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Model 3 + Snow Exposure = Frustration

Discussion in 'Model 3' started by Amendale, Jan 11, 2019.

  1. Amendale

    Amendale Member

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    Yes I have heard silicone lube is safe to use on rubber/plastics
     
  2. Belisarius

    Belisarius Member

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    Because premium ICE cars, Porsche AMG BMW AM JAG and many more, have a commercial off the shelf approach to seals that costs 500$ per car. In most cases (sub-premium Mercs do not count), the type of rubber, its thickness, layering and hydrophobic properties are the result of many years R&D into which premium makers buy. I do recall spending 30 min applying Gummi on Germans and a year leater was still uncovering layers and technique to condition it and get Gummi inside. Result? No creacks, cupple, no ice issues. Model 3 rubbers are sub-premium, relatively thin and that says it all.
     
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  3. Belisarius

    Belisarius Member

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    #203 Belisarius, Feb 4, 2019
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2019
    Actually, you are out to lunch. First, GASKETS AND SEALS are NOT Door seals.... Are they? So your argument fails right there. Secondly, you have no clue what is in various silicone sprays. Or what type of rubber the seals are, and what plastic trims lie underneath. Hexane, Naptha, solvent conducers, are bad for plastics, and often where you have silicone there is some plastic as well.. these attack the polymer links, leaving you with a weakened material after. A top North American company's silicone I was about to try, on testing it wiped on my paper towel black rubber marks on contact, and am glad I never continued. The spec sheet said "Safe for rubbers" but in practice, it was not. why? SOLVENTS. So unless you know chemistry, you cannot generalize SILICONE IS SAFE. Not all silicone sprays are equal, and most are bad...

    You also make another bad mistake: HEEDING ACTUAL EXPERTISE ADVICE. Detailers that claimed poor silicone effect on DOOR SEALS ad CAR TRIMS and PAINT types have worked on 1990s Nissans Gt all the way to Bugattis. They know their stuff. Perhaps instead you should read:

    Polydimethylsiloxane (PDS) is a basically inert, water based, amino functional polymer resin that doesn't migrate (dry out) the plasticizers from materials, has less UV radiation absorption and dust attraction properties. Chemists use water-in-oil emulsions, to reduce emulsion particle size, to stabilize emulsions, and to improve spreading and coverage of wax products. Most modern silicone formulas are water soluble (no petroleum), and are completely inert.The best way to describe most forms of silicone is to think of it as a man-made wax ester. Silicone is created by the reaction generated when you combine fatty acids with Polydimethylsiloxane

    The Bad: Dimethyl is derived from Aromatic hydrocarbon (petroleum) distillates, and is usually formulated with a solvent, hexane and petroleum oils, which are environmentally unsound and give a slick, oily finish, which attracts dust and dirt and amplifies sunlight causing vinyl and most plastics to dry out and crack, this type of silicone also causes ‘sling’, which means the product will land on body panels causing a black stain. It also causes rubber compounds along with sun iteration to remove the micro-wax in tyres as well as its carbon black (it's what makes tyres the colour they are)

    And The Ugly: Silicone is an active ingredient in sun UV amplification. As a low quality silicone dressing evaporates away, the silicone oil is left behind, the sun then amplifies these residues, and the drying process is accelerated. This causes rubber, EDPM, vinyl and plastics to dry out, which turns them grey or brown, losing their flexibility and prematurely fail. Water-based dressings do not contain oils or petroleum distillates and provide a non- greasy, natural looking satin finish.

    You also make another bad mistake: HEEDING ACTUAL EXPERTISE ADVICE. Detailers that claimed poor silicone effect on DOOR SEALS have worked on 1990s Nissans all the way to Bugattis. They know their stuff. Perhaps instead. Source:
    The good and the bad types of silicone.
    ****

    But here is the personal experience that you should pay attention to. After several summers of siliconing Japanese and German car rubbers (or whatever they are, not all are pure rubber)- REGULARLY- Noticed how by winter the darn things were HARD and squeaking, rattling and whistling. On my older cars, the seals started cracking and dried very fast... Asking around experts- and my city has 2- they replied exactly the same: SILICONE IS BAD ON DOOR SEALS.... You comparing gaskets with and UV exposed door seals is another argumentative issue.

    Point is , I LEARNED MY LESSONS, I used Ph Neutral mild soap to gradually clean my cars, then went GUMMI. And, like magic, old rubber became soft, waterproof, hydrophobic and souple, nasty creaks disappeared, and I did not have to spend hundreds of $ per car replacing them... So instead of a monthly clean, once per year Gummi and no more problems..

    So keep dishing bad advice and how oils or silicone are good for GASKETS, vs a completely different scope rubber...
     
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  4. Belisarius

    Belisarius Member

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    No it is not. Read on it. there is an entire literature on how and why it can attack the very thing you are trying to protect. If you love your Tesla, learn from others. If needing to dish 1000$ to replace rubbers year 5 go ahead...

    Polydimethylsiloxane (PDS) is a basically inert, water based, amino functional polymer resin that doesn't migrate (dry out) the plasticizers from materials, has less UV radiation absorption and dust attraction properties. Chemists use water-in-oil emulsions, to reduce emulsion particle size, to stabilize emulsions, and to improve spreading and coverage of wax products. Most modern silicone formulas are water soluble (no petroleum), and are completely inert.The best way to describe most forms of silicone is to think of it as a man-made wax ester. Silicone is created by the reaction generated when you combine fatty acids with Polydimethylsiloxane

    The Bad: Dimethyl is derived from Aromatic hydrocarbon (petroleum) distillates, and is usually formulated with a solvent, hexane and petroleum oils, which are environmentally unsound and give a slick, oily finish, which attracts dust and dirt and amplifies sunlight causing vinyl and most plastics to dry out and crack, this type of silicone also causes ‘sling’, which means the product will land on body panels causing a black stain. It also causes rubber compounds along with sun iteration to remove the micro-wax in tyres as well as its carbon black (it's what makes tyre’s the colour they are)

    And The Ugly: Silicone is an active ingredient in sun UV amplification. As a low quality silicone dressing evaporates away, the silicone oil is left behind, the sun then amplifies these residues, and the drying process is accelerated. This causes rubber, EDPM, vinyl and plastics to dry out, which turns them grey or brown, losing their flexibility and prematurely fail. Water-based dressings do not contain oils or petroleum distillates and provide a non- greasy, natural looking satin finish.
     
    • Disagree x 1
  5. Belisarius

    Belisarius Member

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    The most aggressive denials and insults usually come from Southern US or Norway, owners accusing of trolling anyone claiming a 30-50% range loss, because Norway is Arctic (avg Oslo winter temp is -4), etc. A site for tesla Canada is a good idea IMO as with windchill, we are talking arctic conditions.. And people forget that to remain healthy, these batteries NEED an operating temp of 21-30C. Not less and not more...
     
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  6. StealthP3D

    StealthP3D Active Member

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    At first blush it would appear obvious that your purpose here is to disrupt and antagonize productive discussion in this forum.

    Gaskets and seals includes door seals.

    I didn't say any concoction containing silicone is safe, I said silicone itself is safe. This is obvious and basic logic 101. Which is why I think your main purpose here is to disrupt and antogonize. First you made an absolute statement that is false, then you attack anyone who points out the fact that your absolute statement is easily disprovable.

    You can go on an on about how bad various oils are for gaskets and seals but a quick check of my post will show that I never claimed otherwise. I was only addressing silicone. I would never put oil on door gaskets (and I don't know anyone who does). But silicone won't hurt automotive door gaskets of any kind.
     
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  7. StealthP3D

    StealthP3D Active Member

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    That's false but if you care to provide credible and informed information to the contrary, I would certainly take a look.

    I maintain my earlier observation that your primary purpose here is to disrupt productive discussion and antagonize this forum by making false claims and then watching the chaos unfold as people flee with better things to spend their time on.

    So transparent.
     
  8. Amendale

    Amendale Member

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    Location:
    Toronto, Ontario
    On the both lubrication products I use (silicone lube, Teflon dry lube) it states that they are safe for all rubber and plastics.
     
  9. Snow Drift

    Snow Drift Slip Start: [Activated]

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    Feb 10, 2016
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    Location:
    Long Island
    I put 303 Rubber Seal Protectant on the seals and haven’t had any issue, yet, with the glass sticking to the rubber...however, after a heavy rain and 10° temperature, the handles were frozen and driver window wouldn’t roll down.

    Now, we wipe the handles (all over) after rain or car wash in the winter to help prevent freezing.

    I think the issue with the glass is inside the door panel, which is preventing the move down (even pressing the button wouldn’t roll down). So, it’s not a seal issue, but maybe something freezing inside. Preheating does help.

    Normal cold days have been fine. Door opens fine.
    3DEEB1D4-44BB-4C69-B6BA-BAFD59F82980.jpeg
     
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  10. mswlogo

    mswlogo Active Member

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    MA
    I have not had an issue using OEM air with the window gaskets either :) I bought that Gummi stuff but have not used it.

    I think the software hack Tesla did to keep windows down a 1/4 inch when it’s cold helps a lot and I suspect it’s allowing water to either drain away and/or not allow the bottom of the window to freeze to the seal along the top of the door INSIDE.
     
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