Model 3 + Snow Exposure = Frustration

[Hegemony]

I’m sure Tesla had very legitimate reasons for doing frameless doors. Could have been weight savings or aerodynamic efficiency or both.

From what I’ve read the far bigger issue is frozen charge ports and it does sound like Tesla have a redesigned part in the works to try to address that issue.

When the charge port is frozen you are screwed. Especially if you are getting low on battery and need to charge it. A couple hours with a hairdryer doesn’t seem like a very good option. I pity the poor SOBs dealing with a frozen charge port with young kids in the car crying that they are hungry or want to go home.

Omg the deafening cavalcade of those upper latitude parents with frozen charge ports and angry kiddos...

 

[StealthP3D]

Omg the deafening cavalcade of those upper latitude parents with frozen charge ports and angry kiddos...

I know, right? Next post will be a pregnant woman going into labor when your charge port door decides to freeze shut! Or maybe you won the $150 million lottery but didn't realize it until you checked your ticket 1 hour before it expires and you need a charge to get to the Lotto office to claim your money. But your charge port door just happens to be frozen shut.

These are good scenarios to point out the trouble with gasoline cars in the very cold. Right when you need your car to start because you have a stroke victim in your car and you get the dreaded groan followed by "click-click". I think I'll go on ICE forums and warn them away from ICE cars. Oh wait, that won't work because everyone is already familiar with ICE cars and know that it rarely happens and it's just something you deal with. What do I know, I'm just a Model 3 owner who has been through multiple snow/ice storms and never found his charge port door frozen shut.

 

[Incredulocious]

Agreed, I take mine to Tahoe all the time, which makes the snowfall in Canada look like flurries. We get snow 5 feet at a time in California and my Model 3 handles it with ease. Just be sure to put some isopropyl alcohol in your washer fluid, the stuff you buy in the auto parts store (in CA) freezes.

You can buy washer fluid in California that handles well below freezing, but only at stores in areas that need it, like in Tahoe/Truckee. That's where I get mine.

 

[ricohman]

I've spent a couple of winters in Winnipeg - those prairie winters are something else - that wind!!!

TBH I don't think it's a summer-only car. It's done just fine with snow and ice and drives great in all winter conditions. The most painful issues I've had are with the freezing charging port lock and for that I expect they will come out with a new part and retrofit to existing owners. In second place would be the door handles which are a bit annoying (and embarrassing) to deal with but livable. I do 50,000km per year between work and ferrying kids, in all weathers - I just can't have a car that isn't reliable for several months of the year so if they don't fix the charging port 100% I probably will switch before next winter.

How does it heat at -35? Or -45 for that matter. When the wind is blowing it sucks the heat out of everything. Not sure how cold it gets where you are. My concern is range in the cold. At -30 could I make a couple hour trip and back?
I realize this car is to low for any serious snow and I will use my trucks when it comes to that. We get those frozen ruts that tear up the bottoms of cars and I don't need any extra work.
I find it humorous that people think winter is the same everywhere. We have nordic trails here. But when it gets cold there is no skiing. If you lived here you would understand why.
And by cold I don't mean -15.

 

[StealthP3D]

How does it heat at -35? Or -45 for that matter. When the wind is blowing it sucks the heat out of everything.

See, that's what I'm talking about. Using extreme case temperatures and yet ignoring all the problems with ICE cars/trucks at those temperatures. Most ICE cars in the world won't even start at -35 to -45 degrees. But if they do, and the engine block is cold soaked, the heater takes forever to produce meaningful heat. Batteries give up the ghost, engine blocks freeze and crack, oil thickens into molasses, transmissions fail to shift, and exhaust headers crack. It's a real mess if your ICE car isn't specially prepared for those temperatures. But less than 1/10 of 1% of the world population ever sees those temperatures. Most people are smart enough to live somewhere where it doesn't get that cold. The coldest I've experienced was -25 or -30 but the windchill brought it down to -55 or -60. Anyone with half a brain just says "NO!".

The Model 3 has an electric heater with very low thermal mass compared to an engine block and gallons of coolant so it puts out heat almost immediately. And you don't have to worry about whether it's going to "start" in the morning. But I think Tesla's operating temperature range states something like no more than 24 hours below -20 F (or something like that, you should look it up if you live in the stupid cold). The batteries have a lower limit somewhere down around arctic temperatures. At those temperatures, it's stupid to park anything outside overnight! Even a snowmobile!

I'll say it again, less than 1/10th of 1% of the world ever sees temperatures that low. If you have a garage, it's workable, ICE or EV. If you don't, it's a huge problem regardless of ICE or EV.

 

[voip-ninja]

I know, right? Next post will be a pregnant woman going into labor when your charge port door decides to freeze shut! Or maybe you won the $150 million lottery but didn't realize it until you checked your ticket 1 hour before it expires and you need a charge to get to the Lotto office to claim your money. But your charge port door just happens to be frozen shut.

These are good scenarios to point out the trouble with gasoline cars in the very cold. Right when you need your car to start because you have a stroke victim in your car and you get the dreaded groan followed by "click-click". I think I'll go on ICE forums and warn them away from ICE cars. Oh wait, that won't work because everyone is already familiar with ICE cars and know that it rarely happens and it's just something you deal with. What do I know, I'm just a Model 3 owner who has been through multiple snow/ice storms and never found his charge port door frozen shut.

I've owned new German cars since 2000 and been active on those various forums.

I can't recall a single incident where someone reported that one wouldn't start or couldn't be fueled because it was cold.

What's surprising to me and others about this is that Tesla has a pretty sizable fleet already out in these climates made up of S/X cars... it's a bit disappointing that they didn't have a better handle on this stuff before the Model 3 was rolled out en masse.

Fortunately for me I'm in a cold weather area that's relatively low humidity and the temperatures only dip down below 0F a few times a year. My car gets garaged at both work and home so I don't have to deal with this crap. It would make me question taking the Model 3 on a multi-day trip to the mountains though.

 

[ModelNforNerd]

I've owned new German cars since 2000 and been active on those various forums.

I can't recall a single incident where someone reported that one wouldn't start or couldn't be fueled because it was cold.

What's surprising to me and others about this is that Tesla has a pretty sizable fleet already out in these climates made up of S/X cars... it's a bit disappointing that they didn't have a better handle on this stuff before the Model 3 was rolled out en masse.

Fortunately for me I'm in a cold weather area that's relatively low humidity and the temperatures only dip down below 0F a few times a year. My car gets garaged at both work and home so I don't have to deal with this crap. It would make me question taking the Model 3 on a multi-day trip to the mountains though.

Audi's refusal to offer remote start as an option always baffled me....at least on automatic transmissions.

 

[voip-ninja]

Audi's refusal to offer remote start as an option always baffled me....at least on automatic transmissions.

No German automaker makes remote starting available as a factory option. I believe it's related to European regulations and what they would have to do to accommodate the US/Canada market.

I'm personally not a fan of remote starting on ICE vehicles, I know people love turning their car on an hour before they need to leave so it's thawed out and toasty warm when they go but it's quite wasteful and creates a lot of unnecessary pollution.

 

[ItsNotAboutTheMoney]

Doesn't seem too mild. But yes more mild than SK. Still, not mild enough to avoid freezing.
View attachment 368282

Oslo - Wikipedia

It's certainly not severe winter weather.

 

[ricohman]

See, that's what I'm talking about. Using extreme case temperatures and yet ignoring all the problems with ICE cars/trucks at those temperatures. Most ICE cars in the world won't even start at -35 to -45 degrees. But if they do, and the engine block is cold soaked, the heater takes forever to produce meaningful heat. Batteries give up the ghost, engine blocks freeze and crack, oil thickens into molasses, transmissions fail to shift, and exhaust headers crack. It's a real mess if your ICE car isn't specially prepared for those temperatures. But less than 1/10 of 1% of the world population ever sees those temperatures. Most people are smart enough to live somewhere where it doesn't get that cold. The coldest I've experienced was -25 or -30 but the windchill brought it down to -55 or -60. Anyone with half a brain just says "NO!".

The Model 3 has an electric heater with very low thermal mass compared to an engine block and gallons of coolant so it puts out heat almost immediately. And you don't have to worry about whether it's going to "start" in the morning. But I think Tesla's operating temperature range states something like no more than 24 hours below -20 F (or something like that, you should look it up if you live in the stupid cold). The batteries have a lower limit somewhere down around arctic temperatures. At those temperatures, it's stupid to park anything outside overnight! Even a snowmobile!

I'll say it again, less than 1/10th of 1% of the world ever sees temperatures that low. If you have a garage, it's workable, ICE or EV. If you don't, it's a huge problem regardless of ICE or EV.

Say no? To what? Being born and raised in the north? I’ve raised my kids here as well. You think western Canadians have half a brain?
I wasn’t even asking you anything. I was asking another Canadian.
Most cars won’t start at -35? That’s laughable. I haven’t had a vehicle not start since the 1980s. The city closer to me has vehicles running on all cold days. Modern vehicles start at any temp we have here. Even my ancient FJ40 will. And since my shop is filled with projects all our vehicles live outside all year round.
I’ve got an old Focus wagon I use to haul my bikes around. It has 320,000 km and it has never failed me. I can leave that pile unplugged on the coldest nights and it starts.
You have an us vs them attitude. Think about this. Your EV was produced and is now supported by combustion vehicles. I enjoy both. My new F450 is incredible.
I don’t claim to be saving the world either. I also race bikes. As in bicycles. I cycle year round. I rode over 14,000 km last year and put only 1900 on my new truck. If you want to save the word even an EV has to many wheels.
Think you could ride that far living here? I love it here and won’t be moving anytime soon. I can drive an hour or so so to my uncles farm and get a moose. Which I recently did. Could I take a model 3 to do that? This is why both vehicles have their use. The model 3 would be used to transport people and groceries.
Please keep your one side view to yourself.

 

[StealthP3D]

Please keep your one side view to yourself.

No. I refuse to be censored by you. There's a reason it's called a "forum". You are not the only one with an opinion.

 

[voip-ninja]

No. I refuse to be censored by you. There's a reason it's called a "forum". You are not the only one with an opinion.

The problem I think is that you present your opinion as fact.

 

[ModelNforNerd]

No. I refuse to be censored by you. There's a reason it's called a "forum". You are not the only one with an opinion.

Flat Earthers have an opinion too.

 

[Xenoilphobe]

Popcorn time

 

[StealthP3D]

I'm personally not a fan of remote starting on ICE vehicles, I know people love turning their car on an hour before they need to leave so it's thawed out and toasty warm when they go but it's quite wasteful and creates a lot of unnecessary pollution.

I know, that's one of the best things about a Tesla. You can even pre-heat it in a cold garage without killing brain cells or people. And it only takes a few minutes since there's not a massive engine block to heat up. It really nice to get in a car that's all warm and defrosted without having to create a toxic cloud of cold-start emissions.

 

[ModelNforNerd]

I know, that's one of the best things about a Tesla. You can even pre-heat it in a cold garage without killing brain cells or people. And it only takes a few minutes since there's not a massive engine block to heat up. It really nice to get in a car that's all warm and defrosted without having to create a toxic cloud of cold-start emissions.

Oddly enough, the Germans' decision to not include it likely had nothing to do with the environment, because A: it's not like it was included back before being "green" was seen as something responsible companies did, and B: even when being green WAS something responsible companies did...the German OEMs were late to the game.

 

[voip-ninja]

Flat Earthers have an opinion too.

You left these guys out;

 

[StealthP3D]

Oddly enough, the Germans' decision to not include it likely had nothing to do with the environment, because A: it's not like it was included back before being "green" was seen as something responsible companies did, and B: even when being green WAS something responsible companies did...the German OEMs were late to the game.

The German regulation on remote start was likely due to human health and safety issues, not "being green". The fact that Tesla's can do this legally, safely and efficiently is just one reason of many why they are so nice to use in the winter.

 

[ModelNforNerd]

The German regulation on remote start was likely due to human health and safety issues, not "being green". The fact that Tesla's can do this legally, safely and efficiently is just one reason of many why they are so nice to use in the winter.

Again, no. I believe you may have missed my point.

It was a popular feature on many American cars until somewhat recently, once anti-idling laws became a trend.

But it was an available feature on many cars for the last 20 years. It wasn't added to German cars because it's illegal to leave a car running without an operator in it. That is true for remote start, and if you were to start the vehicle and walk away. In Germany, it is about security, not necessarily the environment.

 

[voip-ninja]

The German regulation on remote start was likely due to human health and safety issues, not "being green". The fact that Tesla's can do this legally, safely and efficiently is just one reason of many why they are so nice to use in the winter.

You have to weigh the various pros & cons of an EV being used in the winter.

Yes, being able to remotely start the climate control, even if the car is garaged, is a big plus, you are just exercising some electrons instead of creating a carbon monoxide cloud and burning fossil fuels.

The downsides though are substantial and you and @Garlan Garner have been too dismissive of them. People just want an honest conversation and you guys have been surprisingly defensive of Tesla and dismissive of legitimate cold weather criticisms;

• Charge port freezing (can't charge car)
• Massive hit to range
• automatic wipers are a joke in the snow (mine apparently don't know what snow looks like until enough of it builds up on the windscreen that it starts to melt and looks like rain).
• Door handles freezing
• Windows freezing

Whether this stuff is a non-issue, a minor annoyance, or a deal breaker pretty much depends on the usage the car gets, where the owner lives & drives & parks.

So maybe stop being so flippantly dismissive of it or insisting, laughably, that somehow, ICE cars that have been proven in over 100 years of use in severe climates are worse.