Model 3 Projected 0-60 Times

[Garlan Garner]

The front motor maybe, but not the rear. I don't know about the S100D

Tesla only makes 2 motors for the Model S. However they make 4 different versions of the "D". All 4 have different 0-60 times...WITH THE SAME 2 MOTORS. Why? answer = The batteries. Not the motors.

I must admit that the P100D has a different relay and wires to handle the current draw, however Tesla allows that because the depletion rate of each cell in the battery is at an "acceptable" number. Tesla warranties the batteries and they just aren't going to allow motors on the non P100D to degrade a product that they cover under warranty. They protect their warranty with software limitations.

 

[diamond.g]

Tesla only makes 2 motors for the Model S. However they make 4 different versions of the "D". All 4 have different 0-60 times...WITH THE SAME 2 MOTORS. Why? answer = The batteries. Not the motors.

I must admit that the P100D has a different relay and wires to handle the current draw, however Tesla allows that because the depletion rate of each cell in the battery is at an "acceptable" number. Tesla warranties the batteries and they just aren't going to allow motors on the non P100D to degrade a product that they cover under warranty. They protect their warranty with software limitations.

The P100D and the S100D have different 0-60 times because they use different motors. Go Model S | Tesla and scroll down to where it shows you the difference. It is possible for the AWD 3 to follow in the same foot steps (confirmed by different roll out time for the AWD version versus the Performance version).

 

[ikjadoon]

Tesla only makes 2 motors for the Model S. However they make 4 different versions of the "D". All 4 have different 0-60 times...WITH THE SAME 2 MOTORS. Why? answer = The batteries. Not the motors.

I must admit that the P100D has a different relay and wires to handle the current draw, however Tesla allows that because the depletion rate of each cell in the battery is at an "acceptable" number. Tesla warranties the batteries and they just aren't going to allow motors on the non P100D to degrade a product that they cover under warranty. They protect their warranty with software limitations.

Er, they make 3 motors: small front, small rear, big rear.

RWD: big rear
AWD: small rear + small front
P100D: big rear + small front

AWD versions get the rear small motor. This is right on the Model S homepage.

 

[ModelNforNerd]

Audi and BMW quote 7.1s for their competing base models 0-60 times (A4 and 320i). 5.6s is fast compared to that.

You'd need to get up to models in the $50k-ish range to get sedans with a 5s-5.2s 0-60 time. A Model 3 75D would need to beat 5 seconds to be ahead of the competition at that price point.

*shrug* I got my Audi A3 down into the low 5's with an ECU reflash and a cold air intake. OEM's neuter some of their cars on the mass market.


EDIT: a few years old, but here are some of the models roughly in the Model 3's ballpark, tested against each other.

2015 Audi A3 Quattro vs. 2014 BMW 228i, 2014 Mercedes-Benz CLA250 4MATIC - Comparison Tests

 

[Tummy]

Tesla has two different motors. I'll call them small and large.

RWD - Small Rear
D - Small Rear + Small Front
P - Large Rear + Small Front

The different power levels are limited by software and inverter. The P models require a different inverter and safety fuse.

Small motor 18,200 RPM
Larger motor 18,700 RPM (available on rear of Performance versions only)

S60D – 259 hp motor power front and rear, 328 hp total battery limited
S70D – 259 hp motor power front and rear, 328 hp total battery limited (discontinued in June 2016)
90D/X90D – 259 hp motor power front and rear, 417 hp total battery limited
100D/X100D – Unknown, but more than 90D/X90D.
P90D/PX90D – 259 hp motor power front, 503 hp motor power rear, 463 hp total battery limited
P90DL/PX90DL – 259 hp motor power front, 503 hp motor power rear, 532 hp total battery limited
P100DL/PX100DL – Unknown, but more than P90DL/PX90DL.

Reduction gear ratio- Large motor 9.73 to 1, Small motor 9.34:1

 

[Chris L]

The two prototype Model 3s were dual-motor, and passengers at the reveal commented that they were almost as quick as the faster Model Ss. Elon later said the production dual-motor Model 3s would be a lot faster than the prototypes. For what that's worth. Of course, plans can change.

 

[ikjadoon]

Another good link I remembered.

The Rolling Start, A Better EV Performance Metric

Most ICE cars require pre-torquing, launch control, and their turbos spun up before you can ever hit their 0-60mph times. Meaning, in normal day-to-day driving, you don't feel 5.3s launches in the BMW 328i. If you test its 5-60mph time, it slows down to 6.3 seconds. Completely backwards as unless you're revving the 328i at every stop-light, your launches are slower than a Toyota Camry V6.

The opposite is true in EVs. Until you get to below 3s (where launch control is needed even in EVs to make sure the tires don't squeal from the massive torque), EVs give you their rated performance even on rolling starts.

Car & Driver always gives 0-60 and 5-60; I'm curious, with the introduction of more and more EVs, whether others will follow suit. And, to be honest, some ICE cars do this better. BMW and Audi are the worst examples, gaining full seconds over their rated speeds with rolling starts.

 

[Dynastar]

Tesla has two different motors. I'll call them small and large.

RWD - Small Rear
D - Small Rear + Small Front
P - Large Rear + Small Front

This is incorrect, the RWD motor is bigger then the D small motor- 382 hp.

 

[Zoomit]

Car & Driver always gives 0-60 and 5-60; I'm curious, with the introduction of more and more EVs, whether others will follow suit.

Good question. I don't drag race so the 5-60 numbers are much more relevant to me than 0-60. The rolling start numbers more closely represent what everyone feels during normal driving.

 

[FlatSix911]

0-60 Times	Model S	Model 3 (more likely)
Base Model	5.5s	5.6s
Base + D	5.2s	5.3s
Upgraded Battery + D	4.2s	4.3s - 4.7s
Upgraded Battery + PDL	2.5s	2.6s - 3.5s

I think you have arrived at the most likely correct answer...the relative performance gaps will mirror the model S with the exception on the PDL.
If a Ludicrous version is offered, I would expect a step price premium and barely sub 4 second time ... perhaps 3.9

 

[Model S M.D.]

I think you have arrived at the most likely correct answer...the relative performance gaps will mirror the model S with the exception on the PDL.
If a Ludicrous version is offered, I would expect a step price premium and barely sub 4 second time ... perhaps 3.9

They are gonna want to beat/embarrass the BMW M3, which is about 3.9 I believe. I'm thinking low to mid 3s for the Model 3 P75D.

 

[FlatSix911]

They are gonna want to beat/embarrass the BMW M3, which is about 3.9 I believe. I'm thinking low to mid 3s for the Model 3 P75D.

Good point ... Tesla could deliver a 3.8 second PDL Model 3 and the market would support a $70K price.

I think if they can beat BMW, just slightly, with each comparably priced car, everything will be fine. So let's take a look what BMW offers:
320i: $33,450 7.1s
320ix: $35,450 7.1s
330i: $38,750 5.5s
330ix: $40750 5.5s
340i: $47,900 4.8s
340ix: $49900 4.6s
M3: $64000 3.9s

So with the base Model 3 having a 0-60 of 5.6s, they would be really close to the 330i, which will be $3,750 more expensive. I don't know how the rest of the lineup will compete and how expensive it will be, but it isn't too hard to beat. We would need no sub 3 second P75D, or a sub 4 second 75D. Both would be nice, but nothing I expect from Tesla.

 

[FlatSix911]

Great chart ... need to update the current Tesla Model S pricing

According to this chart, some of the RWD Model S's with bigger batteries that existed at the same time had faster 0-60 times than the smaller battery variants, but some did not.

A bigger battery would mean more "juice" to send to the motor, right? Would it just be dependent on if the motor spec can handle it?

 

[Tummy]

This is incorrect, the RWD motor is bigger then the D small motor- 382 hp.

Elon musk is quoted as saying they are the same.
Elon Musk talks Tesla

Demand for the P85D is off the charts. We’re seeing a very high proportion of orders for all-wheel drive, either P85D or 85D (which has smaller, equal sized electric motors front and rear), so 70% plus of our cars will be dual motor.

 

[diamond.g]

Elon musk is quoted as saying they are the same.
Elon Musk talks Tesla

I don't think that is right. The P85D and the P85 share the same rear motor. The P85D and the 85D share the same front motor. The P85 and the 85D do not share the same rear motor.

Serioulsy go Model S | Tesla and scroll down to the section that talks about the drive train. You can switch between the various configurations and see the difference.

 

[ikjadoon]

Elon musk is quoted as saying they are the same.
Elon Musk talks Tesla

Er, I think Elon is agreeing with us: the front and rear motors are equal-sized in AWD Teslas.

The parentheses, I mean, apply only to the 85D. The 85D has two small motors, equal in size.

 

[zenmaster]

The gap between EV capabilities vs ICE is (slowing) shrinking, which is good for EV adoption rate. However, certain myopic comments touting "performance" advantages over ICE, in threads like these, are cringe worthy. It would be helpful to the EV industry's progress in surpassing ICE capability, if more EV customers had a little more sophisticated expectations of what a performance car should provide. That is, a concern with overall performance and driving enjoyment rather than a focus on 0-60 times. Tesla and other EV makers purporting to produce a performance-oriented car need to work on major engineering problems like weight reduction, road feel (steering feedback), handling and endurance (thermal management).

 

[timk225]

It's all in the controllers. Small motor, big motor, makes less difference. Tesla allows the controller to dump X amount of amps to the motor or motors to get X 0-60 time. Getting a single motor 3 to go as fast as a dual motor 3 is as simple as pushing more electrons into it, if the motor and drivetrain itself can handle it.

Put another way, a base single motor 3 could run 5.2, 5.6, or 6.7 0-60. It's all in what Tesla decides to give us for the dollars spent. As soon as the programming for each level of performance in the controller is complete, it is a money machine for Tesla after that.

 

[stopcrazypp]

It's all in the controllers. Small motor, big motor, makes less difference. Tesla allows the controller to dump X amount of amps to the motor or motors to get X 0-60 time. Getting a single motor 3 to go as fast as a dual motor 3 is as simple as pushing more electrons into it, if the motor and drivetrain itself can handle it.

Put another way, a base single motor 3 could run 5.2, 5.6, or 6.7 0-60. It's all in what Tesla decides to give us for the dollars spent. As soon as the programming for each level of performance in the controller is complete, it is a money machine for Tesla after that.

It's not that simple. Even in ICE cars, there's headroom to tune them for more power with nothing other than a software update (esp. with turbos being so popular today).

However, for manufacturers, they also have to care about longevity of the engine. I just read this article today where Honda talks about this.
http://jalopnik.com/honda-kept-the-civic-si-s-power-down-so-the-engine-woul-1795796970

In a similar manner, most EV drivetrains and batteries can handle more power than what the manufacturer tuned them for, but to keep with warranty and longevity targets, they set them lower. Tesla's ludicrous mode is an example of pushing things to the extreme, which caused some trouble (see the whole counter controversy).

 

[Siciliano]

My $0.02...low 4s or maybe just under 4 for the highest performance model. There's no way any version of the 3 will get to sub 3's.