family friend. The Z06 will be selling 70-100k over sticker for first year cars.

Cool.
Unless you can get me one, it's irrelevant. By literal definition, not everyone can have a family friend to sell them a Z06 at MSRP, and as you say, they are technically going to be $150K+ cars, which is probably exactly what you are going to do with yours when you get it instead of racing it against your Tesla.

Plus, you have no idea when your local dealer will actually get their first allocation.

Meanwhile, anyone can plunk down Tesla's MSRP and get one in a few months, which means Tesla's MSRP matters and the C8's doesn't, because someone can't cross shop a C8 and a M3P, pick the C8, and then buy it anytime in the next two years for MSRP.

 

[raptor5244]

Got my C8 at msrp 78k with 3LT interior 2 years ago ……..
I’m #1 on local Z06 at msrp. I’m very fortunate as the dealership owner is a long time family friend. The Z06 will be selling 70-100k over sticker for first year cars.

Dealers in my area will sell at MSRP but you have to wait 9-12 months for ordered C8s.

 

[raptor5244]

It would be cheaper to buy a plaid, if straight speed it all you want. Looks are another thing. A Tesla 3P is good enough for me.

I had my Model 3 Performance after 2 years or so. I liked it but I started to miss the engagement and drama you get from performance based ICE vehicles. I am back in a Camaro ZL1, which destroys my Model 3 Performance in all areas except for 0-60mph. The hard AWD launch of the Tesla gets the edge, the ZL1 gets to 60 in about 3.6 seconds. But for about the same money as the Tesla I can trap at 125mph, Recaro seats, HUD, mag ride suspension, drive modes, E-diff, V8 dual exhaust note, sporty interior ability to disable the nannies and have some fun.

I drove a C8 on track but it did not feel as visceral as the ZL1. I am hearing good things about the new Nissan Z, and it comes with a manual. Even Toyota is adding a manual option to the Supra now. While EVs are great for daily drivers I am hoping they keep producing exciting cars for driving enthusiasts.

 

[gearchruncher]

While EVs are great for daily drivers I am hoping they keep producing exciting cars for driving enthusiasts.

Meanwhile all the guys at my local Autocross are complaining that they want an EV class because Teslas always win.

 

[raptor5244]

Meanwhile all the guys at my local Autocross are complaining that they want an EV class because Teslas always win.

Yeah, I would think all that instant torque would bode well on an Autocross course. The guys at the road courses complain that the Teslas overheat and can't finish a 20 minute session before needing a charge. They have a big diesel generator with all of them plugged in. Then you have the fact that the cars keep losing performance as the battery SOC drops. Pros and cons for sure.