Model 3 + Snow Exposure = Frustration

[ricohman]

The German regulation on remote start was likely due to human health and safety issues, not "being green". The fact that Tesla's can do this legally, safely and efficiently is just one reason of many why they are so nice to use in the winter.

You think you are green, is that it? Greener than me with my combustion vehicles?
All because you drive an EV?
I grow my own vegetables in a half acre garden. I fill my freezer with wild meat that I butcher myself. My eggs come from my brothers chickens via barter. No trucks haul my main food supply around. I could go on and on about cycling year round but what is the point.
You are the greenest of them all because of your car.

 

[ModelNforNerd]

You have to weigh the various pros & cons of an EV being used in the winter.

Yes, being able to remotely start the climate control, even if the car is garaged, is a big plus, you are just exercising some electrons instead of creating a carbon monoxide cloud and burning fossil fuels.

The downsides though are substantial and you and @Garlan Garner have been too dismissive of them. People just want an honest conversation and you guys have been surprisingly defensive of Tesla and dismissive of legitimate cold weather criticisms;

• Charge port freezing (can't charge car)
• Massive hit to range
• automatic wipers are a joke in the snow (mine apparently don't know what snow looks like until enough of it builds up on the windscreen that it starts to melt and looks like rain).
• Door handles freezing
• Windows freezing

Whether this stuff is a non-issue, a minor annoyance, or a deal breaker pretty much depends on the usage the car gets, where the owner lives & drives & parks.

So maybe stop being so flippantly dismissive of it or insisting, laughably, that somehow, ICE cars that have been proven in over 100 years of use in severe climates are worse.

The major upside though, is that at least in my house.....my choices are my Tesla, or my wife's CVT Impreza.

I'm taking the Tesla 99 times out of 100.

Only time I wouldn't would be if the streets were for some reason unplowed, and I needed the extra 2" of ground clearance.

 

[ModelNforNerd]

You think you are green, is that it? Greener than me with my combustion vehicles?
All because you drive an EV?
I grow my own vegetables in a half acre garden. I fill my freezer with wild meat that I butcher myself. My eggs come from my brothers chickens via barter. No trucks haul my main food supply around. I could go on and on about cycling year round but what is the point.
You are the greenest of them all because of your car.

OH SNAP!!!!


A good ol' fashioned GREEN-OFF!!!!!

 

[voip-ninja]

You think you are green, is that it? Greener than me with my combustion vehicles?
All because you drive an EV?
I grow my own vegetables in a half acre garden. I fill my freezer with wild meat that I butcher myself. My eggs come from my brothers chickens via barter. No trucks haul my main food supply around. I could go on and on about cycling year round but what is the point.
You are the greenest of them all because of your car.

Come on now, moral superiority for choosing to drive an EV is the #1 reason to pick one for probably 1/3 of all of the people here.... and I've never met one of these morally superior folks who didn't fall down laughably in pretty much every other area you mention. In my experience the people who are the most self reliant (growing their own food, producing their own electricity, etc.) tend to be the ones who bellow about environmental impact of lifestyle the least.

Meanwhile you'll get treated to the shrieking hordes who go on and on about saving the planet by driving a $50,000 luxury car....

 

[StealthP3D]

You think you are green, is that it? Greener than me with my combustion vehicles?
All because you drive an EV?
I grow my own vegetables in a half acre garden. I fill my freezer with wild meat that I butcher myself. My eggs come from my brothers chickens via barter. No trucks haul my main food supply around. I could go on and on about cycling year round but what is the point.
You are the greenest of them all because of your car.

It looks like your purpose here is to disrupt the forum.

Because I never said I was green. I like electric cars because I don't have to breathe the cloud of toxic exhaust fumes. They smell bad, they are unpleasant and unhealthy. Especially in the winter with cold starts.

I'm proud of you and your garden but I buy all my produce in restaurants or from the markets. I prefer to let farmers grow it so I guess that makes me shameful in your world view? I suspect it's more about being a disruptive force in the forum though.

 

[ModelNforNerd]

It looks like your purpose here is to disrupt the forum.

Because I never said I was green. I like electric cars because I don't have to breathe the cloud of toxic exhaust fumes. They smell bad, they are unpleasant and unhealthy. Especially in the winter with cold starts.

I'm proud of you and your garden but I buy all my produce in restaurants or from the markets. I prefer to let farmers grow it so I guess that makes me shameful in your world view? I suspect it's more about being a disruptive force in the forum though.

To be fair, maybe it's the smug delivery of your point that had him defensive.

 

[ricohman]

It looks like your purpose here is to disrupt the forum.

Because I never said I was green. I like electric cars because I don't have to breathe the cloud of toxic exhaust fumes. They smell bad, they are unpleasant and unhealthy. Especially in the winter with cold starts.

I'm proud of you and your garden but I buy all my produce in restaurants or from the markets. I prefer to let farmers grow it so I guess that makes me shameful in your world view? I suspect it's more about being a disruptive force in the forum though.

You think I’m disrupting the forum now, just wait a few months. I’m no Tesla fan boy. Or a fan boy of any particular make. If something better comes along I’ll consider it no problem.

 

[voip-ninja]

It looks like your purpose here is to disrupt the forum.

Because I never said I was green. I like electric cars because I don't have to breathe the cloud of toxic exhaust fumes. They smell bad, they are unpleasant and unhealthy. Especially in the winter with cold starts.

I'm proud of you and your garden but I buy all my produce in restaurants or from the markets. I prefer to let farmers grow it so I guess that makes me shameful in your world view? I suspect it's more about being a disruptive force in the forum though.

Asking others to go away because you just got dunked on seems rather petulant.

As long as people are being respectful there is never any reason for someone to demand that someone leave because they aren't towing the party line.

 

[StealthP3D]

Asking others to go away because you just got dunked on seems rather petulant.

No one asked anyone to go away (but maybe they should). It looks like your purpose here is to disrupt the forum also. A tag team of sorts.

 

[StealthP3D]

You think I’m disrupting the forum now, just wait a few months. I’m no Tesla fan boy. Or a fan boy of any particular make. If something better comes along I’ll consider it no problem.

I hope you find something you like better.

 

[ModelNforNerd]

No one asked anyone to go away (but maybe they should). It looks like your purpose here is to disrupt the forum also. A tag team of sorts.

Elon has disrupted the automotive industry. Others want him to go away.

 

[StealthP3D]

To be fair, maybe it's the smug delivery of your point that had him defensive.

I think you mean "offensive", not defensive. At least the tone was very offensive.

 

[ModelNforNerd]

I think you mean "offensive", not defensive. At least the tone was very offensive.

Thanks for putting words into my mouth, thereby proving the point everyone has been trying to make.

 

[StealthP3D]

Elon has disrupted the automotive industry. Others want him to go away.

True, they not only want Elon to go away but anyone who spreads the word about how amazing his products are. Yes, including that they are fully suitable for use in winter or as a primary ski car.

 

[ModelNforNerd]

True, they not only want Elon to go away but anyone who spreads the word about how amazing his products are. Yes, including that they are fully suitable for use in winter or as a primary ski car.

To put this convo back on the rails.......

It is a nice car. It is very useful. It has flaws. All cars have flaws. This thread is about this particular car's flaws in winter. The points raised about said flaws were all valid points.

 

[felixculpas]

Come on now, moral superiority for choosing to drive an EV is the #1 reason to pick one for probably 1/3 of all of the people here.... and I've never met one of these morally superior folks who didn't fall down laughably in pretty much every other area you mention. In my experience the people who are the most self reliant (growing their own food, producing their own electricity, etc.) tend to be the ones who bellow about environmental impact of lifestyle the least.

Meanwhile you'll get treated to the shrieking hordes who go on and on about saving the planet by driving a $50,000 luxury car....

I honestly am not seeing people choosing EV's for moral superiority but here's a more positive thought.

Presuming someone buys an EV but isn't all that green otherwise, I think there is a high probability they will start embracing green concepts more. Once we make decisions, we tend to rationalize them and no easier way to rationalize your EV purchase by adopting other green measures as well. It's self reinforcing.

 

[StealthP3D]

It is a nice car. It is very useful. It has flaws. All cars have flaws. This thread is about this particular car's flaws in winter. The points raised about said flaws were all valid points.

I think a lot of the flaws were presented inaccurately. A few people here tried to say the car simply wasn't suitable for winter. That's certainly debatable but the thousands happily using it in a winter environment would strongly contradict that.

You are not the Judge and jury on what is said here, that's why it's a forum. To say all the points raised here about all the supposed flaws were ALL valid points (while contesting anyone who had a different experience) is ridiculous in the extreme.

 

[ricohman]

I honestly am not seeing people choosing EV's for moral superiority but here's a more positive thought.

Presuming someone buys an EV but isn't all that green otherwise, I think there is a high probability they will start embracing green concepts more. Once we make decisions, we tend to rationalize them and no easier way to rationalize your EV purchase by adopting other green measures as well. It's self reinforcing.

This is could be my wife. She is wasteful but I think an EV could get her to think differently. But posts like this have me thinking about this cars design flaws.
Washing Model 3 in below 32 degrees

 

[voip-ninja]

I honestly am not seeing people choosing EV's for moral superiority but here's a more positive thought.

Presuming someone buys an EV but isn't all that green otherwise, I think there is a high probability they will start embracing green concepts more. Once we make decisions, we tend to rationalize them and no easier way to rationalize your EV purchase by adopting other green measures as well. It's self reinforcing.

Well, I can't speak for anyone else but for me buying a Tesla has done exactly zero to make me more "environmentally conscious". Certainly I'm not going to forego flying on a gas-burning jet the next time I need to go somewhere more than a few hours away and I wouldn't bat an eyelash about taking our gas burning SUV somewhere if it's the better tool for the job.

I have 7,000 watts of solar on my house and I'm pretty good about recycling.

By comparison my much more progressive wife has zero problem throwing all of her recyclable crap in the trash and leaving every light on in the house 24 hours a day.

 

[ModelNforNerd]

I think a lot of the flaws were presented inaccurately. A few people here tried to say the car simply wasn't suitable for winter. That's certainly debatable but the thousands happily using it in a winter environment would strongly contradict that.

You are not the Judge and jury on what is said here, that's why it's a forum. To say all the points raised here about all the supposed flaws were ALL valid points (while contesting anyone who had a different experience) is ridiculous in the extreme.

You should take your own advice, passing judgement on others' posts. I don't have the time to deal with someone who is going to pontificate in the face of facts.

thisclose to being muted.