Model 3 Rebuilt Title - Supercharging Removal

[cucubits]

I'm still siding with Tesla on this. It's clear they don't want rebuilt cars around. Whether this is for liability reasons or others, it doesn't matter.

Let me ask it another way: why is buying totaled cars so appealing to some people? Yes, you buy it a little cheaper but there's a huge gamble with all the money you'd need to invest to get it running and you'd probably end up paying even more than one would have paid for a clean title car.

On the other hand, if one is doing this for "fun" or as a hobby... then just choose any other car. Why make your life miserable with a salvaged Tesla?

 

[mspohr]

I feel it’s environmentally irresponsible to blanket all rebuilt Tesla’s as “rogue” vehicles and cripple them. It would be in their better interest to take each case individually and assess the suitability of the rebuild under goodwill as a safety measure.

-If the vehicle passes the grade, offer conditional support (parts and servicing at the owner’s expense, pay as you go supercharging, paid premium connectivity, etc)

-If it does not, give an honest report and lay out a process to bring the vehicle into compliance for conditional support for a future inspection.

I think this is what they do with salvage Model S.
You can pay to have it inspected and certified.

 

[ElectricIAC]

I think this is what they do with salvage Model S.
You can pay to have it inspected and certified.

Not sure you can even do that anymore and previously it was an undisclosed if exorbitant and or arbitrary amount of money.

This should be covered at least once out of goodwill if consistency is truly the goal.

 

[Knightshade]

I think this is what they do with salvage Model S.
You can pay to have it inspected and certified.

Again- the recertification does not turn DC fast charging back on.

It just makes it so Tesla is willing to work on it in the future.


Here's the actual policy from the website:

• service agreements for the vehicle are void.
  NOTE: Repairs due to recalls will be performed unless the safe repair of the vehicle is prevented either by the condition of the vehicle or by vehicle modifications not installed by Tesla. If the Tesla Service Center determines that the vehicle is not safe to repair, the recall-related repair will not be performed until the customer has returned the vehicle to a condition that the Service Center determines is safe to repair.
• Supercharging is permanently disabled.
• Parts availability is not affected. Any Unrestricted or Over-the-Counter part may be purchased for a salvage-titled vehicle.
• A “Salvage-Titled Vehicle HV Safety Inspection” may be performed (at the customer’s expense) on the vehicle to determine if the HV-related components are safe to work on or access.

I'm still siding with Tesla on this. It's clear they don't want rebuilt cars around. Whether this is for liability reasons or others, it doesn't matter.

Let me ask it another way: why is buying totaled cars so appealing to some people? Yes, you buy it a little cheaper but there's a huge gamble with all the money you'd need to invest to get it running and you'd probably end up paying even more than one would have paid for a clean title car.

On the other hand, if one is doing this for "fun" or as a hobby... then just choose any other car. Why make your life miserable with a salvaged Tesla?

For the 3 I agree with you.

it's more understandable on the S, especially up until the major price cuts in the last year....where a new P100D was $140,000 but you could potentially buy a couple of salvaged Ses, make one good running one and part out the rest, and save $100,000.

 

[MP3Mike]

Not sure you can even do that anymore and previously it was an undisclosed if exorbitant and or arbitrary amount of money.

This should be covered at least once out of goodwill if consistency is truly the goal.

They have an official policy now. (As of almost 2 years ago.) The only thing you have to pay for is a HV inspection, ~$500, if you want them to work on/around the HV system. (They will work on the car without paying/passing that as long as it doesn't involve the HV system.) And you can order non-restricted parts without the HV inspection as well. (Same as with a clean title car.)

And they will do recall repairs free of charge, as long as they deem the vehicle is safe to perform them on.

 

[ElectricIAC]

I believe I was misunderstood. Set the flag to off until the vehicle comes in for a once-complimentary safety check. If it passes: turn it back on as paid SC.

A properly rebuilt Tesla is arguably safer than any fossil vehicle.

 

[Rocky_H]

No, that isn't how it works. The HV inspection only gets your car certified for Tesla to work on the HV system. (For example replacing a failed charger or charge port.) It does not get Supercharging or DC fast charging re-enabled. (Their policy specifically says that Supercharging is permanently disabled.)

Yup- which is why I mentioned in my earlier post "other than DC fast charging they do offer exactly that."

Ah, I did not realize that was still left out after an inspection and recertification. I thought that got it back up to full treatment as a normal vehicle. Thanks for pointing that out.

 

[Knightshade]

I believe I was misunderstood. Set the flag to off until the vehicle comes in for a once-complimentary safety check. If it passes: turn it back on as paid SC.

A properly rebuilt Tesla is arguably safer than any fossil vehicle.

The flag is set to off if it's a salvage vehicle (though sometimes it can take a while for Teslas systems to flag it as such).

That's Teslas published policy. (which I quoted in my last post and you somehow disagreed with...kinda baffling given I was just reposting verbatim from tesla.com)


There is no inspection that can get it turned back on.

(There's hackers who can- as long as you don't get caught- and you're on the hook for damages if something goes wrong and you connected to their chargers in violation of explict terms of service)

 

[ElectricIAC]

The flag is set to off if it's a salvage vehicle (though sometimes it can take a while for Teslas systems to flag it as such).

That's Teslas published policy. (which I quoted in my last post and you somehow disagreed with...kinda baffling given I was just reposting verbatim from tesla.com)


There is no inspection that can get it turned back on.

(There's hackers who can- as long as you don't get caught- and you're on the hook for damages if something goes wrong and you connected to their chargers in violation of explict terms of service)

I found part of your post informative and part of it I disagreed with.

One could argue that a rebuilt Tesla can never be as safe as a new one. I won’t refute that point sight unseen. But if the vehicle is inspected for proper repairs and is deemed safe to remain conditionally supported then DC fast charging should also be re-enabled.

This goes deeper than “guy buys salvage tesla because they’re a cheap-ass and gets bit in the ass for it”


If they can do that to salvage vehicles, what stops them from doing it to cars that are “too old”? I won’t even bring up batterygate on the 85/90 packs as this is a more moderated example.

 

[Knightshade]

I found part of your post informative and part of it I disagreed with.

One could argue that a rebuilt Tesla can never be as safe as a new one. I won’t refute that point sight unseen. But if the vehicle is inspected for proper repairs and is deemed safe to remain conditionally supported then DC fast charging should also be re-enabled.

So despite the fact I was literally just quoting written tesla policy- not offering ANY opinion on if it's good or bad, just quoting the written policy- you disagreed with the post because you... don't like Teslas policy?


I don't think that's what the disagree button is for....but you do you I guess.

This goes deeper than “guy buys salvage tesla because they’re a cheap-ass and gets bit in the ass for it”


If they can do that to salvage vehicles, what stops them from doing it to cars that are “too old”?

Salvage title is an entirely different animal, legally.

Same reason even if it's salvaged for something having nothing to do with, say, the stereo, they no longer have any warranty obligation to fix the stereo.

That's not even a Tesla thing- everybody disclaims supporting salvaged cars.


As to too-old, again- nobody supports all models forever. Some are better than others- but many legacy car companies you can't even get OEM parts for things they stopped building just 5-10 years previous.

 

[ElectricIAC]

Salvage title is an entirely different animal, legally.

Same reason even if it's salvaged for something having nothing to do with, say, the stereo, they no longer have any warranty obligation to fix the stereo.

That's not even a Tesla thing- everybody disclaims supporting salvaged cars.


As to too-old, again- nobody supports all models forever. Some are better than others- but many legacy car companies you can't even get OEM parts for things they stopped building just 5-10 years previous.

Fair point but then again other manufacturers don’t come in and yank features from a salvage car like limit your fuel tank to 5gal or decrease fuel intake rate to a crawl because you choose to rebuild a car.

As far as support for older cars: and this may get better down the road is that they often have an aftermarket to support them.

 

[user212_nr]

I'm still siding with Tesla on this. It's clear they don't want rebuilt cars around. Whether this is for liability reasons or others, it doesn't matter.

Let me ask it another way: why is buying totaled cars so appealing to some people? Yes, you buy it a little cheaper but there's a huge gamble with all the money you'd need to invest to get it running and you'd probably end up paying even more than one would have paid for a clean title car.

On the other hand, if one is doing this for "fun" or as a hobby... then just choose any other car. Why make your life miserable with a salvaged Tesla?

I agree.

What happens is that buying salvaged cars is a hobby/business that a lot of people have been engaging in for years now. They buy the Tesla and think that they can fix it, but they don't have the skills and can't deal with the software.

Also, "salvage" is just a designation that is given to a vehicle for FINANCIAL and LEGAL reasons and not expressly related to the condition of the car. So why blame Tesla for a designation that was given according to state laws by insurance adjusters?

If you have a flooded Tesla, and the car is worth $35k, but the cost to repair it would be $200k, then it is considered salvages.

If the car is worth 35k and needs repairs of $10k (new windows, new airbags, new tires, tuned suspension, body work) and can maybe sell for $25k at auction, then it is considered a "total loss" and becomes also a salvaged. This is especially an issue when the LABOR element of the repair is the most costly and the car is not so much damaged, there is a potential for someone with skills and free time to repair it, purchase the car for $15k.

Now take that same car ($35k with 10k damages), if the insurance company decides to REPAIR it rather than SELL/SALVAGE it, then Tesla will repair it and give supercharging. Exact same car.

Its just another loophole in our legal patchwork and not a conspiracy by Tesla.

 

[nayr14]

I believe Tesla should offer certification of the HV system which would allow for DC charging on cars that received a salvage title. Inspect the battery and HV connection points for damage, etc and certify the vehicle. Just like they would if they repaired the car instead of having the insurance company mark it as salvage. The main concern is the battery itself. There is a lot of logic in the car to detect safety issues already.

 

[Knightshade]

Fair point but then again other manufacturers don’t come in and yank features from a salvage car like limit your fuel tank to 5gal or decrease fuel intake rate to a crawl because you choose to rebuild a car.

FWIW the only way in which I think it's fair to characterize Tesla as doing that is by turning off third party DC fast charging.

The SC network is an external thing owned by Tesla- they can allow or block access however they want to any car.... if they don't wanna trust that Rich Rebuilt It Right to allow him to hook up to their chargers- they can and should be able to do that.


But I think if EVGo doesn't care who hooks what up, Tesla should stay out of that.

(then again, with nothing better than 50KW ChaDemo available in most cases I don't find 3rd party fast charging fast enough to really be worth a damn in most scenarios anyway)

 

[ElectricIAC]

FWIW the only way in which I think it's fair to characterize Tesla as doing that is by turning off third party DC fast charging.

The SC network is an external thing owned by Tesla- they can allow or block access however they want to any car.... if they don't wanna trust that Rich Rebuilt It Right to allow him to hook up to their chargers- they can and should be able to do that.


But I think if EVGo doesn't care who hooks what up, Tesla should stay out of that.

(then again, with nothing better than 50KW ChaDemo available in most cases I don't find 3rd party fast charging fast enough to really be worth a damn in most scenarios anyway)

As slow as certain 85/90 have been throttled to at this point even 50KW CHAdeMO would be better than nothing. I’d like to see Rich hack it to allow DCFC and somehow retrofit CCS onto his car since it’s unlikely Tesla will budge on their stance until market forces dictate it.

 

[Knightshade]

As slow as certain 85/90 have been throttled to at this point even 50KW CHAdeMO would be better than nothing. I’d like to see Rich hack it to allow DCFC and somehow retrofit CCS onto his car since it’s unlikely Tesla will budge on their stance until market forces dictate it.

Given Teslas current policy, as Rich has cited, allows Tesla to sue folks who hack DC charging back to on, it seems unlikely he'd do this and tell anyone

I don't see market forces ever dictating anything on this topic though.... the # of folks who are in the "build salvage teslas and demand supercharging" demographic is gonna always be a rounding error in the total customer base.... (indeed Rich mentions that very fact in his most recent video about this that I saw)

 

[ElectricIAC]

I don't see market forces ever dictating anything on this topic though.... the # of folks who are in the "build salvage teslas and demand supercharging" demographic is gonna always be a rounding error in the total customer base.... (indeed Rich mentions that very fact in his most recent video about this that I saw)

For now. Give it time.

Maybe not today, maybe not tomorrow. But eventually.

 

[Knightshade]

For now. Give it time.

Maybe not today, maybe not tomorrow. But eventually.

...yeah...no.

I can't think of any model of car... ever... where "Number of salvage vehicles put back into active service" was ever even slightly, remotely, vaguely significant. Especially not economically to the folks making new ones.

 

[ElectricIAC]

...yeah...no.

I can't think of any model of car... ever... where "Number of salvage vehicles put back into active service" was ever even slightly, remotely, vaguely significant. Especially not economically to the folks making new ones.

There’s a first for everything, a distinction Tesla is no stranger to.

We will just have to agree to disagree here but the message Tesla is sending with their harsh anti-rebuild stance is highly contradictory to sustainable and responsible use of resources and at the same time setting the precedent that you (the buyer/owner) do not truly own your car despite having paid for it. That’s the bigger picture.

 

[user212_nr]

One could argue that a rebuilt Tesla can never be as safe as a new one. I won’t refute that point sight unseen. But if the vehicle is inspected for proper repairs and is deemed safe to remain conditionally supported then DC fast charging should also be re-enabled.

The battery pack is a sealed unit and I doubt that it can really be inspected. It is so heavily sealed that it in winter it has moisture from any humidity in the air when it was built. Rich Rebuilds did a section on opening the battery module and it looks like it is not designed to be a 2-way process.

Even if you get the top cover off, the modules themselves are not designed to be opened, the cells likewise. A true battery inspection is impossible.

If the Tesla has flood or high impact damage, then it is very important that they do not get fast charging.