Model 3 SR+ LFP Battery Range, Degradation, etc Discussion

[Keninblaine]

6 weeks in here on my M3LR. I am getting between 255-275 range FWIW. I cannot understand for the life of me how they can advertise 350 or whatever they advertise. It's one of the very few things I'd complain about. For me honestly anything over 150 is probably fine. It's more the principal here...it's just so far beyond reality to say anything over 300 it's a bit upsetting.

The range numbers are a theoretical range for 100% of the battery capacity, used for comparison purposes. The reality of not charging to 100% and of not allowing the charge to fall much below 10% results in a real world range of the numbers you stated above.

I just completed a 4100 mile road trip in March, and typical distances between superchargers, based on using ABRP, were in the area of 150-230 miles, keeping in mind that it is quicker to stop 3 times in a day and charge up to 70% than to stop twice and charge up to 90%. BTW, I set my ABRP parameters to arriving at a Supercharger with no less than 12% and arriving at a destination with no less than 25%. The 12% gave me some cushion for the possibility of a higher-than-expected burn rate due to speed, head winds, etc. On one leg I had an inexplicable burn rate much higher than previous average, resulting in arriving at the next SC with only 9% charge. This causes on-screen warnings about reducing speed etc.

 

[fishacura]

The range numbers are a theoretical range for 100% of the battery capacity, used for comparison purposes. The reality of not charging to 100% and of not allowing the charge to fall much below 10% results in a real world range of the numbers you stated above.

I get that but it would still fall far short of the advertised range.

 

[pipp]

I get that but it would still fall far short of the advertised range.

I’m thinking that one reason you are posting this is so others with LR’s can offer the benefit of their experiences that might be helpful. But since LR’s don’t use LFP batteries, you might be robbing yourself of your best possible audience by posting in the LFP battery thread…I don’t think anybody minds much at all, but like I said, I wouldn’t expect a lot of LR owners to be checking this thread…

 

[3sr+buyer]

6 weeks in here on my M3LR. I am getting between 255-275 range FWIW. I cannot understand for the life of me how they can advertise 350 or whatever they advertise. It's one of the very few things I'd complain about. For me honestly anything over 150 is probably fine. It's more the principal here...it's just so far beyond reality to say anything over 300 it's a bit upsetting.

You might get better response in another thread or starting a new thread, since LR cars do not have LFP batteries that are the subject of this thread.

Assuming that 255-275 is what your actual range would be over 100% of the battery, what is your consumption (as displayed on the energy screen and in the trip data)?

 

[username123]

I’m starting to wonder if there’s something wrong with my car. Only 2 months and 2500km and my range already dropped from 439km to 429km

 

[AAKEE]

Have charged to 100% twice now and the display today says 274mi/100%. My question is whether this is the most it would ever show - is the potential 315mi for this spec never shown in the display - that’s a figure you may achieve by driving really efficiently but wouldn’t be shown in the display? Thanks.

It makes sense not to show the 315, as the only way you could get that would be to travel at about 45 mph on flat terrain with few stops and little wind resistance…the 274 reflects driving conditions that aren’t so abnormal.

No. The range figure at the battery is not dependent on the driving style, speed.
It is a energy meter showing the energy in the battery. When the miles(or km) is selected it still shows the energy content but by using the EPA test consumtion value to calculate the range.

If the EPA range is 315 mi, it would show 315 miles if the battery capacity was according to the spec.
Sometimes the battery management computer is a bit off, showing less range than the real battery capacity would show.

 

[pipp]

No. The range figure at the battery is not dependent on the driving style, speed.
It is a energy meter showing the energy in the battery. When the miles(or km) is selected it still shows the energy content but by using the EPA test consumtion value to calculate the range.

If the EPA range is 315 mi, it would show 315 miles if the battery capacity was according to the spec.
Sometimes the battery management computer is a bit off, showing less range than the real battery capacity would show.

I guess I wasn’t on the same page to begin with. I didn’t understand where the 315 came from, but I thoughtlessly and mistakenly assumed we were talking about an SR+ and started opining about how an SR+ could go 315 miles on a charge…

 

[Ruffus23]

 

[Tsl888]

I’m starting to wonder if there’s something wrong with my car. Only 2 months and 2500km and my range already dropped from 439km to 429km

I’m at 3000km and my battery tops out at 437km.

 

[RichAZ/CapeCod]

At the moment we drive a MY AWD LR. We have a M3 SR (LFP) on order (for July-Aug delivery. Don't laugh...). This car may sit for four or more months a year in a garage in AZ (snowbird). I plan on leaving the car at 50% SoC, plugged-in. Sound OK to you guys??

Rich

 

[3sr+buyer]

At the moment we drive a MY AWD LR. We have a M3 SR (LFP) on order (for July-Aug delivery. Don't laugh...). This car may sit for four or more months a year in a garage in AZ (snowbird). I plan on leaving the car at 50% SoC, plugged-in. Sound OK to you guys??

Plugged in with the charge level set to 50% seems like a reasonable long term storage method.

But when you return, you may want to charge it to 100% before driving it in order to ensure that the BMS is calibrated to the correct state-of-charge.

 

[pipp]

OK, so here is a question for my fellow lfp owners: right now I am charging about once every 12 days on my AlanSubie4Life Memorial Charging Station L2 charger. After charging 7 hours, the SOC gets to 100%, then I can drive another 12 days. I like it that way, having the cable strung out across my garage for 7 hours or so every 12 days or so, and then hung up around the hose which sits on a plastic hose-holder right next to the charging station outlet.

But I guess ideally, what I should do is keep the batteries as much as possible at a state of charge between 30% and 60%, so I should charge more often. That’s not really a problem, as far as I can see, because if I’m not on a road trip then 30% charge provides ample range for any of my typical daily needs.

Except theoretically, I’m also supposed to charge up to 100% regularly. So should I just stick with the charging plan I’m currently using, or should I do the 30% to 60% charging (which would entail more frequent charging), then every 2 weeks or so charge all the way up to 100% instead of 60%. Does it matter?

 

[3sr+buyer]

Except theoretically, I’m also supposed to charge up to 100% regularly. So should I just stick with the charging plan I’m currently using, or should I do the 30% to 60% charging (which would entail more frequent charging), then every 2 weeks or so charge all the way up to 100% instead of 60%. Does it matter?

Keeping the battery in the 30-60% range is probably better for longevity, but the lesser degradation of LFP batteries may make the incremental gain less worth it than with an NCA battery. The need to sometimes charge to 100% to keep the BMS calibrated to the LFP battery's voltage curve does mean more to remember (as in remembering to change the charge target as that needs) than just setting and forgetting.

One thing you can do with little effort is to use scheduled charging to finish just before you drive off, so that (when charging to 100%) the car is not parked at 100% for very long before some of the charge is used.

 

[Dave EV]

Your article is very interesting...the degradation chart shows that a million mile battery is not just a pipe dream but was actually delivered ten years ago...unless there is some sudden drop off or failure after 10 years / 200,000 miles

Tesla has some a number of different chemistries over the years - eg. Model S/X 85, 90, 100 cars all have different chemistries with different rates of capacity loss. Who knows what they have with the Model 3/Y, but at least we have the original 2018+ pack chemistry, LFP chemistry and, 2021+pack chemistry, LG cell chemistry and who knows what else. @wk057 has been testing the Model S/X cells and the original 85 kWh cells appear to be the best for long-term durability, early 90 kWh cells are horrible, 100 kWh cells are better, but still not as good as the 85 kWh cells in terms of durability.

https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/posts/6591099/

OK, so here is a question for my fellow lfp owners: right now I am charging about once every 12 days on my AlanSubie4Life Memorial Charging Station L2 charger. After charging 7 hours, the SOC gets to 100%, then I can drive another 12 days. I like it that way, having the cable strung out across my garage for 7 hours or so every 12 days or so, and then hung up around the hose which sits on a plastic hose-holder right next to the charging station outlet.

But I guess ideally, what I should do is keep the batteries as much as possible at a state of charge between 30% and 60%, so I should charge more often. That’s not really a problem, as far as I can see, because if I’m not on a road trip then 30% charge provides ample range for any of my typical daily needs.

Except theoretically, I’m also supposed to charge up to 100% regularly. So should I just stick with the charging plan I’m currently using, or should I do the 30% to 60% charging (which would entail more frequent charging), then every 2 weeks or so charge all the way up to 100% instead of 60%. Does it matter?

For the LFP cells, Tesla does recommend charging up to 100% weekly to help keep the BMS calibrated. If you are running through a cycle every 12 days, I would just keep what you are doing. Average SOC is going to be around 50-60% depending on how low you let the SOC get, and LFP cells usually have great cycle-durability as well.

 

[bin31z]

A point of reference. 2022 LFP model 3 charged to 100% every night has range go from 272 to 271 after 3500 miles.

 

[PianoAl]

I'm actually not too concerned about battery life degradation, but I've favored Scheduled Departure so that the battery spends a few hours less time at an SOC of 80% or 90%. Sometimes I leave early and drive a long way, so I set the target SOC to 90% and departure time at 7 AM. If at the end of that day (70 miles remaining ), I forget to change back to 80% and 9 AM departure time, it will start charging before midnight (start of cheap period).*

To make things simpler (and save the annoyance of sometimes charging at $.44/kWh), I could just tell it to start charging at midnight. As a result, the car would usually hit 80% and sometimes 90% at say, 3 AM, and sit at that SOC for six hours.

Should I stop trying to optimize things and instead go for simplicity?

*I charge at 22 MPH.

 

[jjrandorin]

Should I stop trying to optimize things and instead go for simplicity?

Yes (and this was moved to this thread because its about how to maintain battery health, which is also part of this thread).

 

[uberfunk]

I’m starting to wonder if there’s something wrong with my car. Only 2 months and 2500km and my range already dropped from 439km to 429km

Had owned my 2022 RWD since the end of January and my max charge is at 434 now (just went from 435 to 434 today without it being driven for a whole week). 2800km driven so far.

I opened a ticket a few weeks back because it had gone from 439 to 435 in 2 weeks and was also wondering if something was up and if I needed to calibrate it somehow. They remotely checked the battery and said nothing was wrong with it.

I noticed my battery max range started dropping as soon as I installed 2022.4.5.17


Will this stop dropping and normalize at some point? If so, how much more lower will it go??

 

[AAKEE]

Keeping the battery in the 30-60% range is probably better for longevity, but the lesser degradation of LFP batteries may make the incremental gain less worth it than with an NCA battery. The need to sometimes charge to 100% to keep the BMS calibrated to the LFP battery's voltage curve does mean more to remember (as in remembering to change the charge target as that needs) than just setting and forgetting.

One thing you can do with little effort is to use scheduled charging to finish just before you drive off, so that (when charging to 100%) the car is not parked at 100% for very long before some of the charge is used.

If I look at the charts at teslalogger.de for LFP vs the M3P 2021 I see about the same range loss if I extrapolate the numbers for, for example, 50000km. At leadt there is not a big difference.
Would be nice to know if most people charge to 100% once a week to keep the Bms on track.

The M3 SR+ LFP 2021 seem to head towards about 4% loss at 50000km

The older M3 SR+ LFP have lost about 5% at 40000km.

The M3P seem to have lost about 5% in average.

The regular SR+ with Nca seem to have lost about 8%.

My conclusion is that the latest LFP have not changed the resistance for calendar aging that much. Calendar aging still eats of the LFP’s about the same way as before.
This in turn calls for the good idea to follow your tip (that i marked bold in your post).

 

[username123]

Had owned my 2022 RWD since the end of January and my max charge is at 434 now (just went from 435 to 434 today without it being driven for a whole week). 2800km driven so far.

I opened a ticket a few weeks back because it had gone from 439 to 435 in 2 weeks and was also wondering if something was up and if I needed to calibrate it somehow. They remotely checked the battery and said nothing was wrong with it.

I noticed my battery max range started dropping as soon as I installed 2022.4.5.17


Will this stop dropping and normalize at some point? If so, how much more lower will it go??

Just yesterday I checked again and it was backup to 437km so I don’t think we should pay attention to that number as it varies so much. This week I did start leaving it unplugged more often and didnt charge it a couple of days whereas when it was at 429km I left it plugged in 24/7 since I WFH