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Range Loss Over Time, What Can Be Expected, Efficiency, How to Maintain Battery Health
- Thread starter KK_RedM3
- Start date
Candleflame
Active Member
an unbalance battery will drift towards degradation not preservation. and tbh most tesla batteries are very balanced anyway, you can even check that with TMC.
I also do charge ot full and run to near empty as I live in Australia and cover vast distances. i have 10% degradation - and most otheres do too.
Third party apps do not drain the battery. if you think that they keep the car awake... most dont do that anymore, and if they do the consumption is irrelevant for degradation.
Candleflame
Active Member
possibly. some newer cars tend to start out with 1% degradation or so. probably just means the car sat for 2-3 months in a lot.
You really only see 0% degradation if you take delivery within 1-2 months of manufacture.
It is brand new manufactured in April 2021. Does the new car require calibration?
Two months commuting daily 96 mi each way in a “new to me” 2018 M3 LR ePA 325 mi. I drive 68mph all highway in the middle of Mississippi. Each way takes almost exactly 40% SOC; maybe 38-39%. I charge to 90% and get home with 10-13% on a typical commute. When charged to 100% SOC, three range in miles says 292mi. But my driving habits really only yield 240 miles.
AlanSubie4Life
Efficiency Obsessed Member
Awesome. You're getting about 270Wh/mi, which seems perhaps slightly high for that speed (depends on your tires too) but that's the high side estimate assuming no loss when parked (not valid).
(292rmi*(0.9-0.13)*245Wh/rmi*0.955*0.99)/ (2*96mi) = 271Wh/mi
0.955 => account for buffer
0.99 => account for uncounted energy
245Wh/rmi => 2018 Model 3 charge constant
Very typical result.
Candleflame
Active Member
you dont really have real range loss. 1% or 2% cant be recalibrated.
Calibration is only needed for cars which never go to sleep and the car cannot get a voltage reading. In my experience the car takes a "hot" voltage reading when put into park after a long drive and a "cold" voltage reading after 3h of sleeping. My car very occasionally seems to take a voltage reading after just 20min - 60min of sleeping ( as evident by i.e. 2% range gain or so when it wakes up).
There is maybe one other instance where cars have been left sitting for ages between 40-70%. I find that evidence annecdotal though and apparently this has been fixed with a software update.
There are countless videos of Bjorn and other tesla wannabewarriors doing deep discharges followed by full recharges to "recalibrate" the pack. This has never ever made any difference.
SleeperService
Member
I still don't quite understand what "Speed overreporting factor" means in ABRP, I also can't seem to get the "Degradation" number to show up. I've checked my speed vs. my GPS watch, and at 80 mph (car read out) it's within ~1.5 mph of my watch, but ABRP says my speed overreporting factor is 6.7%...which would be over 5 mph difference! 
Hi All
I have a UK Dec 2020 build (refresh with heat pump) LR. I understand I will have either the LG or capped Panasonic battery. I recently started using ABRP and noticed the battery degradation is sitting at 8.2% and a capacity of 72.5kwh. I have only covered 2,900 miles. I wondered if it is ‘true’ degradation? Or possibly if I have the capped Panasonic pack it’s reporting degradation/capacity against the locked value?
Any thoughts welcomed.
I have a UK Dec 2020 build (refresh with heat pump) LR. I understand I will have either the LG or capped Panasonic battery. I recently started using ABRP and noticed the battery degradation is sitting at 8.2% and a capacity of 72.5kwh. I have only covered 2,900 miles. I wondered if it is ‘true’ degradation? Or possibly if I have the capped Panasonic pack it’s reporting degradation/capacity against the locked value?
Any thoughts welcomed.
You can always send a msg to ABRP thru their twitter acct to find out how they determine over reporting. As for the deg figure, you have to supercharge for it to pull some data. It uses that to calculate your deg figure.I still don't quite understand what "Speed overreporting factor" means in ABRP, I also can't seem to get the "Degradation" number to show up. I've checked my speed vs. my GPS watch, and at 80 mph (car read out) it's within ~1.5 mph of my watch, but ABRP says my speed overreporting factor is 6.7%...which would be over 5 mph difference!
Barring that, I wonder if you could test the over reporting figure by changing tire pressures. You'd think it would get accurate data, since it must be pulling the speed data from the car, and then measuring it against GPS on your phone as well.
AlanSubie4Life
Efficiency Obsessed Member
European (and UK, very different than Europe, lol) 2021 LR non-P Model 3s are capped at around 75kWh for a full charge assuming an older “2170” type (not 2170L) Panasonic battery in perfect condition with Full Pack When New value of 77.8kWh.
The exact capping value - check the other sticky thread about “2021 Model 3” discussing all of this. 75kWh is not the exact cap.
So I’d estimate you have more like 3-4% capacity loss. But not really familiar with how TeslaFi comes up with their numbers.
You can always use the other sticky thread using the Energy Screen to calculate your battery capacity estimate, on your own, too, and see if it matches TeslaFi (I would use your own calculation and not TeslaFi’s if there is a discrepancy - the described method is proven to work).
As I mentioned above, I'd send ABRP a question thru their Twitter DM. My understanding is that they pull your charging data when you supercharge, and use that in their calculation. How they do the calculation, what start capacity assumptions, are not obvious.
Thanks both. I’ve only supercharged twice, so possibly need more data. I’ll also complete the manual calculation.
AlanSubie4Life
Efficiency Obsessed Member
Sorry, I meant ABRP! TeslaFi is not responsible for assuming your battery started at 79kWh! I definitely would take ABRPs estimates with a grain of salt - not sure how they are estimating. There's no reason they couldn't get it close to right, but it depends on a lot.Thanks both. I’ve only supercharged twice, so possibly need more data. I’ll also complete the manual calculation.
Energy screen FTW.
Candleflame
Active Member
This isnt teslafi, its arbp. Teslafi is much more accurate for degradation as it uses extrapolated 100% charges which is very, very accurate. Wrbp i think uses supercharger billing for kwh which isnt as good and prone to rounding errors.
AlanSubie4Life
Efficiency Obsessed Member
I only read the last few pages and I don't see this mentioned. I believe supercharging your car once in a while helps balance the cells. This is just my hypothesis.
Prior to Covid, I charged my car at work usually to 80% almost daily because my company offers it for free. The estimated range would go down over time to about 290-300 mile extrapolated to 100%. Then I would take a road trip ( 350 miles each way) where I charge to 100% or really close to it. About 2-3 weeks after the road trip, my mileage would slowly go back up. I thought that the cycling from 100% to 20% does work. I take these road trips 3-4 times a year. So each time my mileage drops below 300 miles, I would take one of these trips and my mileage recovers.
When the Covid shutdown started, I stopped taking these trips and stopped driving into work. At this time, my estimated 100% charge was around 300 miles. With more free time at home, I installed TeslaMate. I also had free supercharging miles that were expiring soon, so I decided to use it up. In the graph below with the blue marks is where I supercharged my car to 75-80%. I would then just leave my car unplugged and do the needed short trips until it reached around 30-35% then I supercharge it again. As you can see from the chart, the mileage started to increase.
Once my supercharging credits ended, I was left to charge at home. At this point I left my car charged around 55%. To my surprise, the estimated range kept close to my new car range of 308 miles. The range did finally dropped. I took a short trip (420 mile round trip) and supercharged in mid September. It didn't seem to trigger mileage recovery I was hoping. In mid October, I took my usual 700 mile round trip. This seems to trigger my mileage to go up again.
After my mileage dropped, I did try cycling my battery from 90% - 20% a few times using L2 charger. Neither time did it trigger the recovery process.
Car: 2018 LR RWD build date March 2018
Prior to Covid, I charged my car at work usually to 80% almost daily because my company offers it for free. The estimated range would go down over time to about 290-300 mile extrapolated to 100%. Then I would take a road trip ( 350 miles each way) where I charge to 100% or really close to it. About 2-3 weeks after the road trip, my mileage would slowly go back up. I thought that the cycling from 100% to 20% does work. I take these road trips 3-4 times a year. So each time my mileage drops below 300 miles, I would take one of these trips and my mileage recovers.
When the Covid shutdown started, I stopped taking these trips and stopped driving into work. At this time, my estimated 100% charge was around 300 miles. With more free time at home, I installed TeslaMate. I also had free supercharging miles that were expiring soon, so I decided to use it up. In the graph below with the blue marks is where I supercharged my car to 75-80%. I would then just leave my car unplugged and do the needed short trips until it reached around 30-35% then I supercharge it again. As you can see from the chart, the mileage started to increase.
Once my supercharging credits ended, I was left to charge at home. At this point I left my car charged around 55%. To my surprise, the estimated range kept close to my new car range of 308 miles. The range did finally dropped. I took a short trip (420 mile round trip) and supercharged in mid September. It didn't seem to trigger mileage recovery I was hoping. In mid October, I took my usual 700 mile round trip. This seems to trigger my mileage to go up again.
After my mileage dropped, I did try cycling my battery from 90% - 20% a few times using L2 charger. Neither time did it trigger the recovery process.
Car: 2018 LR RWD build date March 2018
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That ABRP figure is totally nonsensical.
On mine it shows 6.6% degradation with a battery capacity of 70.1kWh
I have no idea where it gets those numbers from. It doesn't match any data retrieved via the Tesla API nor what is carried on the CAN bus.
Well I read the whole thread - gradually, over a period of some weeks. I appreciate all of the input. But I must say, I do not see much consensus about a lot of the underlying issues:
- about real loss of range vs nominal loss of range due to calibration issues
- the degree to which real loss of range is a big issue for many Tesla drivers
- the degree to which, if it is a big issue, this is due to a fault on the part of Tesla vs. owners vs. random chance
- the best ways to minimize real loss of range through battery charging and related strategies
- whether real loss of range can be recovered to any degree.
There are a lot of forum members with strong but differing views on these subjects, but no real agreement.
- about real loss of range vs nominal loss of range due to calibration issues
- the degree to which real loss of range is a big issue for many Tesla drivers
- the degree to which, if it is a big issue, this is due to a fault on the part of Tesla vs. owners vs. random chance
- the best ways to minimize real loss of range through battery charging and related strategies
- whether real loss of range can be recovered to any degree.
There are a lot of forum members with strong but differing views on these subjects, but no real agreement.
I am looking to compare notes with others. I have a 2020 Model 3 long range AWD purchased in September of 2020 with 18K miles on it. Recently noticed a 1.5% loss in battery capacity. Is this something to be expected at this point? As a point of information I have less then 1.5 hours of total super charger time . Car stays plugged in on my 48 amp home charger Tesla set up at 90% and rarely has been discharged below 10%. Thanks for reading this, looking forward to hearing from others. John
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