Model 3 reservations ($1000 down) will be accepted in Tesla stores....

[etm33]

Yeah, it's called tax evasion and stock manipulation. Criminal offenses if found guilty. And if not found guilty, it's really bad press for Tesla and Tesla owners.
If you don't believe me, let's see if Tesla actually does that. It would be foolish and illegal for them to even try.

Just playing Devil's Advocate a little here, but how would it be tax evasion? Tesla is not avoiding taxes (or getting any credits - those go to the purchasers), so I don't think there'd be any way this could be considered tax evasion. Tesla would pay any and all taxes at the corporate level at the appropriate, legal times.

Stock manipulation? I'd think that's dicey too; companies do things all the time to take advantage of expiring credits, regulatory changes, etc. Usually they affect the stock price but I don't think that's truly manipulation; though it may be.

All that said, I don't think Tesla will do it either, from a PR and Wall Street quarterly report standpoint I think it's a bad idea.

 

[brianman]

However I would still take the "over" bet on the line you set of 20 people max on line at any store waiting to make a deposit. (I know you didn't really set a line. So I guess I'm saying I think you'll be surprised.)

Request for those attending such lines: Please take pictures and post them in early April.

 

[HankLloydRight]

Just playing Devil's Advocate a little here, but how would it be tax evasion? Tesla is not avoiding taxes (or getting any credits - those go to the purchasers), so I don't think there'd be any way this could be considered tax evasion. Tesla would pay any and all taxes at the corporate level at the appropriate, legal times.

I was using "evasion" as a general concept. If Tesla manipulates their production or sales and hence the tax credit criteria so that thousands additional buyers can take the credit, I think that might raise some eyebrows at the IRS, and the could, at a minimum, deny the tax credit to those buyers. I just know the tax man hates not getting the taxes due to him, and will take legal actions (a tax court hearing or ruling) in order to get those taxes. I could see the IRS taking Tesla to tax court if they try to pull a stunt like that, even though Tesla itself is not liable for the additional tax.

- - - Updated - - -

Request for those attending such lines: Please take pictures and post them in early April.

Please do! The more wrong I am, the better for Tesla. And as a shareholder, I'm good with that. So it's kinda a "win-win" for me.

 

[brianman]

@Hank
Honest question: Where do you draw the line?

Suppose Tesla reaches 199,900 U.S. deliveries (100 "buffer") and completely stops delivering vehicles for a week. Further suppose they stop producing vehicles for two weeks. During this time they retool the factory (and maybe add new factories) such that they have 20x the production rate they had before they delivered vehicle 199,900. Let's also suppose they have a supplier issue and can't "finish" car 199,901 (or any other) for a month. Is this legitimate (and legal) behavior or not?

 

[1208]

So who on here is going to be waiting in a tent by the doors of a store so they can be first and how many days before will you be sleeping in it?

 

[HankLloydRight]

@Hank
Honest question: Where do you draw the line?

Suppose Tesla reaches 199,900 U.S. deliveries (100 "buffer") and completely stops delivering vehicles for a week. Further suppose they stop producing vehicles for two weeks. During this time they retool the factory (and maybe add new factories) such that they have 20x the production rate they had before they delivered vehicle 199,900. Let's also suppose they have a supplier issue and can't "finish" car 199,901 (or any other) for a month. Is this legitimate (and legal) behavior or not?

I really can't be judge and jury -- who knows what the specific facts will be.. we could play the hypothetical game for an infinite number of possibilities. What this gets back to is the OP saying that Tesla specifically and intentionally manipulates production to extend the tax credit another quarter. And I said if they do do that, the IRS will not take it sitting down if they are losing all that tax revenue.

 

[EcoHeliGuy]

I'm expecting reservation numbers that become international headliners and plastered all over the evening news while the competition executives are sitting at the dinner table. And I expect that's Tesla's whole plan

 

[nwdiver]

I'm expecting reservation numbers that become international headliners and plastered all over the evening news while the competition executives are sitting at the dinner table. And I expect that's Tesla's whole plan

YES!!

 

[Model 3]

I'm expecting reservation numbers that become international headliners and plastered all over the evening news while the competition executives are sitting at the dinner table. And I expect that's Tesla's whole plan

I'm just afraid that the news do not reach the headline before the next morning (and what that implies is up to the reader to find out ).

 

[Scott Wilcox]

I live in the state of Missouri or as you may say misery. I know if I go to the store on the 31st and put a deposit down at 10 am when the store opens I will still get the M3 after people in California. I know I will most likely miss the federal tax credit because of where I live. I really don't care. I want to be part of the M3 revolution are what ever you want to call it. If I option out the M3 to $42,000 and get no credits (Missouri has no credits) I still think it will be better than any car I could get for $42,000. Don't get me wrong I would love the money but I think Tesla has the chance to be the best car available with no tax credits.

Instead of flying to the East coast to get an earlier reservation I would love to fly to the West coast or where ever and wait in a line with fellow EV enthusiast. So I will be there at my the Tesla store at 10am on the 31st. I might be the only one at my store but it will still be exciting.

 

[S3XY]

I really can't be judge and jury -- who knows what the specific facts will be.. we could play the hypothetical game for an infinite number of possibilities. What this gets back to is the OP saying that Tesla specifically and intentionally manipulates production to extend the tax credit another quarter. And I said if they do do that, the IRS will not take it sitting down if they are losing all that tax revenue.

Currently there are many large corporations who shift their headquarters or profits offshore to avoid paying taxes in the US without the IRS even blinking an eye. I highly doubt they would go after Tesla for manipulating production so that additional consumers can get tax credits. And why wouldn't Tesla do just that if they can potentially add tens of thousands of buyers (sales) by making the car more affordable for another 3 months?

 

[doubleatheman]

I am super stoked (First post here) I have the day off work, so I will be at my local (Rocklin CA) dealer, waiting in line to put down $1000 for a Model 3!!

I am on the hype train 100% Sight unseen, I am ready to buy a model 3! I trust tesla in making a good looking capable car for $35k. I love seeing all the model S's going down the road on my commute down 80 on my way to work every day, cant wait to join them (albit in a cheaper car)

By the time the Model 3 is out, my trusty Honda Civic Hybrid will be 10 years old, time to retire that and move on.

 

[tga]

I will still get the M3 after people in California.

Why do you think this? If it's just shipping time, that's pretty much irrelevant.

 

[BOOMER7]

I think you'll see some long lines at certain stores on the 31 st.

 

[EcoHeliGuy]

Why do you think this? If it's just shipping time, that's pretty much irrelevant.

Tesla builds cars based on delivery targets. Building and filling trucks headed to high purchasing locations before building a car for a smaller market. It helps keeping the cars flowing out to customers. This has been done for both the Model S and Model X.

Example they won't put a Car on the truck for Vancouver, Miami, Boston, San Diego, ect. Nor do they have the space to store them. Instead they will build a truck load of cars for Vancouver all at the same time and fill a truck to go there.

 

[ItsNotAboutTheMoney]

I was using "evasion" as a general concept. If Tesla manipulates their production or sales and hence the tax credit criteria so that thousands additional buyers can take the credit, I think that might raise some eyebrows at the IRS, and the could, at a minimum, deny the tax credit to those buyers. I just know the tax man hates not getting the taxes due to him, and will take legal actions (a tax court hearing or ruling) in order to get those taxes. I could see the IRS taking Tesla to tax court if they try to pull a stunt like that, even though Tesla itself is not liable for the additional tax.

Simple laws have simple loopholes. It's not the IRS' job to fix the loopholes.

- - - Updated - - -

I live in the state of Missouri or as you may say misery. I know if I go to the store on the 31st and put a deposit down at 10 am when the store opens I will still get the M3 after people in California. I know I will most likely miss the federal tax credit because of where I live. I really don't care. I want to be part of the M3 revolution are what ever you want to call it. If I option out the M3 to $42,000 and get no credits (Missouri has no credits) I still think it will be better than any car I could get for $42,000. Don't get me wrong I would love the money but I think Tesla has the chance to be the best car available with no tax credits.

Instead of flying to the East coast to get an earlier reservation I would love to fly to the West coast or where ever and wait in a line with fellow EV enthusiast. So I will be there at my the Tesla store at 10am on the 31st. I might be the only one at my store but it will still be exciting.

Remember that there's a bill in CA to allow people from out-of-state to take factory delivery from CA car manufacturers without paying sales tax, so it might be that by then you'd be able to take factory delivery to get an earlier one.

 

[jtpassat]

aww crap... so us New England folks will have to wait longer!

Tesla builds cars based on delivery targets. Building and filling trucks headed to high purchasing locations before building a car for a smaller market. It helps keeping the cars flowing out to customers. This has been done for both the Model S and Model X.

Example they won't put a Car on the truck for Vancouver, Miami, Boston, San Diego, ect. Nor do they have the space to store them. Instead they will build a truck load of cars for Vancouver all at the same time and fill a truck to go there.

 

[tga]

Tesla builds cars based on delivery targets. Building and filling trucks headed to high purchasing locations before building a car for a smaller market. It helps keeping the cars flowing out to customers. This has been done for both the Model S and Model X.

Example they won't put a Car on the truck for Vancouver, Miami, Boston, San Diego, ect. Nor do they have the space to store them. Instead they will build a truck load of cars for Vancouver all at the same time and fill a truck to go there.

So? A car hauler holds 12 cars. You don't think there will be 12 cars to each of Vancouver, Miami, Boston, San Diego? They build 12 cars headed to the same place, and load them on a truck. They don't care where the truck is going, at least not until the end of the quarter (when saving a couple of days in transit may mean more deliveries on the books).

aww crap... so us New England folks will have to wait longer!

Doubtful...

 

[EcoHeliGuy]

So? A car hauler holds 12 cars. You don't think there will be 12 cars to each of Vancouver, Miami, Boston, San Diego? They build 12 cars headed to the same place, and load them on a truck. They don't care where the truck is going, at least not until the end of the quarter (when saving a couple of days in transit may mean more deliveries on the books).


Doubtful...

That's exactly what i stated.

 

[ModelNforNerd]

So? A car hauler holds 12 cars. You don't think there will be 12 cars to each of Vancouver, Miami, Boston, San Diego? They build 12 cars headed to the same place, and load them on a truck. They don't care where the truck is going, at least not until the end of the quarter (when saving a couple of days in transit may mean more deliveries on the books).


Doubtful...

Judging by the "chatter", New England, at least southern NE, will be a high volume area. If you order a "well spec'd" Model 3 and you're in the Boston area, you won't be waiting too long.

And honestly, if it came down to "get the car delivered to my house" and get it later, or "drive the ~hour or so to the Dedham store" and get it a month or 2 earlier, I'm driving to Dedham and making a whole day out of it.