Model 3 pricing and competition

[banned-66611]

The M3 SR is supposed to start at $35k, for a 50kWh battery and no extras.

Well Hyundai is shipping the Kona EV with a 68kWh battery (64kWh usable), and the top spec model with steering assist, ventilated seats, Android Auto, 100kW charging etc. is also about $35k.

Kia is releasing the Niro in a similar price bracket and Nissan are launching the Leaf 60, both with the same battery pack as the Kona.

Given that by the time Tesla actually gets around to making any M3SRs are we likely to see a price cut given the low range? For that matter, what about the LR version which is closer to these cars in terms of range (only 7kWh more energy)?

 

[vigge50]

Where have you got the price information about Kona? The price of Kona EV with big battery is about $39k in Norway and even if the battery is bigger then Model 3 SR I’m not sure the range is much longer. For that price you also get the premium package for Model 3 and maybe it don’t have ventilated seats and Android auto but does Kona have everything Model 3 have? It can take 100 kW with CCS but how many CCS stations can give 100 kW?

 

[Saghost]

Tesla believes the Model 3's competition is BMW 3 series, Audi A4, and Mercedes C-class. They priced accordingly.

 

[PoitNarf]

Price cut? Not a chance. At least in the US demand will remain high for quite some time so they have no incentive to cut the price. If you’re selling every car you make why offer any discounts?

Also you can’t go comparing range using battery capacities. I’m sure the Wh/mi (or Wh/km) efficiencies of the other models you listed vary a bit. Saying an EV gets better range than another EV because it has a larger battery capacity is like saying an ICE car has better range than another ICE car because it has a bigger gas tank. This is one of the reasons why Tesla started moving away from battery capacity badging with the Model 3.

 

[EVMeister]

They aren't in the same class as the Model 3 for looks or performance as far as I'm concerned. I'm UPGRADING from a Renault ZOE to Model 3 at some point. To me that competition you mentioned would feel more like a sidegrade in many respects. I'm also looking forward to being able to access the Supercharger network. The current alternative rapid charging infrastructure leaves a lot to be desired here in the UK.

 

[diamond.g]

I think that Tesla isn't seeing other BEVs as competition and even if BEVs were, it would be vehicles from BMW/Mecedes/Audi instead of Hyundai and Kia.

 

[banned-66611]

Kona pricing in the UK used as a reference. With all tax and PICG you will be able to get the top spec for about £31k, or about £29k for the base 64kWh model. Remember that's 64kWh usable, presumably the M3 SR will be about 47kWh usable so a difference of about 26% extra in the Kona.

M3 SR plus AP would be around £35-36k by the most optimistic estimates.

WLTP range (realistic) for the Kona is about 300 miles. Their other EV, the Ioniq, was very efficient so that seems reasonable to me.

The top spec is similar in spec to a Model 3 with AP, although with more luxuries. Actually the lower spec is close to the M3 SR without AP, although does include a few nicities that the M3 doesn't have. All the usual stuff is there like auto headlights, auto wipers, 1 pedal driving etc. Also has a nice HUD.

Performance wise it's a 160kW motor, not quite as powerful as the M3 SR but not by any means slow. There are quite a lot of 100kW CCS chargers in Europe (actually most are 150kW) and more going in all the time. The networks are competitive with Tesla's.

In the US the Kona has an unlimited battery warranty (70%, unlimited miles/time). In the EU it seems to be 70%/200,000km/8 years.

Also the Kona is already delivered to customers in Korea. EU deliveries expected for September.

 

[Runt8]

I can get a Kia Optima that goes 539 miles on a single tank for $22k. The BMW 320i only goes 442 miles and costs $35k, do you think BMW will lower its prices?

 

[Tiger]

The top spec is similar in spec to a Model 3 with AP, although with more luxuries. Actually the lower spec is close to the M3 SR without AP, although does include a few nicities that the M3 doesn't have. All the usual stuff is there like auto headlights, auto wipers, 1 pedal driving etc. Also has a nice HUD.

Performance wise it's a 160kW motor, not quite as powerful as the M3 SR but not by any means slow. There are quite a lot of 100kW CCS chargers in Europe (actually most are 150kW) and more going in all the time. The networks are competitive with Tesla's.

All the small differences add up, so it's not just about range. However, that said, for me the most important deciding factors would be:

• performance, Tesla has better performance, probably also range
  
• looks and design, Tesla is likely more sexy
• roominess, Tesla is likely roomier both cabin and cargo, but Hyundai easier access to trunk
  
• better ground clearance, Hyundai suv-like design probably wins here
  
• serviceability, Hyundai is likely easier to service than a Tesla
• getting updates to the car, Tesla probably wins here (in Elon time though)
  
• range and charging, I would look into my region whether 150kw chargers are actually available; for example here in Estonia (we don't have any superchargers), many regions have lots of EV taxis and all chademo 50kw charging stations are occupied by taxis so you'll wait so long that effective charging rate is probably 22kw.

Being 6.3' with kids, currently my choice is a loaded Skoda Superb Combi awd. Will get an MX as soon as it has usable range for our region, and a service center wouldn't hurt either.

 

[ℬête Noire]

The M3 SR is supposed to start at $35k, for a 50kWh battery and no extras.

Well Hyundai is shipping the Kona EV with a 68kWh battery (64kWh usable), and the top spec model with steering assist, ventilated seats, Android Auto, 100kW charging etc. is also about $35k.

Kia is releasing the Niro in a similar price bracket and Nissan are launching the Leaf 60, both with the same battery pack as the Kona.

Given that by the time Tesla actually gets around to making any M3SRs are we likely to see a price cut given the low range? For that matter, what about the LR version which is closer to these cars in terms of range (only 7kWh more energy)?

For some definition of "shipping" (not sure about quantities/availability yet? *cough*ZEVcompliance*cough*) but yes, it's awesome. Right? Welcome to the future!

Given that by the time Tesla actually gets around to making any M3SRs are we likely to see a price cut given the low range? For that matter, what about the LR version which is closer to these cars in terms of range (only 7kWh more energy)?

Price cut? No.

The Kona's EPA listed range is I believe 250mi, to the 220mi for the SR. Hopefully Kona's range is as realistic miles as the Model 3's has shown itself. But even that is hardly the only measure to use to determine value. Unless it's a stinker, the Kona will probably pick up some customers that may otherwise stretch into the Model 3. The pie is growing, so there can be room for all manufacturer sales numbers to grow but facing off against Tesla in the US is going to be very tough for anyone with a stone's throw of their price-point. We've seeing this with the Bolt right now, I believe, who's doing gangbusters in Korea but whose US sales are collapsing in the face of widespread shipping availability of a $10K higher priced Model 3. I don't think it's Chevy severely choking availability due to per unit loses?

 

[diamond.g]

For some definition of "shipping" (not sure about quantities/availability yet? *cough*ZEVcompliance*cough*) but yes, it's awesome. Right? Welcome to the future!


Price cut? No.

The Kona's EPA listed range is I believe 250mi, to the 220mi for the SR. Hopefully Kona's range is as realistic miles as the Model 3's has shown itself. But even that is hardly the only measure to use to determine value. Unless it's a stinker, the Kona will probably pick up some customers that may otherwise stretch into the Model 3. The pie is growing, so there can be room for all manufacturer sales numbers to grow but facing off against Tesla in the US is going to be very tough for anyone with a stone's throw of their price-point. We've seeing this with the Bolt right now, I believe, who's doing gangbusters in Korea but whose US sales are collapsing in the face of widespread shipping availability of a $10K higher priced Model 3. I don't think it's Chevy severely choking availability due to per unit loses?

Some folks think that GM is sandbagging shipments of EVs to the US to extend the full tax credit to next year.

 

[ℬête Noire]

Some folks think that GM is sandbagging shipments of EVs to the US to extend the full tax credit to next year.

That could be. The math on that would square because "200K mark now sliding to Q1" is exactly what I thought when looking at the numbers. They are supposed to be trying to ship new BEV variants/models in 2019. Having the full rebate in effect for the first half of the year would be helpful getting those off the ground.

I haven't been checking, what's the dealership inventory looking like these days?

 

[adaptabl]

Tesla believes the Model 3's competition is BMW 3 series, Audi A4, and Mercedes C-class. They priced accordingly.

The base model competition is the Accord and Camry.

 

[diamond.g]

The base model competition is the Accord and Camry.

Aren’t those models fully decked out at that price?

 

[ℬête Noire]

Aren’t those models fully decked out at that price?

They'd need a premium tech package, at least. I'm not sure how their options are structured these days.

 

[diamond.g]

They'd need a premium tech package, at least. I'm not sure how their options are structured these days.

I mean for 35k I wouldn’t be looking at a Toyota I would be looking at Lexus... but maybe that is just me.

 

[ℬête Noire]

I mean for 35k I wouldn’t be looking at a Toyota I would be looking at Lexus... but maybe that is just me.

I think you're missing their implied sub-text "at $35K the Model 3 is a wildly overpriced car for what you get, because EVs always cost $10K than their ICE competitor".

It's an old saw that used to have bite but is quickly loosing it's teeth, so the comparisons to try make the argument are getting more, and more absurd.

 

[Krugerrand]

Model 3 pricing and competition:

Pricing: exactly as it should be
Competition: none in the BEV world

Feel free to purchase a BEV from any other OEM and help perserve what’s left of this planet and its inhabitants. Won’t hurt Tesla’s feelings. But for the love of God, stop being ridiculous with the whole competition thing. Boring. Let’s go to You Tube.

 

[JeffK]

Kona is not a sedan for starters. It's more like a low powered Model Y.

 

[Saghost]

The base model competition is the Accord and Camry.

Nope. Tesla may (probably will) pull some buyers from those cars, but the base is priced and equipped to match the BMW 318 without options and a similar base model A4.

Of course, the 3 has a big edge in TCO, and will probably pencil out below a Camry or Accord using five year TCO numbers, but most buyers judge on sticker instead.