2021 Model 3 and differences from 2020

[hydro 481]

I mean that might be the case that they can get this increase without a heat pump - look at the various improvements made on the Long Range Plus. A lot of those seem like they could be transferred to Performance. But I don’t track it closely.

And how do we know the new Model S will not have a heat pump?

But I don’t want to dig into the details of what is going on with Performance Model S: Going back to the original message you responded to, I was commenting that it is very rare for the constants to change on Tesla vehicles (after they have shipped), even if the efficiency is increased. So for an existing vehicle, your rated range usually stays exactly the same, but your range increases. That is the typical scenario.

This standard approach by Tesla could of course change at any time. That’s why I was asking for more info from you. Specifically, it *sounded* like you were saying that 2020 vehicles were getting a 40-rated-mile range increase as displayed. Probably not what you were saying though. But this is just a simple case of a 2021 vehicle having a lot higher range, for various reasons, which is not unusual. And it will have a different constant, of course. 2020 vehicles will just keep their same old rated range. But their range may increase (depends).

My whole point of responding to you was to was to point out that the range increase may not be attributed to the heat pump since the new Model S does not have one. I guess it's possible the new Model S could be getting a heat pump but wouldn't we hear about it already? The Model 3 heat pump rumors started up months ago.

Tesla's website already reflects the range increase for the Model S so whatever improvements they made is currently in production.

 

[TimothyHW3]

Btw, if you don't believe me there are other people testing the efficiency of a heat pump.

Here at 5C

You can see that the difference was insignificant at highway speeds. They couldn't measure it even.

Here a Test at -5C with heat pump

Apparently 800W for the heat pump in minus 5C which is quite good.

I have done similar Test in my Model 3 and ended up wtih 1.3kW at 2C, let's say 1.5kW-1.7kW at -5C.

So to put that into perspective - let's say anywhere between 500W to 1kW difference in power consumption between no heat pump in warmer weather(5C) to no heat pump in a bit colder, what does that mean for the range.

Traveling at avg. 50mph you can expect around 2-4kWh more from the heat pump and at these speeds in winter you are looking at about 7-15miles on a full charge. Barely anything.

Traveling at slow speeds during congestion- 20mph then that range increase will obviously tripple roughly. But like I said above - you can fix that by heating smartly. Hopefully that sattles it for ppl who are thinking about getting a rebate.

 

[Raechris]

So looking at this in more detail range increases are as follows:

SR+: +5.20%
AWD LR: + 9.63%
AWD Performance: +5.35%

Every model is seeing minimum 5% improvement across the board, likely due to battery improvements that were mentioned earlier this year. It seems model Y is seeing similar improvements as well.

Something additional is happening with the AWD LR however. I suspect that it's probably the heat pump, but why only on the LR? I can understand that cost concerns may have prevented its inclusion in the SR+, but I can't understand why it would be left out of the Performance model. Or has something else been done to the P that negates the improvement from the heat pump? Shaving 0.1 sec off the 0-100km acceleration time is nice, but I hope that's not what cost a potential 4-5% extra range improvement.

I'm a bit torn here. I was set on ordering a M3P and live with the more fragile wheels and slightly reduced range to get the fastest 3 and track mode, but now that the range difference between the LR and the P has significantly widened, it's becoming harder to put down the extra $10,000 (Canadian $) for the P. The new range of the P would be enough for sure, but comparatively speaking, it doesn't look as good as it used to.

Maybe the heat pump can't keep up w track mode?

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

My whole point of responding to you was to was to point out that the range increase may not be attributed to the heat pump

Fair enough. Could totally be the case with Model S Performance if you look at the history.

Just hard to understand how we got here from my post:

Model 3 Refresh?!

But to summarize:
Model 3: I think we're looking at primarily heat pump and other efficiency improvements for these ranges, not the battery. I think 370 rated miles is possible with a 5% battery capacity increase, not just 353. Because 332*1.05*0.756/0.7032 = 375

Model Y: Increases look like they're due to small optimizations of the heat pump & maybe other small adjustments. They seem to be retroactive (I don't follow it closely)

Model S: I have no idea really, but it seems like they have a lot of optimizations they can roll in at any time from their work on Model S Long Range Plus.

looking at this in more detail range increases are as follows:

SR+: +5.20%
AWD LR: + 9.63%
AWD Performance: +5.35%

Keep in mind that the 2020 Performance AWD with 18" wheels did 332 rated miles EPA. It had efficiency so good compared to the AWD that it got 10 more rated miles while consuming 0.25kWh less energy during the cycle (79.5kWh vs 79.75kWh)! This information is in the public domain and well known. They just knocked 10 rated miles off for marketing reasons, not because they had an overly great battery on the test article (which is sometimes another reason for voluntary reduction AFAIK).

So if you use 332 rated miles as the starting point:

AWD LR: 353/332 = 1.063 - so 6.3%

So I assume that whatever was better about the Performance in 2020 as compared to the AWD (and there is only one key difference I am aware of, and we all know what I'm talking about ) could easily be just made uniform to both Performance and AWD in 2021. Why not? It's probably negligible cost.

And then everything would be in line with a 5-6% increase. (Yeah, the LR AWD still looks slightly better but it is just 1%.)

And note that 0.756 for Model Y (with heat pump, etc.) vs. 0.7032 for Model 3 (w/o heat pump etc.) for the EPA scalars is a 7.5% increase. So it's all kind of in the ballpark.

That's why I think 370 rated miles is no problem if they actually do unlock the 5% battery capacity increase at some point. The higher capacity batteries may already be in these 2021 vehicles, no idea, but it may be that they don't unlock that capacity for now. We'll know with certainty very very soon (a few weeks). Well...we'll know if they just put the new batteries in and unlocked them...we won't know if they put the new ones in but left the extra energy locked out.

Could be partially wrong though and it could be part heat pump, part battery capacity increase, to get to 353. It's not clear how high the scalar will get for Model 3 as it's quite a complicated formula to derive from 5-cycle results, and it may not get as high as it did for Model Y due to vagaries of the formula (which I'm not experienced with) - perhaps the formula turns out to reward more aerodynamic cars less when you improve the cold cycle performance, for example.

 

[SageBrush]

You can't just bring random things into the topic...
The air heat pump operates effectively within 0 to 10C. Below -5C the coefficient drops below 2:1 and below -10C it is virtually 1:1 and then it is basically a PTC. So if your winter is anything like that, a heat pump will only bring you noise. PTC heater will be actually better.

The heat pump is only one part of the heating efficiency package; the other is the octovalve which optimizes waste heat scavenging.

I really expect negative press from some owners who see little to no range improvement for their driving conditions and drive cycle. It will shine in long distance driving in cold weather and in mild to moderately cold climates.

As an aside, I'm disappointed that Tesla may not be including a heated steering wheel. That component does not improve EPA range but it sure has an outsized effect on cabin heating usage for a large fraction of car owners.

 

[SageBrush]

Traveling at avg. 50mph you can expect around 2-4kWh more from the heat pump and at these speeds in winter you are looking at about 7-15miles on a full charge. Barely anything.

I also estimated a 3 kW power savings on long trips but that is really impressive. At 100 - 120 kph it is a 25 - 30 Wh/km savings, a good 10% - 15% improvement in range.

 

[adamw13]

nix on heated steering wheel for now

 

[To3OrNotTo3]

Strange, if you zoom in on the configurator for the new aero 18” wheels it sure looks like the tire size is 225/35zr19.

View attachment 599994

I noticed a similar error, if not identical to the one you're observing when attempting to zoom in on the uberturbine wheels to figure out what type of P Zero tires they were.

 

[Speedy Chinook]

Here's the first video of the new center console. Looks pretty slick in action! Although those with big (physically) USB thumb drives might want to get something smaller as the ports have been moved.

First video of the new Tesla Model 3 center console in action - Drive Tesla Canada

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

I noticed a similar error, if not identical to the one you're observing when attempting to zoom in on the uberturbine wheels to figure out what type of P Zero tires they were.

They are just renders. Ignore it.

 

[UncertainTimes]

<begin sarcasm>
That exposed phone charger is gonna collect dust and lint so badly.
I prefer flipping mechanism to sliding.
I prefer piano black.
<end sarcasm>

 

[zerb012345]

Here's the first video of the new center console. Looks pretty slick in action! Although those with big (physically) USB thumb drives might want to get something smaller as the ports have been moved.

First video of the new Tesla Model 3 center console in action - Drive Tesla Canada

Now that I see it like that I REALLY think it looks much better than the old one but that USB placement is questionable. At least there's the new port in the glovebox for Sentry Mode etc.

 

[Hybrid_GHOST]

Ill take the oh wrapped . A lot sleeker IMO
Anyone know if the oem power lift gate will be available for retrofit? I know there are other options...’but still .. also I talked to the service center. As my car is there now about the black trim being avail for retrofit.. he speculated it could be awhile as all available pieces are going for production units atm

 

[hydro 481]

Fair enough. Could totally be the case with Model S Performance if you look at the history.

Just hard to understand how we got here from my post:

Model 3 Refresh?!

But to summarize:
Model 3: I think we're looking at primarily heat pump and other efficiency improvements for these ranges, not the battery. I think 370 rated miles is possible with a 5% battery capacity increase, not just 353. Because 332*1.05*0.756/0.7032 = 375

Model Y: Increases look like they're due to small optimizations of the heat pump & maybe other small adjustments. They seem to be retroactive (I don't follow it closely)

Model S: I have no idea really, but it seems like they have a lot of optimizations they can roll in at any time from their work on Model S Long Range Plus.

Perhaps you thought I was commenting on your entire post as a whole? I really meant to respond specifically to the part where you said "I suspect this is optimization of the heat pump and associated stuff, which has not yet been wrung dry". I probably should have edited the post instead of quoting the entire thing, but I was on my phone so I was too lazy to do it

Just to clarify...I'm not saying your theories are wrong. I'm just pointing to the fact that the Model S also got a significant range increase without the addition of a heat pump. Now is it possible that the range improvements to the Model S is due to other factors aside from the the heat pump? Sure it is. But the part that trips me up is the "efficiency package" that is supposedly implemented across the board to all vehicles in the lineup. That makes it seem like they are using the same methods to achieve the range increase on all the vehicles. TBH I might be reading too much into it. Maybe the heat pump is just part of the efficiency package for the Model 3 and not the S/X. That makes sense too. But then why would we see the most significant improvement to the Model S instead of the 3?

 

[MP3Mike]

Just to clarify...I'm not saying your theories are wrong. I'm just pointing to the fact that the Model S also got a significant range increase without the addition of a heat pump. Now is it possible that the range improvements to the Model S is due to other factors aside from the the heat pump? Sure it is. But the part that trips me up is the "efficiency package" that is supposedly implemented across the board to all vehicles in the lineup. That makes it seem like they are using the same methods to achieve the range increase on all the vehicles. TBH I might be reading too much into it. Maybe the heat pump is just part of the efficiency package for the Model 3 and not the S/X. That makes sense too. But then why would we see the most significant improvement to the Model S instead of the 3?

Maybe you are forgetting that the non-Performance LR Model S already went from 335 to 402, ~20%, without a heat pump. While the Performance Model S went from 315 to 348, ~10%, until now it has been updated to 387. (Which is ~23%.) And there has been no change to the Model S LR with the 2021 update, it has stayed at 402. Maybe it got the "efficiency package" early as a test run? (Or it is going to get another range increase soon.)

 

[Hippogrief]

I see on the Swiss Tesla site a bunch of Tesla Model 3 in transit, all cars in transit seem to be the refreshed model, except one Performance model that is still a 2020 model.
There seems to be almost no inventory in Europe at the moment...
Are there people in Europe with a car in transit and a VIN assigned that is still the '2020' model?
I haven't a VIN assigned at the moment.

 

[hydro 481]

Maybe you are forgetting that the non-Performance LR Model S already went from 335 to 402, ~20%, without a heat pump. While the Performance Model S went from 315 to 348, ~10%, until now it has been updated to 387. (Which is ~23%.) And there has been no change to the Model S LR with the 2021 update, it has stayed at 402. Maybe it got the "efficiency package" early as a test run? (Or it is going to get another range increase soon.)

That could be true as well. Hopefully we'll get some clarity on this situation soon. The fact that it's being pitched as a type of package leads me to believe it could *possibly* be an upgrade option for existing Tesla owners. Or it could be one of those options that's only available at the time your car is being built e.g. the 3rd row seating option on the Model X.

 

[nicklast1994]

I see on the Swiss Tesla site a bunch of Tesla Model 3 in transit, all cars in transit seem to be the refreshed model, except one Performance model that is still a 2020 model.
There seems to be almost no inventory in Europe at the moment...
Are there people in Europe with a car in transit and a VIN assigned that is still the '2020' model?
I haven't a VIN assigned at the moment.

There has been 2020 models arrived yesterday to France and that ship is now on its way to Belgium...
I still await an assigned VIN.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

I really meant to respond specifically to the part where you said this is optimization of the heat pump and associated stuff, which has not yet been wrung dry".

Yes, and by "this" I meant the information on the Model Y range increases. Which are quite different in character from the Model S Performance increase (which I was unaware of at that time so I definitely was not commenting on that).

Tesla pushes new software update increasing range of existing vehicles - Electrek

Bringing the Model S into the conversation just confused me, that's all. No question, Model S got a big range increase, but I'm agnostic about the reasons for it (I really have no idea and I pay little attention to Model S and exactly what each vehicle is equipped with - I've only spent any significant time perusing Model 3 and Model Y EPA documents and the associated scalars, which are often the factors that do most of the heavy lifting on range changes - though there are sometimes underlying efficiency improvements on the two-cycle tests as well (see Model 3 AWD 2020 18" vs. Model 3 Performance 2020 18", as a random example - VERY different efficiency, with Model 3 Performance having more range due to better efficiency) ).

We will see pretty soon, in any case. The EPA docs, EPA datafile, and the CARB documents, and fueleconomy.gov numbers will make it all pretty clear what happened.

 

[hydro 481]

(see Model 3 AWD 2020 18" vs. Model 3 Performance 2020 18", as a random example - VERY different efficiency, with Model 3 Performance having more range due to better efficiency) ).

Wait, how is the Performance Model 3 more efficient than the LR Model 3? I always thought it was the opposite.