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Model 3 + Rolec —> interrupted charging?

PrGrPa

Member
Aug 12, 2017
321
157
Manchester
Hi. Anyone have experience of Model 3 interrupted charging with a tethered Rolec charger?

The charger has been fine with my Model S (23mph charging rate at ~32A 230-250VAC).

with our new Model 3 I expected the same results: plug-in, charge up. But charging is stopped at various times in the process. My local SC is investigating, but as it charges with the 13A adapter and with their chargers it looks like the Rolec is the likely problem.

any experiences or suggestions that might help?
 

SirRob

Member
Aug 8, 2019
121
130
Not-Required
I've had no issues with the Rolec other than the contactor buzzing from time to time.

If you hit start charging after a failure, does it start to charge again? Perhaps it's worth pulling the lid off and taking a look at the state of the wires at the top of your RCD, the older ones have been known to fail.
 
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PrGrPa

Member
Aug 12, 2017
321
157
Manchester
I've had no issues with the Rolec other than the contactor buzzing from time to time.

If you hit start charging after a failure, does it start to charge again? Perhaps it's worth pulling the lid off and taking a look at the state of the wires at the top of your RCD, the older ones have been known to fail.
Thanks very much for sharing your experience.

No, in nearly every case of interrupted charging I’ve needed to unplug and start over. Pressing ‘start charging’ after these interruptions does not start it again.

I’ve noticed that the car does move from 32A down to 16A on its way to stopping charging. This may support the Tesla proposal that it is an over-voltage problem. Though the Rolec comes off the same CU as the 13A socket I charged the Model 3 from and I wonder about where the extra volts might arise.

you mean the wires fail? Or that the RCD fails in some way but does not trip? Neither the charger RCD nor the consumer unit RCD have tripped while charging either car. But I suppose the RCD might become faulty in some other way. Thanks. I’ll have a look.
 

arg

Supporting Member
Aug 22, 2012
1,808
1,804
Cambridge, UK
I’ve noticed that the car does move from 32A down to 16A on its way to stopping charging. This may support the Tesla proposal that it is an over-voltage problem. Though the Rolec comes off the same CU as the 13A socket I charged the Model 3 from and I wonder about where the extra volts might arise

If indeed it is an overvoltage problem, it would probably be that the Model 3 has slightly less tolerance than the S - and certainly any overvoltage can't be the fault of the Rolec. Undervoltage however could easily be a fault in the chargepoint or wiring.

But overvoltage at least ought to be fairly obvious - the voltage is displayed on the car and in the app, so you can keep an eye on it : if the voltage is on the high side and/or varies significantly during the day then that's a pointer, especially if the failures are overnight and you see the voltage gradually rising through the evening as demand in the neighbourhood drops off. Note: standard UK voltage is 230+10%/-6% so 216V to 253V. If you are regularly seeing 250V or more, then this seems a plausible theory. If it's rock-solid somewhere between 230-240 then overvoltage seems very unlikely.

The fact that the car is dropping off from 32A to 16A tends more to suggest undervoltage - the car will do that if it thinks it sees the voltage drooping in response to the start of charging, as it could suggest a high resistance connection and potential fire risk. Early Rolec units were notorious for this (the ones with the blue lever on the breaker in the top half of the unit): if yours has that, it's well worth opening it (with the power isolated) and looking for signs of burning around the connections to the breaker. If yours has a green lever, this is much less likely.

If we think this is voltage related, then another interesting experiment would be to plug in one of the cars via the 13A/UMC and the other via the Rolec, with charging paused (eg. timer). If you then start charging via the Rolec, how does the voltage displayed by the two cars change?
 
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phillcom3

Member
Jul 27, 2019
566
106
preston
can I use my rolec for botha leaf and a tesla? im assuming the blue cable with the telsa goes intot he rolec but what do I use for a leaf?
 

arg

Supporting Member
Aug 22, 2012
1,808
1,804
Cambridge, UK
can I use my rolec for botha leaf and a tesla? im assuming the blue cable with the telsa goes intot he rolec but what do I use for a leaf?

Newer Leaf (from the 40kWh model onwards) have Type2 sockets like the Tesla, so AC charging uses exactly the same cables. However, older Leaf uses the Type1 connector and needs a different cable.

If you have a Rolec with a socket, you need a Type2-Type2 cable (such as the one supplied with the Tesla) to charge a Tesla or recent-model Leaf, and you need a Type1-Type2 cable (widely available, but not necessarily supplied with the car) to charge an older Leaf.

If you have a Rolec with attached ("tethered") cable that you specified to fit the Tesla, then it will also charge a newer-model Leaf, but can't charge an older Leaf without (permanently) changing the attached cable.
 
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vitesse

Active Member
Apr 2, 2019
1,023
285
Hertfordshire (UK)
I had unreliable charging with our ROLEC and our MS, made confusing when a week with a loaner MS and every charge with that car was fine. Ultimately, what fixed it was a change of plug/cable. We latterly noticed that only a slight touch to the plug while charging would stop the charge.
 

SirRob

Member
Aug 8, 2019
121
130
Not-Required
Thanks very much for sharing your experience.

No, in nearly every case of interrupted charging I’ve needed to unplug and start over. Pressing ‘start charging’ after these interruptions does not start it again.

I’ve noticed that the car does move from 32A down to 16A on its way to stopping charging. This may support the Tesla proposal that it is an over-voltage problem. Though the Rolec comes off the same CU as the 13A socket I charged the Model 3 from and I wonder about where the extra volts might arise.

you mean the wires fail? Or that the RCD fails in some way but does not trip? Neither the charger RCD nor the consumer unit RCD have tripped while charging either car. But I suppose the RCD might become faulty in some other way. Thanks. I’ll have a look.
This could be due to the action of unplugging resetting the contactor. Isolate the unit and get the front cover off, I strongly suspect you're going to find a burnt out RCD. The good news being that an electrician should be able to replace it with a far more reliable one for a very modest cost.
 
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booyaka76

Member
Aug 19, 2019
282
227
Ayrshire
@PrGrPa

Looks very similar to me.....

Jumps to 32A at start, then drops to 16A, then just stops all together after about 10/15 minutes


Rolec unit - it's getting swapped out on monday for another Rolec unit (tethered this time) to see if that solves the issue.

However my 13A 3 pin does a similar thing - charges for about 10/20 minutes, then stops, I can immediately press "start charging" again in the app and it does the same again - charges for a bit, then stops. rinse and repeat.

Whether it's just the model 3 is super sensitive to voltage fluctuations or not I'm not sure.

Charged on 50kw puiblic chargers twice (two different ones) - zero issues - full speed no interruptions.

Two public 22kw chargers start at full speed, then drop to around 2/3 speed after 3 or 4 minutes- Warning in the car tells me it's not charging at full speed.

So if issues still occur after new Rolec is installed on Monday, then I'll need to raise the issue with Tesla I guess.
 

Rooster6655

Active Member
May 3, 2019
1,535
530
UK
Hi. Anyone have experience of Model 3 interrupted charging with a tethered Rolec charger?

The charger has been fine with my Model S (23mph charging rate at ~32A 230-250VAC).

with our new Model 3 I expected the same results: plug-in, charge up. But charging is stopped at various times in the process. My local SC is investigating, but as it charges with the 13A adapter and with their chargers it looks like the Rolec is the likely problem.

any experiences or suggestions that might help?

Tried a Rolec charger and it kept stopping at 32A but if I change it to 31A it was fine, so perhaps see if that works to diagnose your issue
 
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Fullerene

Member
Jul 31, 2019
372
395
Dorset, UK
my 2 cents - what time of day are you charging?

The fact that the car is dropping off from 32A to 16A tends more to suggest undervoltage

Here's me yesterday, voltage drops and power is dialled down from 32A to 24A, I do see grid voltage dropping locally during peak times and I will get voltage warning on the various bits of kit in the house. Generally I wouldn't charge during peak times - this was an accidental charge. So maybe not an issue with your charger but just a fact of what's happening on the grid.

Good luck ;)

Screen Shot 2019-10-05 at 09.36.13.png


Screen Shot 2019-10-05 at 09.36.59.png
 
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arg

Supporting Member
Aug 22, 2012
1,808
1,804
Cambridge, UK
Here's me yesterday, voltage drops and power is dialled down from 32A to 24A,

This is a fairly unhealthy looking set of graphs. Are you the last house on the end of a long run in the countryside?

It appears that there's a drop of about 5% (230 down to 220) as charging starts. If this was all within your installation, then that would be right at the limit of what's permitted on voltage drop; however from what you say probably a good proportion is within the supply. If you've got a 60A or 80A supply and there was not much else in the house turned on at the time, then it suggests you would have gone down to about 210V on full load and be out of spec.

Hard to tell from just this one snapshot, but it looks like your supply is either on the ragged edge of acceptable for a remote location, or else there's something wrong with it.
 
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Fullerene

Member
Jul 31, 2019
372
395
Dorset, UK
This is a fairly unhealthy looking set of graphs. Are you the last house on the end of a long run in the countryside?

yes, I’m end of the run, plus a lot of small homes on big plots on the way to me have been converted into sites with many massive homes, they all appear to have enormous heatpumps, which I am sure isn’t. The DNO hasn’t afaik upgraded any infrastructure.

I think it’s really borderline, thinking of getting a powerwall, I am seeing brown out at times, clearly below Minimum supply voltage. I suspect it may be blackout next. Not sure how to raise this with DNO. Any advice welcome :)
 
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Keeper

Member
May 16, 2019
429
251
Surrey GB
Hi. Anyone have experience of Model 3 interrupted charging with a tethered Rolec charger?

The charger has been fine with my Model S (23mph charging rate at ~32A 230-250VAC).

with our new Model 3 I expected the same results: plug-in, charge up. But charging is stopped at various times in the process. My local SC is investigating, but as it charges with the 13A adapter and with their chargers it looks like the Rolec is the likely problem.

any experiences or suggestions that might help?
Have you seen the message on the ev.energy app for the Rolec?
Smart Charging Settings
"Set a schedule to automatically Smart Charge your car. Your car may charge for a short time when you first plug in. Avoid this by setting a schedule in your car to start charging a long time after your typical connection time (e.g. midnight) We'll override these settings within 30 minutes"

I did this and mine seems to be working fine.
 

VT_EE

Active Member
Apr 22, 2017
2,047
2,488
Maryland
my 2 cents - what time of day are you charging?



Here's me yesterday, voltage drops and power is dialled down from 32A to 24A, I do see grid voltage dropping locally during peak times and I will get voltage warning on the various bits of kit in the house. Generally I wouldn't charge during peak times - this was an accidental charge. So maybe not an issue with your charger but just a fact of what's happening on the grid.

Good luck ;)

View attachment 462805

View attachment 462806
This looks like a problem with your feeder lines somewhere between the utility transformer and your car. Has your electric oven experienced any issues with staying at the proper temp? You should get a multimeter and measure the house voltage when this drop occurs. Basically, you have a large voltage drop once the line starts drawing significant current. My father’s place had a similar issue that was caused by a damaged underground feeder to his house. The damaged line couldn’t handle the current his oven was drawing. The utility replaced the feeder and everything worked fine. Just throwing a possible solution out there.
 
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PrGrPa

Member
Aug 12, 2017
321
157
Manchester
Thanks for your many comments and suggestions. I spoke with the helpful service folks. By getting me to charge with the 13A 3-pin type 2 adapter, then testing with their own Tesla wall chargers they suggested it probably was my wall charger.

our mains supply is reliable. NW electricity put in a 100A supply fuse for us last year. And they have replaced their transformer equipment and cables in the area in the past few years. We experience no service interruptions or any problems with other devices. My UPS logs historically showed long term VAC range of 230-250. When I’ve checked sockets with multimeters the results these days are usually around 240VAC +-5V.

I asked for more details on the interruptions if they were available from any vehicle logs. overvoltage? Undervoltage? Fluctuations? I was keen to get details so if I needed an electrician I’d have something more than ‘this car doesn’t charge’.

my concern was calling a busy electrician and having a non-specific, possibly intermittent problem for them. After all, the electricity to the 13A 3-pin socket comes off the same consumer unit, from an adjacent breaker to the Rolec’s.

they called back later to say that while investigating this they found something (unhelpfully, I forget what exactly) with the charging harness. Maybe their changes there might help?

After their tests, and mine, the battery was full. After a few local miles, I took a fair drive to a supercharger. First, to empty the battery a bit. Second, to test supercharging on the Model 3. Obviously my first mistake was to pull up at a non-CCS supercharger. I moved next to the only other car in ~8 bays, a Model S in one of a pair of CCS bays. Charged up for a few minutes (£0.92 - not seen the charging for charging in action before). Then back home. Got back with 149 miles of range. Plugged in the Rolec. Checking a few times early in charging I saw 32A and a range of 236-240VAC as the app values wandered. Seems OK. Overnight the battery charged to 90% with no obvious interruptions.

charging harness? One-off uninterrupted charge? I’ll check back with news when we’ve emptied the battery again and had another go at charging.
 
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arg

Supporting Member
Aug 22, 2012
1,808
1,804
Cambridge, UK
I think it’s really borderline, thinking of getting a powerwall, I am seeing brown out at times, clearly below Minimum supply voltage. I suspect it may be blackout next. Not sure how to raise this with DNO. Any advice welcome :)

Should be straightforward to raise it with the DNO - it's something they expect:

Voltage Changes - SP Energy Networks

In a case like this, they probably won't look at reinforcement until people complain since it's not necessarily obvious from their end that there's a problem (unlike the case of overload in more dense neighbourhoods where you'd start blowing fuses at the substation).
 

Fullerene

Member
Jul 31, 2019
372
395
Dorset, UK
This looks like a problem with your feeder lines somewhere between the utility transformer and your car.

I think this is the case. With my normal base load of 200-300W I still see big voltage drops particularly when not sunny and in cold weather.

With the graphs the only thing happening when that voltage dropped was my car charging, no other significant load.

Apologies for partial thread hijacking @PrGrPa I think there have been a few mentions previously of charging current drop. Hopefully yours will behave and not cause you too much pain.

Thanks @arg I guess they don’t monitor voltage at the end of the. Will look at raising a query with DNO.
 

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