Model 3 Performance VIN Discrepancy

[Jedi2155]

That being said, where does Tesla actually say it's anything physical versus just software? I've only read performance is a higher standard online and not in any of the Tesla literature - they just say the performance is faster, not why. I didn't really do my homework on the background.

There is likely no hardware differences between the Dual Motor and Dual Motor Performance Model 3's. I'm of the opinion that it is all software. There is hardware differences between the P3D- (no upgrade package) and the P3D+ (upgrade package). Now, Elon has specifically stated that the Performance Model 3 has a specially tested and sorted drive trains than the standard dual motor cars. I'm under the impression that this should apply to both P3D+ and P3D- (but some stories and behaviors make me question this). I think the standard AWD cars are simply software locked compared to the P3D's.

I am due to get mine delivered to me on Saturday night. I am ordering a 3D performance without the performance package. My worry is the same as everyone else who don't know if it's actually a performance version or the regular AWD. I have heard of some folks saying the performance without the performance package doesn't have a red underline, which then makes it almost impossible to tell from the AWD standard. Then I've heard that performance without the performance package has the red underline.

So I don't know what to believe anymore. So if anyone who has the performance without the performance package can chime in, that would be awesome.

You can check if you have a Performance Model 3 by pressing the Tesla logo on the top of the screen which shows your VIN and model type. The performance has the red underline whether you have the Upgrade Package or not. I responded on the tesla forum as well with your question.

 

[mpbruin108]

There is likely no hardware differences between the Dual Motor and Dual Motor Performance Model 3's. I'm of the opinion that it is all software. There is hardware differences between the P3D- (no upgrade package) and the P3D+ (upgrade package). Now, Elon has specifically stated that the Performance Model 3 has a specially tested and sorted drive trains than the standard dual motor cars. I'm under the impression that this should apply to both P3D+ and P3D- (but some stories and behaviors make me question this). I think the standard AWD cars are simply software locked compared to the P3D's.



You can check if you have a Performance Model 3 by pressing the Tesla logo on the top of the screen which shows your VIN and model type. The performance has the red underline whether you have the Upgrade Package or not. I responded on the tesla forum as well with your question.

Thanks for the clarification. I guess we shall see when they deliver the car. I just hope it isn't too dark since they said they would drop by from 7pm to 8pm.

 

[Jedi2155]

Thanks for the clarification. I guess we shall see when they deliver the car. I just hope it isn't too dark since they said they would drop by from 7pm to 8pm.

As far as I know, there's no physical way to tell the difference between an AWD and P3D- car other than the 0-60 acceleration. You can find out via the software though.

 

[rob968]

With all these P3D buyers getting AWD models that need to be firmware upgraded to the P...I’m wondering if any AWD buyers ended up with a nice red underline through the same confusion.

 

[Jedi2155]

With all these P3D buyers getting AWD models that need to be firmware upgraded to the P...I’m wondering if any AWD buyers ended up with a nice red underline through the same confusion.

Well, at least one candian AWD owner reported getting a P3D moroney sticker. So they could downgrade your car prior to delivery too

 

[AeroEngineer]

I am scheduled to take delivery of Model 3 Performance on Thursday. I have a VIN that indicates standard dual motor but not performance dual motor based on the VIN tools I have found. Could someone who bought a Model 3 Performance version confirm the VIN number?

VIN 5YJ3E1EB9JF055xxx

I would interested to see if anyone has a Model 3 Performance with a "4" as the 8th digit of their VIN. The decoder I've seen online (posted on Electrek) appeared to be within an actual letter from Tesla to the NHTSA for the Model 3, and specifically said that "B" was for "Dual Motor - Standard". Maybe that has changed for the 2018 model year, but I'd still like to confirm.

Why I'm interested: I just took delivery of a P3D- on September 30th. The Monroney sticker does NOT show the performance option, but the information in the car's display does have the red bar below "Dual Motor", which was good enough for me to accept the car. I've asked for a corrected Monroney for resale purposes, but now I'm paranoid that my car started out as a standard dual motor and was simply uncorked with software to help fill the order. Which then makes me wonder if my motors and inverters may fail prematurely since they are not the hand-picked 'top shelf' hardware that is supposed to be part of the Performance package.

So, anyone with a P3D, especially those with a P3D+, please let us all know what your 8th digit is.

 

[stillwaiting]

I would interested to see if anyone has a Model 3 Performance with a "4" as the 8th digit of their VIN. The decoder I've seen online (posted on Electrek) appeared to be within an actual letter from Tesla to the NHTSA for the Model 3, and specifically said that "B" was for "Dual Motor - Standard". Maybe that has changed for the 2018 model year, but I'd still like to confirm.

Why I'm interested: I just took delivery of a P3D- on September 30th. The Monroney sticker does NOT show the performance option, but the information in the car's display does have the red bar below "Dual Motor", which was good enough for me to accept the car. I've asked for a corrected Monroney for resale purposes, but now I'm paranoid that my car started out as a standard dual motor and was simply uncorked with software to help fill the order. Which then makes me wonder if my motors and inverters may fail prematurely since they are not the hand-picked 'top shelf' hardware that is supposed to be part of the Performance package.

So, anyone with a P3D, especially those with a P3D+, please let us all know what your 8th digit is.

I found a few p3d+ with B instead of 4 and gave up on this search.

 

[mattjs33]

How much more is the P version than the standard? That's some expensive damn code.

I'm in the wrong business.

I highly suspect there has never been any physical difference between any P versions and their base counterparts. Furthermore, I suspect the differences in battery pack capability are merely software unlocked as well. There's evidence to support this. Interesting that Tesla does not code battery size in their VINs.

 

[AeroEngineer]

I found a few p3d+ with B instead of 4 and gave up on this search.

What I'm really interested in is whether anyone has a 4 code. Would show that Tesla designates some cars as a performance model at the VIN level instead of just giving all AWD cars the B code.

 

[rrollens]

As far as I know, there's no physical way to tell the difference between an AWD and P3D- car other than the 0-60 acceleration. You can find out via the software though.

The OEM badge will tell you it is a Performance, and not a AWD. And of course you can race them and quickly tell the difference!

 

[brianman]

I’d been shorted the carvon fiber spoiler.

To my knowledge, few or none of the Model 3 Performance vehicles delivered to customers have the spoiler or the emblems on the trunk. Mine has neither. I've been told (by my service center ~ a month ago) that the emblems "will begin" printing in October (but no specific ETA on when they'll arrive).

 

[brianman]

So, now that I have the spoilerless model 3 with the ambiguous VIN, how do I confirm that I have the performance model sans the spoiler vs the standard dual moter plus fancy pedels and wheels?

I see nothing in or on the car anywhere that says performance.

My VIN also does not indicate Performance AFAICT. The wheels (20" delivered with Michelin Pilot Sport 4S) and the actual behavior of the vehicle (at the track) indicate that my vehicle is indeed Performance. YMMV.

 

[brianman]

The sticker Title is "TESLA Model 3 Long Range AWD" and under as configured there is nothing that indicates Performance it states "Long Range Dual Motor All-Wheel Drive $19,000".

As one of the volunteers at Bellevue SC over the weekend, I did two orientations for Model 3 Performance where "something seemed off". One of them had PUO, and the other did not. For the former, I was confident the vehicle was probably correct; for the latter, I wasn't so sure. For both of them, I reached out to a tech to look into the vehicle.

Recalling some points (that hopefully I won't misremember)…

Some of the Model 3 Performance vehicles at delivery will not say Performance anywhere on the Monroney sticker [Monroney sticker - Wikipedia]. It is a printing issue, and related to the fact that the emblems and spoiler are not available yet. I was told this would be corrected (i.e. emblems + spoiler + new printing) for those delivered vehicles in the future.

On one of the two vehicles (the one with PUO), the "About" screen (press the Tesla T at the top of the Model 3 display) did not show the red underline. I also noticed -- later in the orientation -- that the Lock/Unlock chime setting was absent. The latter clued me that this might be a firmware issue with older firmware. Newer firmware was pushed to the vehicle and the driver/owner left before I had a chance to check in on him. I did recommend (before leaving him with the tech) that he get in writing (e-mail or signed paper) confirmation from Tesla that the vehicle is the Performance configuration that he ordered and that the statement be accompanied with his name and VIN.

For the other vehicle, the owner also chose to continue with delivery and I lost track of him too. (We were quite busy.)

I joked with the tech later (when we happened to have lunch around the same time, ~3:15p) that if I see another one that I'm going home to grab Beatrice to use the drag race test to verify that his vehicle is properly Performance.

 

[ulrichw]

Here's the VIN document for MY2018 filed with NHTSA by Tesla: https://vpic.nhtsa.dot.gov/mid/home/displayfile/9d71d5c8-a6ff-45de-88ae-8ea1da8dd324

This document clearly specifies that the 4 code is for Models S/X whereas the B code is for the Model 3.

There is no separate VIN code for the Performance Model 3 which *strongly* suggests that the drive unit hardware for the AWD and the Performance is the same.

Here's the full excerpt of the drive unit designation:
Digit 8: Motor/Drive Unit
1= Single Motor – Standard (Designated for Model S)
3= Single Motor – Performance (Designated for Model S)
2 = Dual Motor (standard) (Designated for Model S & Model X)
4 = Dual Motor (performance) (Designated for Model S & Model X)
A= Single Motor – Standard (Designated for Model 3)
B = Dual Motor – Standard (Designated for Model 3)

Some of the confusion was generated (IMO) because the MY2017 filing, while very similar, did not designate which codes went with which models.

 

[mattjs33]

Tesla has not coded Performance or standard in their VINs for the Model 3. Why, is anyone's guess. But since I am anyone, I'll surmise that it's because the difference is purely software coding.

I'll ask again, How much more is Performance over standard?

Talk about easy money. People pay for it, and have no idea how to tell whether they actually got it.

 

[ulrichw]

Tesla has not coded Performance or standard in their VINs for the Model 3. Why, is anyone's guess.[...]

It's actually not that mysterious: The VIN format is dictated by Federal regulation. Federal regulation requires a different code for different engine configurations (which extends to the motor/drive unit for electric cars).
If there were different hardware, Tesla would be required to use a different VIN code.

[...]
I'll ask again, How much more is Performance over standard?

That's pretty easy for anyone to figure out, but I'll save you the small effort: $9,000 at current prices (started out at $11,000)

Talk about easy money. People pay for it, and have no idea how to tell whether they actually got it.

The first time you floor the accelerator pedal you'll know whether you have it or not. (I paid the $11,000 extra)

 

[mattjs33]

It's actually not that mysterious: The VIN format is dictated by Federal regulation. Federal regulation requires a different code for different engine configurations (which extends to the motor/drive unit for electric cars).
If there were different hardware, Tesla would be required to use a different VIN code.

I'm highly aware of VIN coding rules. If a manufacturer wants to split out different horsepower ratings of the same engine, they can do so. I could probably find numerous examples. The question is why Tesla didn't care to code their Performance models differently, considering how cheeky they are about it (Ludicrous Mode for example).

That's pretty easy for anyone to figure out, but I'll save you the small effort: $9,000 at current prices (started out at $11,000)

GOOD LORD. Eleven thousand dollars for software coding??? No wonder Tesla's margins are higher than anyone else's. That sound you hear is Elon snickering.

 

[ulrichw]

I'm highly aware of VIN coding rules. If a manufacturer wants to split out different horsepower ratings of the same engine, they can do so. I could probably find numerous examples. The question is why Tesla didn't care to code their Performance models differently, considering how cheeky they are about it (Ludicrous Mode for example).

I'd like to see some examples - I don't believe many ICE vendors have different horsepower ratings for engines without changing some mechanical components (It's possible to have a purely "chipped" variant, but I don't know of this actually being done - My Mustang Boss 302 has the same displacement as the stock GT, but has a different intake manifold along with a few other minor mechanical differences)

GOOD LORD. Eleven thousand dollars for software coding??? No wonder Tesla's margins are higher than anyone else's. That sound you hear is Elon snickering.

Oh, it's even worse than that. The "coding" is really just setting one (or maybe a few) configuration values in some configuration table somewhere. It's almost certainly *much* less work than a "tune" on an ICE car - from acceleration graphs it looks like they just cap the torque of the AWD at a lower level than the Performance. Once the motor passes the constant torque phase (about 45 mph) the acceleration on the cars appears to be very similar.

 

[AeroEngineer]

As one of the volunteers at Bellevue SC over the weekend, I did two orientations for Model 3 Performance where "something seemed off". One of them had PUO, and the other did not. For the former, I was confident the vehicle was probably correct; for the latter, I wasn't so sure. For both of them, I reached out to a tech to look into the vehicle.

Recalling some points (that hopefully I won't misremember)…

Some of the Model 3 Performance vehicles at delivery will not say Performance anywhere on the Monroney sticker [Monroney sticker - Wikipedia]. It is a printing issue, and related to the fact that the emblems and spoiler are not available yet. I was told this would be corrected (i.e. emblems + spoiler + new printing) for those delivered vehicles in the future.

On one of the two vehicles (the one with PUO), the "About" screen (press the Tesla T at the top of the Model 3 display) did not show the red underline. I also noticed -- later in the orientation -- that the Lock/Unlock chime setting was absent. The latter clued me that this might be a firmware issue with older firmware. Newer firmware was pushed to the vehicle and the driver/owner left before I had a chance to check in on him. I did recommend (before leaving him with the tech) that he get in writing (e-mail or signed paper) confirmation from Tesla that the vehicle is the Performance configuration that he ordered and that the statement be accompanied with his name and VIN.

For the other vehicle, the owner also chose to continue with delivery and I lost track of him too. (We were quite busy.)

I joked with the tech later (when we happened to have lunch around the same time, ~3:15p) that if I see another one that I'm going home to grab Beatrice to use the drag race test to verify that his vehicle is properly Performance.

Hi Brian,
I believe I was your non-PUO orientation. Once the tech finished with the firmware update I double-checked that my 'About' screen showed the red underline. At that point I decided I would confirm what I actually had with a road test and come back if I wasn't convinced.

We then went inside to ask why the referral code I had for unlimited supercharging was never added to my order. They recommended that I call Tesla service later in the day (which I did, and they had me contact Tesla referrals). I received an email back the next day confirming that I will be getting the supercharging.

After leaving the SC, it took about a block before I was convinced I had the right amount of torque. The car is a beast. I still need to do a proper 0-60 run but it appears to easily be sub-four seconds.

While I was on the phone with Tesla service I mentioned my incorrect Monroney sticker and he assured me I would be getting a new one. I assume that will be when the trunk emblem comes in.

Other than the paperwork issue and the ambiguous VIN code, the car is nearly perfect. My wife found one tiny scratch on the front passenger door panel that I'm ok with (I intend to USE the car, after all), and so far everything works!

 

[AeroEngineer]

Here's the VIN document for MY2018 filed with NHTSA by Tesla: https://vpic.nhtsa.dot.gov/mid/home/displayfile/9d71d5c8-a6ff-45de-88ae-8ea1da8dd324

This document clearly specifies that the 4 code is for Models S/X whereas the B code is for the Model 3.

There is no separate VIN code for the Performance Model 3 which *strongly* suggests that the drive unit hardware for the AWD and the Performance is the same.

Here's the full excerpt of the drive unit designation:
Digit 8: Motor/Drive Unit
1= Single Motor – Standard (Designated for Model S)
3= Single Motor – Performance (Designated for Model S)
2 = Dual Motor (standard) (Designated for Model S & Model X)
4 = Dual Motor (performance) (Designated for Model S & Model X)
A= Single Motor – Standard (Designated for Model 3)
B = Dual Motor – Standard (Designated for Model 3)

Some of the confusion was generated (IMO) because the MY2017 filing, while very similar, did not designate which codes went with which models.

Good information, thanks. I feel a little better about my car now.