Model 3 reveal effect on other luxury car sales

[Red Sage]

Sometimes you simply cannot tell a wrinkled piece of gray skin is actually an elephant unless you stand far enough away.

A car most people do not even know exists outsold most the cars on that list. It's a XT 5 (not XTS). It sells for $39-50k looks goofy, and is made by company with an evil reputation.

It sells 5,000 a month, gets so-so mileage at 26 hwy, and a mediocre 310 ponies.

I would not buy one on a bet. And it's one of the poorest sellers in it's market.

No matter how you select your lists, people DIDN'T STOP BUYING CARS. People changed the kind of car they buy.

Toyota people buy Camry's and Rav4's with close to 30,000 units each a month, not Priuses. Those 2 together outsell all the cars on the above list. Together they outpace all combined US Plug In sales by 5:1.

@McRat -- Hmmm... The Cadillac XT5 seems sort of like an enlarged version of the Toyota Venza, that was spawned from a sperm donation from a circa 2002 Chrysler Pacifica. Which means, it's OK.

It sells almost 5,000 units per month, if you round up a bit on its best months, but it hasn't crossed the 5,000 unit threshold even once so far. Apparently it has only been on the market since April 2016. It's year-to-date sales are at 26,685 units. And it is not in any way a Compact or Midsize Sedan in the entry level luxury market. Nor is it a hybrid, or a plugin of any sort. That's probably why it is not included in the comparison chart above, and very likely won't be.

What matters is that the Prius, despite nearly a 13% loss in sales thanks to its incredibly ugly visage, is still outselling the Chevrolet VOLT, which despite a climb from 2015 has only managed 22% of Prius sales so far this year. At this rate, the VOLT will be lucky to cross 22,000 units for the year, and will again lose to the far more expensive Tesla Model S -- which has already sold over 22,000 units to US Customers. That's equivalent to what Tesla Delivered worldwide in 2013 -- and they did it in the US alone in only ten months. Ain't that grand?

You know what? When your sub-$40,000 car is outsold by one that starts over $65,000...? That probably means there is something severely wrong. Either with: 1) the Product; 2) the Sales Method; or 3) BOTH. Especially when there are over 1,900 places to buy a Chevrolet, and 24 States won't allow Tesla to sell within their borders at all.

It seems your comment is a non sequitur in all aspects. As usual. I wonder what you'll say once the Model X begins to outsell the XT5? Goodbye, again!

 

[SageBrush]

Well stated. But I still think it is 'just Tesla'.

On second thought, you may be right. Presumably some portion of the 400k M3 reservations are people who have put their car buying plans on ice.

 

[SageBrush]

I prefer to believe that Toyota Prius sales are substantially down because the latest iteration is just plain Mother lovin' fugly beyond belief.

I've heard variations of that belief ever since the Prius went on sale 15 years ago and people bought them in droves. When fuel was expensive.

That is the real Achilles heel of Prius in America -- people mostly see them as an economical choice when fuel is expensive, while Greenies like me have to a large degree migrated to *EV.

EM has once again seen over the horizon by making sure that the Tesla brand has a much broader base to attract buyers.

 

[Red Sage]

I've heard variations of that belief ever since the Prius went on sale 15 years ago and people bought them in droves. When fuel was expensive.

That is the real Achilles heel of Prius in America -- people mostly see them as a fuel economical choice. The Greenies like me have to a large degree migrated to *EV. EM has once again seen over the horizon by making sure that the Tesla brand has a much broader base to attract buyers.

Yup! That too! Though, I've liked the Prius since Generation II. It has always seemed like the World's Most Perfect Version of the Pontiac J-2000 to me. But this latest one...? Ugh.

 

[RubberToe]

Anybody know whats up with the BMW 5 Series?

 

[Red Sage]

Anybody know whats up with the BMW 5 Series?

I think it may be getting long in the tooth. There is a new E-Class, but it has lost ground compared to 2015. The A6 is in even worse condition, behind the Model S in sales. Personally, I take this as proof that Tesla Motors has no need to create a 'tweener' vehicle to compete against any of those directly. I believe that the combination of Model S and Model ☰ will obliterate sales totals of Midsize cars in the price range.

 

[Spidy]

New 5-Series was just unveiled, but isn't available yet.

 

[Red Sage]

New 5-Series was just unveiled, but isn't available yet.

Oh, yeah. I had forgotten about that. It seems that 5-Series fans had largely forgotten about it too! Now that you mention it, I think that the biggest complaints were that it was rather staid, boring, and 'blended in' too well somehow. I think that the long held trend toward 'understated elegance' may well have run its course.

 

[Topher]

I think that the long held trend toward 'understated elegance' may well have run its course.

With the exception of the fashion factor, the design of cars is controlled by a limited number of real-world factors. Any fashion priorities must come at the expense of one of those factors. This works in a world where all car makers are making that same choice. With the advent of EVs (which would seem to have fewer constraints, and more sensitivity to the real-world), fashion seems to be a route to failure (or low sales, if that is their definition of success). It may come back when everyone is back on a level playing field, but now, it is just too much to give up.

Thank you kindly.

 

[Trips]

Look at all for the BMW's in the total dollar amount change, they are three of the top five. In my state Lexus has gone to the "no haggle" pricing as a trial on their new cars. I wonder is others will try this out.

 

[Chopr147]

n my state Lexus has gone to the "no haggle" pricing as a trial on their new cars. I wonder is others will try this out.

A little hard to do that now when a precedent has already been established. "no haggle" to me should be a good price and if I don't feel that way I am going to haggle

 

[RobStark]

I am going to haggle

You can b!tch.
You can make an offer.
But it takes at least two to haggle.

 

[RubberToe]

Here are the year end 2016 numbers. 5-Series wins the prize for greatest gross $$$ decline in sales from 2015, with the 4-Series a respectable second place. Combined loss of over $1,000,000,000 there (Gotta love those 10-digit numbers, even in German!). And the Prius (normal) gets special mention for a continuing YOY decline in sales. It could be that the Prius Fanboys were simply awaiting the Prius Prime (Plug-In) so held off on buying the regular one. The 781 to 1,641 increase in Prime sales may be evidence of that. Will be interesting to see how that unfolds this year, especially after the Model 3 reveal part 3.

In any case, these cars combined generated $4,369,246,605 less in revenue in 2016 than in 2015. Is this coincidence? Voodoo perhaps? The work of the Church Lady, or even Satan?

Or maybe even a result of the Model 3 reveal?

Model 3 production gets closer with every passing day (even in Elon Time). So those waiting to purchase a Model 3 will be even less inclined over time to be getting something else. Unless the M3 is delayed so much that people have to replace their current car. Even with something the unwashed masses wouldn't want to be seen in. See the list below for those cars...

 

[Red Sage]

Oh, well. So the Prius didn't maintain their streak of selling 100,000+ units in the U.S. after all. I think it was more about the fact the current car is just plain fugly. It was a serious mistake to attempt to validate the gawdawful ugly styling of the MIRAI by moving the entire Toyota product line in that direction. A shame they didn't just take the NS-4 Concept and make that the new Prius instead. Maybe they'll use that design for a Camry in a few years?

 

[Garlan Garner]

Let the M3 take sales from the MS so long as they can sell 3 M3's for everyone that was contemplating a MS purchase.

 

[22522]

I like a lot of what Toyota is doing from a technology and human perspective, but it seems like most of the subtle words are missing from their designer's vocabulary. Maybe someone skilled could do a Toyota Audi comparison and make a subtle word list (or design element list) and then let the Toyota folks figure out what kind of car they can design using only subtle words.

 

[MikeDog77]

I love this thread and check it every month. I hope you start a new one for 2017. All I can say is I would be buying a BMW 3 series if it was not for the M3. I may have bought a Chevy Volt as well. These numbers are real.

 

[Chopr147]

A shame they didn't just take the NS-4 Concept and make that the new Prius instead. Maybe they'll use that design for a Camry in a few years?

That's a good looking car. Much better in my opinion than the Mirai and Prius. I spoke a Toyota rep. last EV day and checked out the Mirai. It appears to be a big car but I think that is due to the front and back sticking out with odd shapes. The rep. said NY,NJ and Connecticut would have hydrogen fuel cell stations being installed in the near future. I don't see that happening.We'll see how the tech evolves and it's a great idea. Just pales in comparison to BEV, Tesla mostly

 

[Bangor Bob]

I like a lot of what Toyota is doing from a technology and human perspective, but it seems like most of the subtle words are missing from their designer's vocabulary.

Samurai aren't subtle...
But then they're also useless in a gunfight. Particularly electric gunfights.

 

[Red Sage]

Samurai aren't subtle...
But then they're also useless in a gunfight. Particularly electric gunfights.

Hey! I resemble that remark!