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Model 3 Range decreased again...

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Following a concerning trend in my range. I'm going to keep an eye on this thread and try out some of the suggestions made. My last charge was from 18-90%. Car is approaching 4k miles and range started heading downwards after 2020.36.10

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There are 128 vehicles with charges at your current odometer reading.
124 Vehicles have a higher range. 4 Vehicles have a lower range.
Your range is better than 3 % of similar users.
 

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Following a concerning trend in my range. I'm going to keep an eye on this thread and try out some of the suggestions made. My last charge was from 18-90%. Car is approaching 4k miles and range started heading downwards after 2020.36.10

View attachment 596465
There are 128 vehicles with charges at your current odometer reading.
124 Vehicles have a higher range. 4 Vehicles have a lower range.
Your range is better than 3 % of similar users.

just observe, could just be early degradation, if it stays like this the next 10k miles its all good.
 
I went ahead and tried this even though I barely drive nowadays. I think since this last post of mine in July, I only charged my car to 90% 4 times, each time I let it run down to at least 30% before charging. I purposely tried to drive a little more often these past few months and it still took me on average over a week to go from 90%-30% Though I didn't ever charge it to 100%, at 90%, my predicted range is now roughly 279 miles, which extrapolated to 100% is around 310. Compared to the extrapolated 290-295 miles at 100% before this little experiment, I'd say it really helped a lot.

just curious what year and month is your model 3 and which model is it ie Performance or Long Range?
 
It’s in my signature but it’s a 2018 LR RWD, got it Dec. 2018, just over 20k miles on it.

edit: sorry, forgot, mobile can’t see signature.

Wow, so if you are still getting est of 310 at 100% close to 2 yrs.....thats basically no lost in capacity and pretty amazing? Curiously how many times have you charged to 100% and what is the lowest soc you have run the car down to?

So are you saying that you've been trying out new charging habits for about 4 weeks now of 90% down to 30% soc? And as a result you've now back to 310 est from about 290 previously?

During your weekly discharge from 90% to 30%, roughly what soc are you letting the car sleep during that cycle? Are you discharging at a consistent set percentage each day?

My car is just over a year old (M3P 2019 Aug) with only 3200miles. I started at an est 310.8miles @ 100%.
Now i'm down to an est of 298 @ 100%
Like you its takes me week or more to discharge from 90% down to a lower soc. So have only recently started this experiment.
During your experiment, i assume you have avoided any software updates? To keep the test results consistent?

Thanks
 
Every battery will degrade, and every battery will degrade at a different rate.
Really, only Tesla can tell if the battery has degradation outside of the normal range.
I believe they already have on paper, that if it degrades more than 30% while under warranty, you get a replacement.

I suspect the reason they have it at 30%, is because if you abuse your battery, it can degrade quicker than others. The warranty protects us, but also Tesla against this abuse.

NO ONE here with significant battery degradation is going to say, “my battery has degraded more than most, because I abuse it”. :)
(Not suggesting that you did though either).

A modem combustion engine can last many decades, or 12 months, depending on how you treat it, or abuse it.
There are many things you can do to dramatically shorten the life of a combustion engine.
The same applies to our batteries.
-Charging to 100% too often, can quicken degradation.
-Charging to 100% and letting it sit there too many times, can quicken degradation.
-Using Superchargers too often, can quicken degradation. (As per popular belief)
-A lot of fast discharging, (eg. Too many 0-60 runs), (Have been rumored to quicken degradation).
If you do all of these or most of these, you will quicken degradation even more.

It’s still good to read about who is experiencing degradation, so we get a flavour of what’s going on, but only Tesla can determine if the degradation is self imposed or premature, based on data from the car.
Like I said, no one here is going to say, “I have excessive degradation, and it’s due to battery abuse as per above.” :)

There is only one person on this forum, that admitted to doing several things in the list above that will quicken degradation. Can’t recall his name, but he is leading the car, and doesn’t care, so he just admitted to it.
No one else will though. ..
 
Wow, so if you are still getting est of 310 at 100% close to 2 yrs.....thats basically no lost in capacity and pretty amazing? Curiously how many times have you charged to 100% and what is the lowest soc you have run the car down to?

So are you saying that you've been trying out new charging habits for about 4 weeks now of 90% down to 30% soc? And as a result you've now back to 310 est from about 290 previously?

During your weekly discharge from 90% to 30%, roughly what soc are you letting the car sleep during that cycle? Are you discharging at a consistent set percentage each day?

My car is just over a year old (M3P 2019 Aug) with only 3200miles. I started at an est 310.8miles @ 100%.
Now i'm down to an est of 298 @ 100%
Like you its takes me week or more to discharge from 90% down to a lower soc. So have only recently started this experiment.
During your experiment, i assume you have avoided any software updates? To keep the test results consistent?

Thanks
I never believed my battery REALLY degraded to ~290-295mi at 100%. Before COVID, my typical daily charging habit was charge to 80% and drive to 60% each day on weekdays. During weekends, it varied, sometimes driving less than 10 miles, other times driving almost 200, though usual weekends are probably in the 40-80 miles range. But I always charged to 80% unless I knew I was going to drive over 200 miles in one day, then I'd charge to 90%. Based on what I understand of battery chemistry, I truly believe that charging to less than 90% is better for the battery (ideally hovering around 50% as the "sweet spot" for the battery) but I also understand charging daily 90% will have a negligible negative impact over the life of the battery. The only time I make it an absolute point of charging to somewhere closer to 50% is when I don't plan on driving the car for weeks. My car is now at just over 20k miles on the odometer by the way.

Now to answer your questions:

Technically there is still a "loss in capacity" as my 100% charge is supposed to be 325mi (LR RWD). I've only charged to 100% once, and I think it really only got to 99%, that was before a ~1000mi road trip. During the trip, I charged to 90%. During this trip was also the time I ran the battery to its lowest ever, which was 17%. I did the most Supercharging in a short amount of time during this trip. Outside of this trip, I only Supercharged occasionally during my first year of free Supercharging and have not Supercharged since then.

The 90% - 30% charging habit experiment was done over a little less than 3 months, July to October. I charged on average every 2.5 weeks (I think I mistyped in a previous email when I said I charged every 1.5 weeks) due to driving so little during COVID. And yes, it seems I recovered from somewhere between 290-295 to 310mi. I actually did try this experiment earlier this year (Jan to Feb), but only drained the battery down to 50 - 60% before charging to 90. In that experiment I only recovered from 295mi to 305mi or so. But it "degraded" back down to 290-295 by July, and that's when I did the experiment again but first draining down to 30%.

During the time I was getting the SOC down to 30% before charging, I just let the car sleep at whatever SOC, and it definitely was not consistent every day as my driving habits are completely irregular due to COVID. There would be stretches of several days when I didn't drive at all and then there was one day where I drove over 100 miles.

During the experiment, I did do at least one software update, so it is plausible that that had something to do with it. However, between Sept 2019 (that when my predicted range suddenly dropped down to 295mi@100%) and now, there have been many software updates and after each update, I did not see any increase in predicted range. It was only in the morning after charging to 90% did I see any increase.
 
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And keeps hitting new lows ,☹️
I am sitting at 295miles now after only 10 month and 9k miles.

And I don't abuse the battery.

My 2018 LR Real wheel drive still was showing 325 miles after 18 month and 18k miles when I traded it in.

So, apparently not all batteries are created equal.
View attachment 597917
There is only 31 miles difference between your last two scans from SMT and 0.9 kWh change. Did you charge up after only 31 miles driven? I don't think you would lose 0.9 kWh after driving only 31 miles. Maybe your numbers just show a lot of random variability.
 
And keeps hitting new lows ,☹️
I am sitting at 295miles now after only 10 month and 9k miles.

And I don't abuse the battery.

My 2018 LR Real wheel drive still was showing 325 miles after 18 month and 18k miles when I traded it in.

So, apparently not all batteries are created equal.
View attachment 597917

295 miles on a 9000 mile car just means you had early degradation. Mine dropped to 293 miles when i had 17k km on the odometer and since then increased to 295 miles where it stayed. Everyone elses range kept dropping and I am almost starting to overtake the green graph again. So I would argue you got very lucky with your old LR RWD (they had dodgy range displays anyway) and now you are just average...

k4WGvX.jpg
 
View attachment 598306Looks like I’m dead last again...whoooo go me!

It’s too bad, there isn’t a way to see data from your car on how many times your battery has sat at 100%, or how often it was charged to 100%, how often you charged down close to 0%, how many 0-60 runs you’ve done, or what charge level you keep the battery at, things that abuse the battery.

If you had this data, it would sure help illustrate that your degradation is not self inflicted.
I know Tesla has this data. Does anyone know if there is a way to get this type data ?
The data that we know impacts the battery.
 
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