Model 3 Res Holder Tests Drives First Electric Car...

[SageBrush]

I am very fortunate to live 8 hours away from a test drive.

 

[ummgood]

My only experience with ventilated seats were in newer (2014-2015 I guess) Lexus ES350 and 2015 Porsche Cayman. Porsche ones were nice, but wasn't that impressed with the Lexus ones. It was much hotter outside temperature with the Lexus though, so maybe that had something to do with it. Even if they are not that effective, I told myself my next car will have them. Sure hope it is option on the 3.

Out of curiosity, was the women you talked to from Fremont named Amber?

I remember his that they were kind of a let down. You could feel them after riding for 10 minutes or so. Except for my commute in traffic most of my driving is to the store and back which is always less than 10 minutes. The S seats were definitely better than the Lexus seats. I haven't tried a Porsche but the VP of my company has a Macan. I'll see if I can ask him to show it to me if I bump into him.

I went on a test drive at the end of August with my friend who was considering the 2-year-lease. When the drive ended, the Tesla rep walked us back to the office, which was beginning to close, gave his business card to my friend, and said to contact him if we had any questions. That was it. My friend couldn't believe it. Of course, before we went on the test drive I had told my friend about Tesla finishing last at being "salesy" and that their sales team was referred to more like museum curators, which was *exactly* what we experienced.

My friend ordered an S60 2-year-lease a few days later and says it's the best car he's ever had.

The car has exceeded his expectations, and he's the only one at his firm with a Tesla, amongst Mercedes and BMWs. Everyone in his office is trying to figure out "who has the Tesla".

That is awesome! I really did love the car. I can't get myself to lease a car. I know it works for some but it seems like a waste to me. Almost all of my cars I have been able to drive them several years paid off and I love that feeling (I am on 6 years on my truck being paid off). I couldn't trade it in and start all over. The problem with my mentality is Tesla is more like modern electronics where your car gets out of date pretty fast where my Toyota truck looked mostly the same as all the others except for just this year when they released a new one. Yeah I don't have built in bluetooth but I fixed that with a Garmin gadget.

We have several Teslas here. At least 3 or 4 model S and the CEO has a X P90DL. We also have charging stations for free at work so that is causing the amount of electrics at work to go up. There are also a few leafs, a couple volts, and a few i3's that are plugged in.

I am very fortunate to live 8 hours away from a test drive.

haha yes if you are easily swayed by pretty shiny things I was happy to have the opportunity it really changed my thinking. Before I would consider still getting an ICE but now I definitely want a Tesla. Even if that means changing what I am expecting as far as options.

 

[eisbock]

My only experience with ventilated seats were in newer (2014-2015 I guess) Lexus ES350 and 2015 Porsche Cayman. Porsche ones were nice, but wasn't that impressed with the Lexus ones. It was much hotter outside temperature with the Lexus though, so maybe that had something to do with it. Even if they are not that effective, I told myself my next car will have them. Sure hope it is option on the 3.

Out of curiosity, was the women you talked to from Fremont named Amber?

Man, a lot of people seem to think the Model 3 will have all the latest and greatest features as options. Model S just got ventilated seats, and only for the top of the line model. You can't even get it on the lesser configurations of the same car. It also took them 4 years to do it.

And now you're expecting it to be an option on the budget car they're rolling out in a couple years? I think people are going to be sorely disappointed in the gimmicky features available on the 3.

 

[ModelNforNerd]

Man, a lot of people seem to think the Model 3 will have all the latest and greatest features as options. Model S just got ventilated seats, and only for the top of the line model. You can't even get it on the lesser configurations of the same car. It also took them 4 years to do it.

And now you're expecting it to be an option on the budget car they're rolling out in a couple years? I think people are going to be sorely disappointed in the gimmicky features available on the 3.

I honestly think you may need to decouple your thoughts of what the $35,000 Model 3 will be from the higher-end realities.

If the margins Tesla makes on ventilated seats as an option are favorable, and help them close ground on any potential shortfall from base model vehicles, ventilated seats will be in higher-end Model 3's.

Tesla's game is about getting people to buy high margin cars in volume now.

Exhibit A: the demise of the Model X 60.

 

[eisbock]

I honestly think you may need to decouple your thoughts of what the $35,000 Model 3 will be from the higher-end realities.

If the margins Tesla makes on ventilated seats as an option are favorable, and help them close ground on any potential shortfall from base model vehicles, ventilated seats will be in higher-end Model 3's.

Tesla's game is about getting people to buy high margin cars in volume now.

Exhibit A: the demise of the Model X 60.

This is true, but there will always be features that separate the 3 from the S, just like every other car company on the planet. Plain and simple, you will not be able to configure your 3 like an S, just with $40k slashed off the base price. Anybody who thinks this is delusional.

Musk has said that the S will always be the leader in terms of technology and there has to be some reason to entice people to buy an S over a 3. "It's a bigger car" can't be the only reason, and it won't be.

In the end, it's all an optimization problem: how luxurious can you make the 3 without cutting into S sales? Tesla will do what makes them the most money despite all the ramblings of people that think Tesla is some new age company who doesn't care about money. The S makes Tesla a boatload of money, and they want to continue to sell that.

 

[jelloslug]

If you want to know what will come standard on the Model 3 just look at a base model BMW 320i.

 

[Red Sage]

This is true, but there will always be features that separate the 3 from the S, just like every other car company on the planet. Plain and simple, you will not be able to configure your 3 like an S, just with $40k slashed off the base price. Anybody who thinks this is delusional.

Musk has said that the S will always be the leader in terms of technology and there has to be some reason to entice people to buy an S over a 3. "It's a bigger car" can't be the only reason, and it won't be.

In the end, it's all an optimization problem: how luxurious can you make the 3 without cutting into S sales? Tesla will do what makes them the most money despite all the ramblings of people that think Tesla is some new age company who doesn't care about money. The S makes Tesla a boatload of money, and they want to continue to sell that.

Hmmm... The enticement to purchase a Model S is that it is NOT a Panamera, Quattroporte, LS, A8 L, Q70, RLX, Genesis, 7-Series, S-Class, or any other flagship vehicle from traditional automobile manufacturers. The appearance of the Model ☰ will not prevent the Model S from continuing to kick all of their butts. Tesla is on track to have sold in the neighborhood of 11 years worth of Model S within only 4-1/2 years for a car with an eight year product cycle. They are not in the slightest bit concerned about internal cannibalization of sales from the car the company was founded to create. There. Made it through this post without insulting you. Yay!

 

[SageBrush]

This is true, but there will always be features that separate the 3 from the S, just like every other car company on the planet. Plain and simple, you will not be able to configure your 3 like an S, just with $40k slashed off the base price. Anybody who thinks this is delusional.

I presume that the M3 will have lower production costs from scale, size, and range, and those savings will pass to the consumer. I agree that the difference, all else being equal, will be far less than $40k.

Beyond that though, I'm not so sure that your presumption of step-up in quality and features will differentiate the two cars. In fact, I think it unlikely because EM and Tesla do not seem to think that way. As examples, EM wants *all* his cars to be the safest they can be, and he wants all his cars to have AP 2.0 and beyond.

The new Google phones Pixel and Pixel XL strike me as the Tesla model, not Chevy and Buick.

 

[Zaphod]

Man, a lot of people seem to think the Model 3 will have all the latest and greatest features as options. Model S just got ventilated seats, and only for the top of the line model. You can't even get it on the lesser configurations of the same car. It also took them 4 years to do it.

And now you're expecting it to be an option on the budget car they're rolling out in a couple years? I think people are going to be sorely disappointed in the gimmicky features available on the 3.

I don't agree with what you say and think you have no concept on how engineering and product development work. I don't think basing what has evolved with the S has any bearing on how the 3 will evolve. I am quite sure the ventilated seats will trickle down into the other S models. I assume they are supply constrained for now and targeting them in the high margin cars. All versions of the X has them available now so why not the S or 3? Give it time.

I never said I wanted them standard. I fully expect and see no reason for them to not be an option on a top level 3. Keep in mind, by "budget" car, we are talking about $35K starting price, not a Corolla or some other econobox. To me that is budget car.

 

[ModelNforNerd]

Musk has said that the S will always be the leader in terms of technology and there has to be some reason to entice people to buy an S over a 3. "It's a bigger car" can't be the only reason, and it won't be.

While that may be true, I see it happening much how Audi just pulled off with their lineup.

The A3 got the newest version of the MMI, because it was the new platform.

The following year, the other cars in the lineup got the new MMI during their regular refresh, but also got the new "virtual cockpit" NVidia dash display, which the A3 will be receiving next year, as part of it's mid-cycle refresh.

Why am I so convinced that this is totally plausible? Peter Hochholdinger, Tesla's new VP of Vehicle Production, just came over to Tesla after 20 years at....Audi.

He's probably learned a few things and brought them over with him.


Edit for clarity, and to finish off my thought:

Tesla does things differently, so when Elon says that the Model S and X will be the tech leaders, I think many are misunderstanding its meaning for the 3.

I interpret it as "if you buy a Model 3, S or X on the same day, the S and X will have the latest and greatest".

However, I don't necessarily think that means they will hold back tech from the 3. It will just get new gadgets later. And yes, I fully expect 3 owners will be paying for those gadgets.

 

[Sharkbait]

My test drive was in a P90D, very nice. I didn't hesitate to buy the S75 when the inventory sale occurred last month. It's a very nice car as any MS owner can appreciate.

 

[WannabeOwner]

Great writeup, thoroughly enjoyed it, thanks

The lack of engine noise when putting in drive, no creep

Creep can be turned on in the Settings. Not sure if it remembers it in your driver's profile though ... might be handy to turn it on, at least for the first few journeys, to ease the transition.

When driving the regen was a bit to get used to

There is a low-regen mode (in the Settings). I think for someone coming from an automatic that is probably the better starting place; whereas the higher Regen setting is probably a good starting point for anyone coming from a stick shift as it is somewhat stronger than engine braking, but not hugely so. Personally I think the Regen should be on the first part of the Brake pedal travel, so there is no difference in driving compared to ICE (I'm very happy with one-pedal driving, and have become good at judging when to lift off in order to maximise Regen when approaching, say, a junction, however I think that that the edge-conditions would be easier for folk unfamiliar with one-pedal driving, or switching between cars, and would make my driving style more "fluid". (Edge conditions, for me, include: when 100% charged no regen available at all, which can come as a surprise at the first junction! No regen deceleration for the last bit - below 8 MPH I think; brake lights coming on, often momentarily, as one juggles the amount of regen [guy behind must think I'm a twit or, worse, be confused and do something unsafe]; issues when hitting black ice / snow, lifting off and getting full regen suddenly; and probably others I don't know

I do think the self presenting handles are a bit gimmicy

I think its one more thing to go wrong! but OTOH I expect it does help with aerodynamics and fuel economy

I could imagine my kids though having to constantly get them to present when I am taking my time getting to the car when they are running.

Yup, but it will become second nature to them (but it won't, of course, for anyone who is not familiar with the car, you'll be in charge of Education for all newbies ....)

I was impressed by how big the opening is on the sunroof when it is fully opened

Can't say we have every actually driven with the sunroof open ... it provides a bit more headroom though (and, in the case of the Model S, allows for roof-rack fittings, not available with the normal roof)

Unlike most sales guys he didn't try to do too much to get me into the car.

I think they have the right balance. My salesguy asked about my plans, and was quite pushy - but only about knowing what my plans and dates were, presumably for a follow-up at that time, rather than trying to make the sale that day. Certainly nothing like the hard-sell I have had at every motor car dealership I have ever visited in the past!) There were a lot of incentives when you took your test drive, which are coming to an end, so i think reasonable that they gave you the option of considering a purchase (even if that had not been your plan). Also, sales staff were under a massive push for that quarter - so you may have got more of a hard sell than "normal" for that reason.

when you get the 3rd row seat option in a Model S it is a factory installed requirement because they beef up the rear bumper and hatch to protect better against a rear end collision

Yes,definitely available as a retro fit, but they also add the strengthening to the rear at the same time, so its not a simple bolt-in-and-go. Some people have complained about the (lack of) air at the back, others have taken their kids on N,000 mile trips with no complaints.

I am guessing I'll be about number 25-30k in line. Hopefully that gets me something on the Model 3.

My best guess is that if you order a higher spec model (and don't live in a right-hand-drive country, like me!) you'll get yours sooner. Buy the base model and you'll wait longer.

The other thing is I have a 3 car garage but they are all single sized doors. We have to fold in the left mirror on the van to get it in.

Using "Summon" will cause the car to drive itself into the garage (including opening / closing a Home Link door), so that should solve any alignment issues which might biff a wing mirror

I think it would be nice though to have a combination of the ventilation and the ability to cool the cabin before you get to the car to help with the Texas sun.

Just in case you were not aware: you can turn ont he climate control from your phone, so you can do that towards the end of your meal in a restaurant, or whatever. In the recent Version 8.0 update there is a max temperature for the car, and that will be configurable in 8.1. I have the local supermarket carpark "geo fenced" and that keeps my AC on for 30 minutes whenever I park there (that's using a 3rd party APP)

The problem with my mentality is Tesla is more like modern electronics where your car gets out of date pretty fast

Yes, definitely an issue. I am expecting to keep ours for many years, and in that event depreciation will be a non issue ... but ... the pace of change of technology may persuade me to cut-and-run to get the new toys, In particular, in my case, the moment that Fully Antonymous (or something close to that) becomes available.

 

[eisbock]

you have no concept on how engineering and product development work

lol and you have no concept how business and marketing works

 

[eisbock]

Hmmm... The enticement to purchase a Model S is that it is NOT a Panamera, Quattroporte, LS, A8 L, Q70, RLX, Genesis, 7-Series, S-Class, or any other flagship vehicle from traditional automobile manufacturers. The appearance of the Model ☰ will not prevent the Model S from continuing to kick all of their butts. Tesla is on track to have sold in the neighborhood of 11 years worth of Model S within only 4-1/2 years for a car with an eight year product cycle. They are not in the slightest bit concerned about internal cannibalization of sales from the car the company was founded to create. There. Made it through this post without insulting you. Yay!

To be fair, the only reason they've sold so many cars in such a short amount of time is because their cars weren't previously available. They're the new and exciting thing on the block and as such reap the benefits of all that buzz. 50 years down the road when all the hype has sufficiently worn off, they'll be selling cars at the same rate as everybody else.

Also, two spaces after a period is wrong.

 

[jelloslug]

Also, two spaces after a period is wrong.

Nope, it's just outdated.

 

[eisbock]

While that may be true, I see it happening much how Audi just pulled off with their lineup.

The A3 got the newest version of the MMI, because it was the new platform.

The following year, the other cars in the lineup got the new MMI during their regular refresh, but also got the new "virtual cockpit" NVidia dash display, which the A3 will be receiving next year, as part of it's mid-cycle refresh.

Why am I so convinced that this is totally plausible? Peter Hochholdinger, Tesla's new VP of Vehicle Production, just came over to Tesla after 20 years at....Audi.

He's probably learned a few things and brought them over with him.


Edit for clarity, and to finish off my thought:

Tesla does things differently, so when Elon says that the Model S and X will be the tech leaders, I think many are misunderstanding its meaning for the 3.

I interpret it as "if you buy a Model 3, S or X on the same day, the S and X will have the latest and greatest".

However, I don't necessarily think that means they will hold back tech from the 3. It will just get new gadgets later. And yes, I fully expect 3 owners will be paying for those gadgets.

Tesla has to tread very lightly for now because they are so new. One wrong step could land them in bankruptcy faster than you can say "TESLA SOLARCITY MERGER"

Audi has the luxury of being able to play around with new tactics because they can afford to experiment. Tesla has to make money first and foremost and can't play around too much with the tried and true methods of making money. Just because "Tesla does things differently" doesn't mean they're doing it the best way. It might prove to be the best way in due time, but nobody knows that and it's too much of a risk for such a young and volatile company. Tesla has to make money at some point, and can't be diddling around with experiments when it's time to put on your big boy pants and turn a profit.

I think a lot of the people on this forum are overly optimistic (and a little bit delusional). That's not a bad thing, but you're only setting yourself up for disappointment when you can't buy a Model S with a $40k discount.

 

[ModelNforNerd]

Tesla has to tread very lightly for now because they are so new. One wrong step could land them in bankruptcy faster than you can say "TESLA SOLARCITY MERGER"

Audi has the luxury of being able to play around with new tactics because they can afford to experiment. Tesla has to make money first and foremost and can't play around too much with the tried and true methods of making money. Just because "Tesla does things differently" doesn't mean they're doing it the best way. It might prove to be the best way in due time, but nobody knows that and it's too much of a risk for such a young and volatile company. Tesla has to make money at some point, and can't be diddling around with experiments when it's time to put on your big boy pants and turn a profit.

I think a lot of the people on this forum are overly optimistic (and a little bit delusional). That's not a bad thing, but you're only setting yourself up for disappointment when you can't buy a Model S with a $40k discount.

If I wanted a Model S at $40K discount, I'd be scouring the pre-owned market for one.

I put my money down for a Model 3, specifically, because that's the vehicle I want.

I'm expecting it to be different than a Model S, and Tesla has even helped me make that distinction, by naming it differently.

I'm looking at this from a perspective owner's standpoint, although I also own some TSLA stock. Luckily for me, your analysis of what they should and shouldn't be doing has no bearing on the stock price.

You seem a little on the down side. I'm sorry it's Monday, but it's Monday for all of us.

Cheer up a little.

 

[tashtibet]

Oh and one other thing that was mentioned is when you get the 3rd row seat option in a Model S it is a factory installed requirement because they beef up the rear bumper and hatch to protect better against a rear end collision. This was from the sales guy but I am not sure if it is truth or not.

it's true there's a youtube video Elon explains when you order the rear facing seats they'll put extra protection-one need to put that during order configuration and cost more, too.

 

[eisbock]

If I wanted a Model S at $40K discount, I'd be scouring the pre-owned market for one.

I put my money down for a Model 3, specifically, because that's the vehicle I want.

I'm expecting it to be different than a Model S, and Tesla has even helped me make that distinction, by naming it differently.

I'm looking at this from a perspective owner's standpoint, although I also own some TSLA stock. Luckily for me, your analysis of what they should and shouldn't be doing has no bearing on the stock price.

You seem a little on the down side. I'm sorry it's Monday, but it's Monday for all of us.

Cheer up a little.

I'm just trying to be realistic. Oftentimes that means pessimism, especially on a fan forum like this. The fortunate side to pessimism is that you're never disappointed.

 

[ModelNforNerd]

I'm just trying to be realistic. Oftentimes that means pessimism, especially on a fan forum like this. The fortunate side to pessimism is that you're never disappointed.

But it tends to make you make assumptions about other people...and you know what they say...