Model 3 Road Noise

[iwannam3]

I switched to Pirelli Cinturatos last year which are one of the quietest tires around. I have had them on my S two times. I then ordered them for my 3 as well. They made the biggest difference.

Rightnow, they are being called as Pirelli P7 AS3, they dropped the Cinturato name. However, the closest size available for Model 3 is 245 45 R 18 (for the 18” size). Slightly wider but it will fit on stock rims.

Will they overhang enough to protect the rims from rash?

 

[one2many]

If you have chickens in the trunk, road noise is gone.

 

[RayK]

@_Redshift_ Tirerack.com still has Pirelli Cinturatos P7 in 235/45R18. They also have Pirelli P7 AS Plus 3 in 245/45R18.

Are these the ones you are talking about? The treads are a bit different to each other. The main spec difference appears to be UTQG of 500AA for the Cinturatos and 740AA for the AS Plus 3.

 

[_Redshift_]

Will they overhang enough to protect the rims from rash?

You have try it out. When I switched last year, they had the 235 available. You can chat with tire rack people. They are usually very knowledgeable and helpful.

 

[_Redshift_]

@_Redshift_ Tirerack.com still has Pirelli Cinturatos P7 in 235/45R18. They also have Pirelli P7 AS Plus 3 in 245/45R18.

Are these the ones you are talking about? The treads are a bit different to each other. The main spec difference appears to be UTQG of 500AA for the Cinturatos and 740AA for the AS Plus 3.

The first link is for the older versions of the tires I got last year. Mine were called Pirelli Cinturato P7 Plus II. Those were highest rated for quietness and comfort. This older version (I don’t know why they have the older version in stock TBH) is not rated very high, as you can see.

The second link (P7 AS Plus 3) is the one I am suggesting you guys can try.

 

[enemji]

Isn't the majority of noise coming from the hard 42 psi tires? Both acoustically from sound of tire/road impact and vibrations through the suspension? I HAD to drive the wife's Prius and was struck by how much quieter it is. I would give up 40 miles of range for a tire that would reduce the noise level. Has anyone attacked the noise at it's source, the tire? A softer, narrower tire that may not have the efficiency or performance of the OEM, but significantly quieter?

I have 2 M3LR. One has Michelin and the other has Hankook. The hankook drives quieter than the Michelin

 

[tm1v2]

Will they overhang enough to protect the rims from rash?

@iwannam3 If it helps, here's 245/45R18 Bridgestone Potenza Sport on 18x8.5" wheels (same size as base Model 3 wheels). You can see the sidewall sticks out slightly from the wheel, though that can vary wildly between tire models and brands, even in the same size!

I'm doubtful it helps much with curb rash protection. Think about the momentum of a 4000 lbs car pushing the wheel up against the curb...that little bit sticking out won't do much. People sometimes talk about rim protection from tires, but honestly unless you want a really oversized balloon-looking setup, like for offroading, I don't think you're going to get much curb protection.

 

[_Redshift_]

@iwannam3 If it helps, here's 245/45R18 Bridgestone Potenza Sport on 18x8.5" wheels (same size as base Model 3 wheels). You can see the sidewall sticks out slightly from the wheel, though that can vary wildly between tire models and brands, even in the same size!

I'm doubtful it helps much with curb rash protection. Think about the momentum of a 4000 lbs car pushing the wheel up against the curb...that little bit sticking out won't do much. People sometimes talk about rim protection from tires, but honestly unless you want a really oversized balloon-looking setup, like for offroading, I don't think you're going to get much curb protection.

View attachment 841026

Nice! Do you feel the car handles more sporty with the wider tires? (Especially when taking curves at speed)

 

[tm1v2]

Nice! Do you feel the car handles more sporty with the wider tires? (Especially when taking curves at speed)

@_Redshift_ Yeah, the new tires grip better both dry and wet. I think that has more to do with the tire model, than with the 10mm extra width.

I changed wheels at the same time though so multiple variables at play. I have an M3P that came with the oversized, overweight 20x9" wheels, with 235/35R20 Pirelli P-Zero PZ4 tires that were visibly stretched on the wide wheel. Really odd setup from the factory.

The 18x8.5" wheels are much lighter and I can feel it through the steering wheel, for example it feels better in quick back-and-forth turns on really twisty stretches of road, and just feels a little easier to turn in general. I haven't bothered weighing either the original or new wheel+tire combos but I've carried around both and I can tell you the new setup is a good bit lighter!

I was worried the taller sidewalls would feel mushy but not at all with these tires. I couldn't detect any loss of steering response...maybe there was a tiny bit but too little for me to notice.

 

[one2many]

For those that never played in a heavy metal band, this is the solution to the issue.

 

[_Redshift_]

@_Redshift_ Yeah, the new tires grip better both dry and wet. I think that has more to do with the tire model, than with the 10mm extra width.

I changed wheels at the same time though so multiple variables at play. I have an M3P that came with the oversized, overweight 20x9" wheels, with 235/35R20 Pirelli P-Zero PZ4 tires that were visibly stretched on the wide wheel. Really odd setup from the factory.

The 18x8.5" wheels are much lighter and I can feel it through the steering wheel, for example it feels better in quick back-and-forth turns on really twisty stretches of road, and just feels a little easier to turn in general. I haven't bothered weighing either the original or new wheel+tire combos but I've carried around both and I can tell you the new setup is a good bit lighter!

I was worried the taller sidewalls would feel mushy but not at all with these tires. I couldn't detect any loss of steering response...maybe there was a tiny bit but too little for me to notice.

I am glad. When I bought my 3 in 2018 I looked briefly into lighter weight wheels (MR 503 is only 17.8 lbs for the 18”). My S has one of the lightest wheels which weighs just 23 lbs. The difference in handling was immediate and very nice.

 

[Ernest H]

Spent couple of hours on the weekend looking into this. In Perth Australia where *sugar* roads are everywhere. Jan 2022 built MIC RWD model. No mods except lighting and creature-comfort stuff. First EV so was expecting super quiet interior especially coming off a diesel SUV and swag of BMW M3s in the last 25 years. Read up this thread started by enemji and on theory agreed with the box amplifying sound from lower boot compartment (trunk in other regions) and under bonnet (frunk..). So ordered online for some sound deadening material. See pictures. At the end I ran out of materials so didn't manage to cover all that I wanted. My findings:

- Boot lower compartment yield the most ROI. Not so much over coarse-chip road, but over small bumps like median strip markers, but very noticeable over average / good roads.
- Bonnet space - didn't yield as much as I hoped for, but I did not have materials to do the actual bonnet itself.
- Boot lower compartment tub, in current Tesla's service manual for Model 3, it still references as a big single-piece that I have to remove both rear seat backs and the seat cushion itself, before a number of torx, however, my 2022 MIC built, the tub is now sectional and super easy to remove and access the body of the car. See pictures for detail.

hope this would be useful information for someone.

 

[Ernest H]

@iwannam3 If it helps, here's 245/45R18 Bridgestone Potenza Sport on 18x8.5" wheels (same size as base Model 3 wheels). You can see the sidewall sticks out slightly from the wheel, though that can vary wildly between tire models and brands, even in the same size!

I'm doubtful it helps much with curb rash protection. Think about the momentum of a 4000 lbs car pushing the wheel up against the curb...that little bit sticking out won't do much. People sometimes talk about rim protection from tires, but honestly unless you want a really oversized balloon-looking setup, like for offroading, I don't think you're going to get much curb protection.

Aesthetically it is looking much better over the standard 235/45/18 on the 8.5". Maybe it is Potenza's sidewall construction, but i'm digging the look over the Pilot sport's. I'd probably go for 255/40 when I'm nearing my next set of replacement but on numbers, 265/40 is probably closer to the original 235/45 in terms of diameter, etc. see attached. Not a common setup and I'm sure it'd be damn expensive..

 

[CS@Tshields]

We hate to sound bias but our floor mats are tipple layered and they fit so well that they help dampen road noise! In fact we were able to pour more than 2 gallons of milk and we had zero spillage. We did however have a unique way to emptying out the milk.

 

[pikeman]

I see there have been many discussions on eliminating road noise, including the obvious dynamat on floor to the unique foam on the rear shelf for 2019 amd older models.

However, and somebody who is very engaged in audio science, I took a very different look and approach and it has worked!

So what different did I do?

If you see any speaker, you will see that the foundation of sound reproduction is designing the box. A speaker without a box is barely audible. Put that driver in a box and voila!

With that in mind my hypothesis was that the frunk and the trunk well are acting the same as speaker boxes and amplifying the road noise.

To test it out, I went down the path of insulating and isolating the frunk and the trunk well with simple bubble wrap on the floor of both the frunk and trunk well. On top of the bubble wrap, I placed the rubber mats to keep them down.

I then waited for my wife to take the car out to shopping and who had no idea of what I was doing in the garage.

After she came back from running her errands and shopping, she remarked over dinner that the car was very quiet today and almost no road noise, even over the rough worn out concrete roads outside the neighborhood. She then stared into my eyes and asked “What did you do?”

Then I also took out the car for a ride and yes! The car is almost as quiet as my mercedes S class.

I hope this helps anybody who is interested in reducing road noise on their Model 3.

By the way, this is the bubble wrap I used that I had some in my garage.

Double Bubble Reflective Thermal Aluminum Foil Radiant Heat Vapor Barrier Insulation: (24" X 10 Ft) Heavy Duty (Water Proof No Tear): Walls Windows Garages Attics Air Ducts HVAC Vehicle Etc https://a.co/d/iH9Pemw

What a great solution! I will be working on this as soon as I gather the materials. You might be amused by a related problem with my 2017 124 Abarth. It’s based on the 2016 Mazda ND car, and has an empty well where a spare tire might be stored. That piece of sheet metal is right above the muffler, and is essentially a drum head. It resonates and amplifies the exhaust noise. I used adhesive rubber tiles on the bare metal to dampen the racket and the difference was amazing. The car sounds good in the cockpit, especially with the top up.
Bravo!

 

[3P TGV]

After basically tearing my car apart (2019 M3), in search of more silence... I wanted to share what I did just recently.

I have already partially put a layer of dynamat and a layer of 4 mm foam (on top of the dynamat) in the area between the driver and passenger seats and the fire wall (underneath the floor carpet). There is no sound absorbing insulation under the carpet in my car anywhere - unlike most cars!
That helped but I felt that there was always more noise coming from the door area. I wanted to test a theory, so I removed the lower side rocker panels on the outside of the vehicle and put adhesive foam (Noico 150) on the underside of the chassis where the rocker panels and the chassis meet. I cut strips of the foam and put them in between the clip holes and also did the same on the rocker panels as well and reinstalled the panels.
One word of caution to anyone wanting to try this. The rocker panel clips can be damaged when pulling off the rocker panels as I found out. The clips are a combination of rubber gasket and plastic clip and most of my plastic clips remained in the clip holes and not on the rocker panel. Since I did not have any replacement clips I silicone glued the rocker clip tabs to those clips as I reinstalled the rocker panels - SO ANYONE WISHING TO TRY THIS - BEWARE THAT YOU MIGHT HAVE A HARD TIME REINSTALLING THE ROCKER PANELS - PROCEED WITH CAUTION and at your own risk.

One thing that I noticed is that the sheet metal in that area is so really thin and hollow sounding with the rocker panel removed. There is nothing in that chassis cavity and again the sheet metal is so thin and tinny sounding- that empty cavity is perfect for collecting road noise. There is also a small gap where the rocker panel meets the chassis on the battery side which probably traps noise within the space in between the rocker panel and chassis.

The foam that was used was not very thick (4mm) but using it on both the rocker panel and the chassis made a significant improvement. It did not fill the entire space between the rocker panel and chassis but it definitely helped absorb road noise. I was generally shocked how much that area is affected by road noise. Front tire impact noise is reduced and concrete highway noise as well, especially when I transition from asphalt to concrete sections on our roadways in CA. I did not measure the sound difference before and after but I am really happy with the results and can't believe how much that area can be a source of road noise up through the doors.

This is a relatively simple, cost-effective solution and I don't know why the factory does not apply proper sound deadening material in that area between the chassis and rocker panel. Yes, water can get in there as evidenced by how dirty that area both on the chassis and the inside of the rocker panel, but the foam I used is waterproof and closed cell and will not apparently absorb water and sticks like crazy, so I am not worried about it. - plus I don't drive very much when it rains.

 

[jkdman123]

View attachment 837551

How did you attach it to the sub-trunk lid? Just double sided tape?

 

[_Redshift_]

After basically tearing my car apart (2019 M3), in search of more silence... I wanted to share what I did just recently.

I have already partially put a layer of dynamat and a layer of 4 mm foam (on top of the dynamat) in the area between the driver and passenger seats and the fire wall (underneath the floor carpet). There is no sound absorbing insulation under the carpet in my car anywhere - unlike most cars!
That helped but I felt that there was always more noise coming from the door area. I wanted to test a theory, so I removed the lower side rocker panels on the outside of the vehicle and put adhesive foam (Noico 150) on the underside of the chassis where the rocker panels and the chassis meet. I cut strips of the foam and put them in between the clip holes and also did the same on the rocker panels as well and reinstalled the panels.
One word of caution to anyone wanting to try this. The rocker panel clips can be damaged when pulling off the rocker panels as I found out. The clips are a combination of rubber gasket and plastic clip and most of my plastic clips remained in the clip holes and not on the rocker panel. Since I did not have any replacement clips I silicone glued the rocker clip tabs to those clips as I reinstalled the rocker panels - SO ANYONE WISHING TO TRY THIS - BEWARE THAT YOU MIGHT HAVE A HARD TIME REINSTALLING THE ROCKER PANELS - PROCEED WITH CAUTION and at your own risk.

One thing that I noticed is that the sheet metal in that area is so really thin and hollow sounding with the rocker panel removed. There is nothing in that chassis cavity and again the sheet metal is so thin and tinny sounding- that empty cavity is perfect for collecting road noise. There is also a small gap where the rocker panel meets the chassis on the battery side which probably traps noise within the space in between the rocker panel and chassis.

The foam that was used was not very thick (4mm) but using it on both the rocker panel and the chassis made a significant improvement. It did not fill the entire space between the rocker panel and chassis but it definitely helped absorb road noise. I was generally shocked how much that area is affected by road noise. Front tire impact noise is reduced and concrete highway noise as well, especially when I transition from asphalt to concrete sections on our roadways in CA. I did not measure the sound difference before and after but I am really happy with the results and can't believe how much that area can be a source of road noise up through the doors.

This is a relatively simple, cost-effective solution and I don't know why the factory does not apply proper sound deadening material in that area between the chassis and rocker panel. Yes, water can get in there as evidenced by how dirty that area both on the chassis and the inside of the rocker panel, but the foam I used is waterproof and closed cell and will not apparently absorb water and sticks like crazy, so I am not worried about it. - plus I don't drive very much when it rains.

I too have done pretty extensive sound deadening on my 3 as well as S.

Results have been worth it.

 

[Ernest H]

After basically tearing my car apart (2019 M3), in search of more silence... I wanted to share what I did just recently.

I have already partially put a layer of dynamat and a layer of 4 mm foam (on top of the dynamat) in the area between the driver and passenger seats and the fire wall (underneath the floor carpet). There is no sound absorbing insulation under the carpet in my car anywhere - unlike most cars!
That helped but I felt that there was always more noise coming from the door area. I wanted to test a theory, so I removed the lower side rocker panels on the outside of the vehicle and put adhesive foam (Noico 150) on the underside of the chassis where the rocker panels and the chassis meet. I cut strips of the foam and put them in between the clip holes and also did the same on the rocker panels as well and reinstalled the panels.
One word of caution to anyone wanting to try this. The rocker panel clips can be damaged when pulling off the rocker panels as I found out. The clips are a combination of rubber gasket and plastic clip and most of my plastic clips remained in the clip holes and not on the rocker panel. Since I did not have any replacement clips I silicone glued the rocker clip tabs to those clips as I reinstalled the rocker panels - SO ANYONE WISHING TO TRY THIS - BEWARE THAT YOU MIGHT HAVE A HARD TIME REINSTALLING THE ROCKER PANELS - PROCEED WITH CAUTION and at your own risk.

One thing that I noticed is that the sheet metal in that area is so really thin and hollow sounding with the rocker panel removed. There is nothing in that chassis cavity and again the sheet metal is so thin and tinny sounding- that empty cavity is perfect for collecting road noise. There is also a small gap where the rocker panel meets the chassis on the battery side which probably traps noise within the space in between the rocker panel and chassis.

The foam that was used was not very thick (4mm) but using it on both the rocker panel and the chassis made a significant improvement. It did not fill the entire space between the rocker panel and chassis but it definitely helped absorb road noise. I was generally shocked how much that area is affected by road noise. Front tire impact noise is reduced and concrete highway noise as well, especially when I transition from asphalt to concrete sections on our roadways in CA. I did not measure the sound difference before and after but I am really happy with the results and can't believe how much that area can be a source of road noise up through the doors.

This is a relatively simple, cost-effective solution and I don't know why the factory does not apply proper sound deadening material in that area between the chassis and rocker panel. Yes, water can get in there as evidenced by how dirty that area both on the chassis and the inside of the rocker panel, but the foam I used is waterproof and closed cell and will not apparently absorb water and sticks like crazy, so I am not worried about it. - plus I don't drive very much when it rains.

interesting, will see if I have time over the next month or so to jack the car up and un-do the rocker panels. But since I'm with a MIC 2022 M3 RWD, could differ to yours as it was made in the US.

Secondly, I will be taking the door sills out to install the speakers activation cable so will take a look at the under seat carpetted area for sound deadening materials. I'm still waiting for another 4 metres of materials to arrive so will hold off from full-on seat removal.

 

[3P TGV]

interesting, will see if I have time over the next month or so to jack the car up and un-do the rocker panels. But since I'm with a MIC 2022 M3 RWD, could differ to yours as it was made in the US.

Secondly, I will be taking the door sills out to install the speakers activation cable so will take a look at the under seat carpetted area for sound deadening materials. I'm still waiting for another 4 metres of materials to arrive so will hold off from full-on seat removal.

Sounds like a fun project.
On the rocker panels, just be careful when you pull them off - as I mentioned above. But I am very happy with the results it made on my car.

I think the reasoning behind not putting any sound insulation under the carpet is the fact that the battery - being so thick and directly under the floor - should act like a sound barrier, but the noise seems to just transmit through it, and Tesla is probably too cheap and too concerned with adding more weight to properly isolate it. There is no foam in between the battery pack and the floor, which would probably help (again another cost cutting move?).
In addition, on my car the rear floor section behind the front seats flexes and hits the battery pack underneath it, it literally sounds hollow and like a tin can when you press on it - Not sure if the new models have this known issue anymore, but I am sure it could have been solved with some sort of pad in between the floor and battery - just unacceptable in my opinion.

Interestingly, new Mercedes EQS sedan has an insulating pad attached to the battery pack on the outside facing the road, thus isolating the battery pack from the road. The car is super quiet.