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Model 3 Performance Real World Range

Zcd1

Member
Sep 2, 2018
715
812
Walloon Lake, MI / LaQuinta, CA
This is about 225 miles both ways, so the car has to be charged at some point.

If you keep your speed below about 65 mph, you can probably do this round trip with one charge, IF the Supercharger is at or close to your destination. (Doing the trip this way would almost certainly take longer than if you charged it twice...even if that seems counterintuitive)

Otherwise (meaning almost definitely) you'll be charging at least twice on this trip, so plan your time accordingly.

As others have suggested, use www.abetterrouteplanner to see what the trip will look like, and be sure to adjust the "Detailed settings" to reflect the reality of the temperature and weather conditions and the speed you plan to drive

Signed: experienced EV road-tripper.
 
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AlanSubie4Life

Efficiency Obsessed Member
Oct 22, 2018
9,641
11,538
San Diego
the EPA isn't forcing Tesla to rely on their numbers.

Tesla has only a little latitude. They can use the 0.7 scalar, and perhaps they could sandbag their rolling resistance numbers to hurt the range of the test. That appears to be what some other EV manufacturers do (notably Porsche - not sure how else they get such good alignment of real world to EPA results, though have not studied it closely).

They can also do voluntary range reduction, but I do not know exactly what circumstances allow that, plus it’s also kind of silly, because it just further obfuscates the issue.

All of these options are poor. Each one makes true efficiency a more and more abstract concept.

I think any rational person knows that the EPA tests for gas cars are laughable so why would they expect them better for an electric car?

I guess because it seems like it wouldn’t be that difficult to make a uniform dyno test which gives the realized efficiency in a given highway test without any scalars, and also provides a usable capacity number, and then there really wouldn’t be much confusion. Since highway range is what people are nearly always complaining about.

The scalar issue alone makes this quite a different ballgame than the standard fuel economy tests, because it allows EV manufacturers to scale their results by quite a lot (only a couple choose to do so). I don’t believe this degree of freedom exists for gasoline FE tests though I haven’t studied them closely.

There’s an argument for the scalar of course - it rewards better efficiency in cold and hot weather (and a fifth test US06 - which would reward aero slightly). That’s important to some people and manufacturers should have such an incentive. But it artificially boosts range in ideal conditions.

As others have suggested, use www.abetterrouteplanner to see what the trip will look like, and be sure to adjust the "Detailed settings" to reflect the reality of the temperature and weather conditions and the speed you plan to drive

Yes. And once you’ve done a route a couple times using ABRP (or carefully estimating yourself) you’ll just be able to use the in-car Nav, and you’ll know how to ignore its suggested stopping points, which are sometimes silly especially on Supercharger-dense routes.
 
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toddkageals

Member
Dec 8, 2020
126
77
Vinton
If you keep your speed below about 65 mph, you can probably do this round trip with one charge, IF the Supercharger is at or close to your destination. (Doing the trip this way would almost certainly take longer than if you charged it twice...even if that seems counterintuitive)

Otherwise (meaning almost definitely) you'll be charging at least twice on this trip, so plan your time accordingly.

As others have suggested, use www.abetterrouteplanner to see what the trip will look like, and be sure to adjust the "Detailed settings" to reflect the reality of the temperature and weather conditions and the speed you plan to drive

Signed: experienced EV road-tripper.
You hit the nail on the head. I charged up to 100% about 20 miles from my destination, had about 35% on the battery when I got there. Drove the 20 miles, had about 97% charge. Spent a few hours there, then head back. One the way back, it used WAY MORE POWER. The GPS routed us up 77 to 81. I guess you are going up a mountain and at higher speeds than when we drove down. Got back to the house with 14%. For a new EV owner, that's too close for comfort. 14% was with me going 5-10 miles UNDER the speed limit! I would have stopped for a quick charge to ensure I made it but, at least according the map in the car, there's nothing on that route between Charlotte,NC and Salem, VA. Salem is almost home, so.....

I guess I need to find some better app to find chargers. Someone mentioned more charging stations, but they were NOT on the route that the Tesla GPS took us!

You are right about the real world range though. Normal driving, at the speed limit, only two people in the car, 45 degrees, headlights and infotainment, real world range is more like 250 max! If we avoid the 100% charge, and 10% bottom, well......200 seems more reasonable. Wow....thought this car was going to go 280 easy!
 

toddkageals

Member
Dec 8, 2020
126
77
Vinton
I like trying to figure out challenging routes and help people solve problems, but...

...this is some really wild over-the-top exaggeration.

If I let Google Maps just plot shortest route between Roanoake, VA and Charlotte, NC, it says via I-81 and I-77 for a total distance of 198 miles. You're making it sound like there is nothing along your route, and only "ONE" (in all caps) alternative that is way out of your way. I'm not sure which you would consider your "main" route and which you are thinking of as "alternate", but there are two very clear routes that are about the same distance, and both have easy Supercharger coverage.

Option 1:
The one Google picked has the Mt. Airy Supercharger along the way. That's a little detour off the highway to use it--211 miles.

Option 2: If you go south to Greensboro first, there are choices of a couple of Superchargers, either in Greensboro or in Lexington. If I just pick the one in Lexington, along the way, the total route is only 190 miles--an even shorter distance than Google picked.

And the distances of these segments in between charges aren't even more than about 130 miles at the most, so there really isn't any range anxiety about this. I get that anything that is different or unknown always has some nervousness about trying something new, but this isn't a range difficulty at all.

I must not be doing some right in trying to locate the chargers. My route on the way back was 77 to 81. The only SCs I saw on the map on that route were in Charlotte. After that, it was all the way to Salem, VA, but that's almost home. It ended up being about 220 miles, got back with 14% charge (started at 97% in Charlotte at the convention center). That was with them slowing to 5 below the speed limit because I was scared me and my kid were going to be stranded at midnight on the side of the interstate. I'm sure we will adapt, but last night was STRESSFULL (yes....that's in all caps :). Maybe looking at the map, Mt. Airy looked farther away, not sure. Looked to me like there was nothing on the 77-81 route after Charlotte. How about Tesla and Sheets get together and put a SC at every Sheets! I would have been fine that way!
 

Rocky_H

Well-Known Member
Feb 19, 2015
6,247
7,289
Boise, ID
I must not be doing some right in trying to locate the chargers. My route on the way back was 77 to 81. The only SCs I saw on the map on that route were in Charlotte. After that, it was all the way to Salem, VA, but that's almost home.
*Sigh* This is probably the thing that just infuriates me about what Tesla did with their "Beta Trip Planner" in the car. This, right here, is a case in point of why it is so terrible. This should have been an easy drive with no stress for a new owner, but because the navigation HIDES Superchargers it doesn't think you need to use, that made it a panic and stressful situation. (Huh. I was going to give a link to a discussion about this, but since they just revamped the forum, my search can't find it.) Damn it, Tesla! Stop screwing over new owners by making things harder for them!

I'm sure we will adapt, but last night was STRESSFULL (yes....that's in all caps :). Maybe looking at the map, Mt. Airy looked farther away, not sure. Looked to me like there was nothing on the 77-81 route after Charlotte. How about Tesla and Sheets get together and put a SC at every Sheets! I would have been fine that way!
They are there--it's just seeing them on the map that is the problem because of Tesla's stupid interface. I'll explain the problem. When you plot in your route first, the Nav shows you the Supercharger stops it thinks you should use and hides the ones in between. Since it thought this route was barely passable without any, it hid them, which is stupid.

So, solution:
Don't plot your route first.
Just zoom out on your map first, and see where the Superchargers are along the way. (If they are not all showing, touch the display, and there is a lightning bolt button to make them show up.) And then just click one, like Mt. Airy or Lexington or Greensboro, and navigate directly to that first. Then, when you're there and charging, pick your Salem, VA destination and navigate there. The Beta Trip Planner can be kind of stupid that way, so jumping from Supercharger to Supercharger eliminates its bad decision making.

I'll sometimes go ahead and try letting it plot the whole thing at first, just to get some idea, but I'll make sure it's not doing something stupid like that. If it shows a really low arrival %, or if it shows a charging time over about 45-50 minutes, it's probably doing this stupid skipping Superchargers thing, so I'll cancel and pick my own stops.
 
Nov 21, 2020
88
71
22015
Real world? I changed my remaining charge from miles to battery percentage they day I got the car and haven’t looked back. I charge to 80% every night (usually). Drive to and from work, which is a round trip of 10 miles. Battery doesn’t go below 70% even when it’s like 15 degrees outside. Also, I test the 0-60 as often as possible. Also the 40-70 gets tested sometimes too cause it’s fun.

Sorry, I can’t be of much educational help. I got the M3P cause it’s fun as *sugar* to drive.
 

toddkageals

Member
Dec 8, 2020
126
77
Vinton
*Sigh* This is probably the thing that just infuriates me about what Tesla did with their "Beta Trip Planner" in the car. This, right here, is a case in point of why it is so terrible. This should have been an easy drive with no stress for a new owner, but because the navigation HIDES Superchargers it doesn't think you need to use, that made it a panic and stressful situation. (Huh. I was going to give a link to a discussion about this, but since they just revamped the forum, my search can't find it.) Damn it, Tesla! Stop screwing over new owners by making things harder for them!


They are there--it's just seeing them on the map that is the problem because of Tesla's stupid interface. I'll explain the problem. When you plot in your route first, the Nav shows you the Supercharger stops it thinks you should use and hides the ones in between. Since it thought this route was barely passable without any, it hid them, which is stupid.

So, solution:
Don't plot your route first.
Just zoom out on your map first, and see where the Superchargers are along the way. (If they are not all showing, touch the display, and there is a lightning bolt button to make them show up.) And then just click one, like Mt. Airy or Lexington or Greensboro, and navigate directly to that first. Then, when you're there and charging, pick your Salem, VA destination and navigate there. The Beta Trip Planner can be kind of stupid that way, so jumping from Supercharger to Supercharger eliminates its bad decision making.

I'll sometimes go ahead and try letting it plot the whole thing at first, just to get some idea, but I'll make sure it's not doing something stupid like that. If it shows a really low arrival %, or if it shows a charging time over about 45-50 minutes, it's probably doing this stupid skipping Superchargers thing, so I'll cancel and pick my own stops.

Ahhhhhh.....now THAT is some good information. I could not figure out why those SCs were not on the map, but then showed up when I checked after I saw your first post. I had the route in the first time I checked, I did not have it in the second time. It would have been sooooooo much better if I had known they were there. I was seriously regretting plunking down 60+ on a car that I could not even drive at the speed limit. If I had know those chargers were there, I could have stopped for 20 minutes and not even have given it another thought! I mean yeah.....I did make it on a single charge, but WOW it created some stress. Middle of the night, tired kid in the car sleeping, cold outside, not sure I would make it back in my brand new Tesla....not good! I feel better about it now. I'll be sure to do what you said to find chargers on my next road trip. Thanks!
 
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jjrandorin

Moderator, Model 3, Tesla Energy Forums
Nov 28, 2018
8,741
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Riverside Co. CA
Ahhhhhh.....now THAT is some good information. I could not figure out why those SCs were not on the map, but then showed up when I checked after I saw your first post. I had the route in the first time I checked, I did not have it in the second time. It would have been sooooooo much better if I had known they were there. I was seriously regretting plunking down 60+ on a car that I could not even drive at the speed limit. If I had know those chargers were there, I could have stopped for 20 minutes and not even have given it another thought! I mean yeah.....I did make it on a single charge, but WOW it created some stress. Middle of the night, tired kid in the car sleeping, cold outside, not sure I would make it back in my brand new Tesla....not good! I feel better about it now. I'll be sure to do what you said to find chargers on my next road trip. Thanks!

The suggestion that was given to you to check abetterrouteplanner.com and plot out your trip there earlier in this thread would have also prevented you that stress. What many people do is plot out the trip there, and then navigate from stop to stop that abetterrouteplanner planned out.
 

Rocky_H

Well-Known Member
Feb 19, 2015
6,247
7,289
Boise, ID
The suggestion that was given to you to check abetterrouteplanner.com and plot out your trip there earlier in this thread would have also prevented you that stress. What many people do is plot out the trip there, and then navigate from stop to stop that abetterrouteplanner planned out.
While that is a fine suggestion, and ABetterRoutePlanner or EVTripPlanner are great tools, I don't want to let Tesla off the hook on this. Extraneous tools people might not know about should definitely not be necessary. The Supercharger coverage is good, and the locations are stored in the car. It's Tesla's user-antagonistic behavior which is hiding them from people and creating this problem. If they would just stop doing that, this problem wouldn't have even come up.
 
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jjrandorin

Moderator, Model 3, Tesla Energy Forums
Nov 28, 2018
8,741
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Riverside Co. CA
While that is a fine suggestion, and ABetterRoutePlanner or EVTripPlanner are great tools, I don't want to let Tesla off the hook on this. Extraneous tools people might not know about should definitely not be necessary. The Supercharger coverage is good, and the locations are stored in the car. It's Tesla's user-antagonistic behavior which is hiding them from people and creating this problem. If they would just stop doing that, this problem wouldn't have even come up.

I agree with you. I am not trying to say that tesla should be let off the hook on this one at all. What I was saying is, for people who manage to find their way somewhere and ask the question and receive that suggestion (like @toddkageals did), it might have saved them some stress if they had taken a look at it.

Tesla shouldnt hide superchargers on the map, ever, no idea why they think thats a good idea, but for a first trip in a brand new EV, when the person is asking "what should I do to check", that is one thing they could have checked which would have lessened the stress.

Tesla needs to stop hiding superchargers though, both because its stupid they do that, and because the vast majority of people are not going to "find their way to an enthusiast website and ask the question, and get the suggestion" like @toddkageals did.
 
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toddkageals

Member
Dec 8, 2020
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I agree with you. I am not trying to say that tesla should be let off the hook on this one at all. What I was saying is, for people who manage to find their way somewhere and ask the question and receive that suggestion (like @toddkageals did), it might have saved them some stress if they had taken a look at it.

Tesla shouldnt hide superchargers on the map, ever, no idea why they think thats a good idea, but for a first trip in a brand new EV, when the person is asking "what should I do to check", that is one thing they could have checked which would have lessened the stress.

Tesla needs to stop hiding superchargers though, both because its stupid they do that, and because the vast majority of people are not going to "find their way to an enthusiast website and ask the question, and get the suggestion" like @toddkageals did.
Yes...I downloaded that app and have already plotted my next road trip to TN. Why can't Tesla build something like that into the car? I assume you have to run that app on your phone? No way to get it to run on the car screen?
 

Rocky_H

Well-Known Member
Feb 19, 2015
6,247
7,289
Boise, ID
Why can't Tesla build something like that into the car?
They can, they should, and the fact that they haven't has a lot of us Tesla owners baffled, bewildered, and disappointed.
And the thing is, all it would take is a pretty small configuration setting. When the car tries to pick a route, it is prioritizing fewest number of stops above all else. So what would be helpful is if you could set a preferred minimum charge for the routing, and then it wouldn't be doing that nonsense of trying to skip Superchargers and running you down to scary levels.
 

Zcd1

Member
Sep 2, 2018
715
812
Walloon Lake, MI / LaQuinta, CA
And the thing is, all it would take is a pretty small configuration setting. When the car tries to pick a route, it is prioritizing fewest number of stops above all else. So what would be helpful is if you could set a preferred minimum charge for the routing, and then it wouldn't be doing that nonsense of trying to skip Superchargers and running you down to scary levels.
Could be even simpler than that.

Just offer the option to route for the shortest possible trip duration. (You know, like ABRP does!)
 

Zcd1

Member
Sep 2, 2018
715
812
Walloon Lake, MI / LaQuinta, CA
You hit the nail on the head. I charged up to 100% about 20 miles from my destination, had about 35% on the battery when I got there. Drove the 20 miles, had about 97% charge. Spent a few hours there, then head back. One the way back, it used WAY MORE POWER. The GPS routed us up 77 to 81. I guess you are going up a mountain and at higher speeds than when we drove down. Got back to the house with 14%. For a new EV owner, that's too close for comfort. 14% was with me going 5-10 miles UNDER the speed limit! I would have stopped for a quick charge to ensure I made it but, at least according the map in the car, there's nothing on that route between Charlotte,NC and Salem, VA. Salem is almost home, so.....

I guess I need to find some better app to find chargers. Someone mentioned more charging stations, but they were NOT on the route that the Tesla GPS took us!

You are right about the real world range though. Normal driving, at the speed limit, only two people in the car, 45 degrees, headlights and infotainment, real world range is more like 250 max!

Best to look at all of your early road trips as EV learning opportunities.

ABRP will show you the fallacy it generally is to fast-charge past about 80 percent. It’s correct on that, while the car is wrong
 

toddkageals

Member
Dec 8, 2020
126
77
Vinton
ABRP is super cool. I also did not realize that charging to less than "full" more frequently would take less time than a single charge to a high %. I stopped once, charged to 99%, but it took about 1.5 hours (I did not track the time closely, but the estimate on the screen was 1 hour, 40 minutes). According to ABRP, I could have charged twice, for a total of like 30 minute and made it back home with more charge. Tesla should be buying up ABRP and putting it in their cars! Of course, I am making an assumption that the calculations in ABRP will be reasonably accurate since I have not actually tried road tripping with it yet. Makes perfect sense that you could charge more frequently for a shorter period of time at lower SOC, but I did not understand that when I went on the trip last weekend.
 
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jjrandorin

Moderator, Model 3, Tesla Energy Forums
Nov 28, 2018
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Riverside Co. CA
ABRP is super cool. I also did not realize that charging to less than "full" more frequently would take less time than a single charge to a high %. I stopped once, charged to 99%, but it took about 1.5 hours (I did not track the time closely, but the estimate on the screen was 1 hour, 40 minutes). According to ABRP, I could have charged twice, for a total of like 30 minute and made it back home with more charge. Tesla should be buying up ABRP and putting it in their cars! Of course, I am making an assumption that the calculations in ABRP will be reasonably accurate since I have not actually tried road tripping with it yet. Makes perfect sense that you could charge more frequently for a shorter period of time at lower SOC, but I did not understand that when I went on the trip last weekend.

Thats one of the big "aha!" moments in EV road tripping, actually. Because, with a gas powered vehicle, everyone is used to "fill up, drive as far as I can until my bladder cant hold it any longer, stop at a gas station and fill up, and use the restroom, then drive off again" and repeat.

People will always say something like "but I can fill up my gas car in 5 minutes, and it takes 2 hours in an EV!", ignoring the fact that you have to actually get to the gas station, etc. Since EVs can only really hit their max charge speed at lower states of charge, in an EV, the process is more like "start with 100% charge, drive down to 15-25% charge, supercharge to high enough to hit the next supercharger, and head out.

Its a mind shift, but most people really want (or should) stop every 2-2.5 hours anyway while road tripping, and 15-20 ish minutes charging there will be enough to stretch their legs and head out for another 2 hours or so driving.

As @Rocky_H normally says, new EV owners usually ask "Can I make this without charging?" or "Can I make this with only one charge?", when that kind of doesnt matter at all. What matters is how many superchargers are along the route one wants to drive, so one can easily road trip from 15-20% charge to 60-70% charge, to maximize charging speed and minimize time spent at a charger.
 

Apprunner

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Jul 2, 2019
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571
So-cal
Thats one of the big "aha!" moments in EV road tripping, actually. Because, with a gas powered vehicle, everyone is used to "fill up, drive as far as I can until my bladder cant hold it any longer, stop at a gas station and fill up, and use the restroom, then drive off again" and repeat.

People will always say something like "but I can fill up my gas car in 5 minutes, and it takes 2 hours in an EV!", ignoring the fact that you have to actually get to the gas station, etc. Since EVs can only really hit their max charge speed at lower states of charge, in an EV, the process is more like "start with 100% charge, drive down to 15-25% charge, supercharge to high enough to hit the next supercharger, and head out.

Its a mind shift, but most people really want (or should) stop every 2-2.5 hours anyway while road tripping, and 15-20 ish minutes charging there will be enough to stretch their legs and head out for another 2 hours or so driving.

As @Rocky_H normally says, new EV owners usually ask "Can I make this without charging?" or "Can I make this with only one charge?", when that kind of doesnt matter at all. What matters is how many superchargers are along the route one wants to drive, so one can easily road trip from 15-20% charge to 60-70% charge, to maximize charging speed and minimize time spent at a charger.

Its even a more nuanced than that. You should leave the charger when the kilowatts taper on the charging curve. I find that once you near 70%, its better to leave and go to the next charger due to the charging curve. You'll maintain a pretty high rate until you are in the high 60% range. Conversely, I've been to chargers where they were all slow so you find out the next charger and what its max output is and if that has a higher output, get enough charge to go to there. Doesn't make sense to arbitrarily stop a charge to get to the next charger if charging output is still high.
 
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Zcd1

Member
Sep 2, 2018
715
812
Walloon Lake, MI / LaQuinta, CA
I stopped once, charged to 99%, but it took about 1.5 hours (I did not track the time closely, but the estimate on the screen was 1 hour, 40 minutes). According to ABRP, I could have charged twice, for a total of like 30 minute and made it back home with more charge.

Yep, that's what I was trying to let you know. Again, for best results, be sure to set ABRP's "Detailed Settings" to match your car's configuration and the weather conditions. When those are set appropriately ABRP has proven remarkably accurate in my experience.

Also, it's not worth "freaking out" about % SOC remaining until you're below 5% and more than 50 miles away from any charging options... ;)
 

toddkageals

Member
Dec 8, 2020
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Yep, that's what I was trying to let you know. Again, for best results, be sure to set ABRP's "Detailed Settings" to match your car's configuration and the weather conditions. When those are set appropriately ABRP has proven remarkably accurate in my experience.

Also, it's not worth "freaking out" about % SOC remaining until you're below 5% and more than 50 miles away from any charging options... ;)
5% = 50 miles would be 10 miles per %? Wouldn't that give 1000 miles on a full charge?
 
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