ElectricTundra
P85D AP1
How much of this is people moving from sedan to SUV (or similar) and how much is people moving to BEV's (or wait & see)?
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Brando
Active Member
Brando
Active Member
NOTE: When the Prius was introduced which car model lost the most sales? It was the Lexus!
In Silicon Valley, for example, many had their commuter car (Lexus) and their week end sports car (Porsche).
Traded in Lexus for Prius. After all they spent more money on coffees than petrol, but for various reasons they wanted to do the green thing or get away from oil. This information was one of the reasons for Tesla secret strategy. They knew the buyers had money to spend and it wasn't about saving on fuel. Best car gets the best price. Hence Roadster and Model S/X.
Now that you mention that I remember other cases, very old ones. The Studebaker Avanti of 1960's did that. Wealthy people who would not be caught in a stodgy Studebaker bought Avanti, too late for them as a carmaker. Then the Ford Mustang did for many. The Mustang was like the Prius in that it was cheap enough for rich people to buy on a whim but cheap enough for the masses too.
Tesla has occupied an almost inaccessible niche, but with Model 3 they'll certainly have early Prius demographics. I think Model 3 will, like the BMW 3 series, hold on to unusually diverse demographics.
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Yeah, my parents are in that weird (to us) niche you guys are talking about. Except they currently don't have a "luxury" car. I guess the M3 is sort of replacing it? Their last luxury car was a MB E-class, which they bought on a whim like they do for pretty much all their cars.
They're in that giant group of people who just aren't into cars and don't do a ton of research. If a car has that one or two features important to them, they'll buy it and not bother comparing it to other cars. Basically, the "traditional" car buyer for dealerships who don't walk in knowing more than the sales guy.
Anyways, these sales charts aren't going to capture people like them because they're not "in" the market, but can jump in at any time. They don't fit any neat little demographic because like the wealthy Prius drivers, they can afford and will buy a car from $20,000 to $100,000. It's just way too broad a range.
They're in that giant group of people who just aren't into cars and don't do a ton of research. If a car has that one or two features important to them, they'll buy it and not bother comparing it to other cars. Basically, the "traditional" car buyer for dealerships who don't walk in knowing more than the sales guy.
Anyways, these sales charts aren't going to capture people like them because they're not "in" the market, but can jump in at any time. They don't fit any neat little demographic because like the wealthy Prius drivers, they can afford and will buy a car from $20,000 to $100,000. It's just way too broad a range.
In case anyone was thinking that I was not going to be following the upcoming crushing of the legacy ICE makers when the Model 3 starts steamrolling them, you were DEAD WRONG!
August...
The BMW 3 Series continues its ongoing glide path to zero sales in the U.S. Think I'm kidding? Here is an analyst picking up on the same concept:
BMW 3 Series business will 'go to zero' after Tesla Model 3, says Social Capital CEO
"In an hour-long appearance on CNBC's "Fast Money Halftime Report," Palihapitiya said the new auto model will outpace the comparable BMW 3 Series, saying "that entire business is going to go to zero."
"There is not a single person of right, sound mind and body, if you could build a Tesla Model 3 online and get it delivered in 30, 60, 90 days, or you have the choice of buying the BMW 3 Series will choose the BMW," he said"
RT
For those unclear on the concept, see the following:
0 - Wikipedia
August...
The BMW 3 Series continues its ongoing glide path to zero sales in the U.S. Think I'm kidding? Here is an analyst picking up on the same concept:
BMW 3 Series business will 'go to zero' after Tesla Model 3, says Social Capital CEO
"In an hour-long appearance on CNBC's "Fast Money Halftime Report," Palihapitiya said the new auto model will outpace the comparable BMW 3 Series, saying "that entire business is going to go to zero."
"There is not a single person of right, sound mind and body, if you could build a Tesla Model 3 online and get it delivered in 30, 60, 90 days, or you have the choice of buying the BMW 3 Series will choose the BMW," he said"
RT
For those unclear on the concept, see the following:
0 - Wikipedia
Yeah, this thread certainly confirms that the majority of Model 3 buyers previously owned a 3-Series...
What type of car is Model 3 replacing for you?
What type of car is Model 3 replacing for you?
EVNow
Well-Known Member
I'd like ICE car sales to go to zero next month - just like everyone else. But that is not the data is telling us.
Auto Sales - Markets Data Center - WSJ.com
All cars are down, CUVs are up. People are again shifting to larger vehicles as gas prices are low. All the below is just in top 20.
Camry down 7%, Malibu down 21%, Fusion down 27%, Corolla down 10%.
Rav4 up 16%, CR-V up 8%, Rogue up 20%, Equinox up 16%, Charokee up 17%, Highlander up 23%.
September numbers are in:
Toyota Prius sales in 2012 were 147,507
This year they are on track for about 68,000
A 50% haircut in 5 years (note: excludes plug in sales)
Toyota Prius sales in 2012 were 147,507
This year they are on track for about 68,000
A 50% haircut in 5 years (note: excludes plug in sales)
SageBrush
REJECT Fascism
The Prius Prime plug-in is tremendous value compared to the standard hybrid.
I paid $17k after incentives and average 110 mpg + a modest PV input for a use case that does not match its strengths all that well.
SageBrush
REJECT Fascism
Perhaps. It's success (like all hybrids) is closely tied to petrol prices
My point was that Prius sales should include the Prime since it is (and should !) take sales away from the standard hybrid.
AZ Desert Driver
Rare combination
This past few months had a couple of hurricanes that flooded thousands of cars, so there are thousands of folks that are buying replacement cars. One could speculate if "availability" is dominant, or if EV or gas mileage dominates purchase decisions. But I suggest "steady state purchase decisions" have been altered by these storms, which may affect Rubber Toes tally. Not that the tally is wrong, just that the inertia of buying may have a bump in the data.
Agreed. But that still only takes yearly sales to about 88,000. Sad to see the Prius falling so far, from its leadership position, just because Toyota couldn't see that full BEV was the way to go. Someone there got a possibly fatal case of ideology.
Thank you kindly
SageBrush
REJECT Fascism
The full BEV has been a resounding commercial failure for every automotive company in the world except one company whose name starts with a T. As for the Prius family, it has always tied its fortunes to the price of fuel. So while sales have plummeted in the US, the world scene is much rosier. That is not an epitaph.
And since I am feeling argumentative, I'll point out that a no small part of Tesla's commercial success is related to sale of CARB credits ... that are used in the market to support gas guzzlers. So while you might view this as a transitory period to ignore, it is true that for now a measly, lousy 25 mile EV Prime Prius is probably the penultimate environmental choice.
Anyway, that is my view of a fair hearing for Toyota hybrids in general, and the Prime specifically.
Brando
Active Member
You make it sound like this is a feature of the marketplace rather than the specific BEVs in question. Anyone looking at the Model 3 waiting list can see that pent up demand is present. It could even be argued that those BEV were resounding successes from the standpoint of the companies who made them. The CEO of Fiat said "Don't buy this car" and pretty much, people obliged.
Thank you kindly
SageBrush
REJECT Fascism
Think about what makes Tesla:
1. Lead by Elon Musk, perhaps the greatest scientific industrialist of the century
2. Willingness to bet the company on EV
3. Willingness to hock the company to build the Gigafactory
4. A company vision that makes friends of environmentalists and 'Performance/enthusiasts' alike
5. Holder of perhaps the strongest brand loyalty ... ever
... And it is still a gamble whether Tesla will succeed. I think they will, but the risk of failure is obvious. So yes, the EV marketplace outside of the Tesla galaxy is a market failure, at least for now. I frankly doubt there is much Toyota stockholder discontent over the slow and steady move towards electrification that Toyota is following. Now the romance with hydrogen cars is a different story. I wish they would stop.
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Breezy
Member
The Hyundai Genesis is now the Genesis G80.
Good to see those Prius Prime and Bolt sales. The Prime has sold over 35,000 worldwide.
Good to see those Prius Prime and Bolt sales. The Prime has sold over 35,000 worldwide.
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