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Model 3 SR+ LFP Battery Range, Degradation, etc Discussion

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My wife uses about 18% of the battery on her daily commute. Since LFP says to charge to 100% at least once a week, my routine is to take car to 100% on Sunday, so its ready to start the work week. I'm conflicted on the charging through the week. I read that lifetime charging cycles is 5,000 so I have been letting car draw down to about 40%, so no charging at all on Monday, Tuesday and Wednesday. So more or less charging two to three times a week, instead of 7 times a week. My thought was to reduce the number of cycles that would degrade the battery. On the other hand the owners manual also says leaving car plugged in is also good. So which is better, leaving car plugged in 7 days a week (7 cycles), or doing my routine to reduce charging cycles? Hence my conflict. We have only had the Model 3 Standard LFP 4 months with around 5,500 miles, but would love to know the thoughts on which charging routine is better. No discernable battery degradation noted so far in TeslaFi reports over the four months. Have only supercharged a few times, when away from home. Majority of charging is 16 amp level 1 in the garage, but I charge around 150 kw per month from free level 2 chargers. . . . .which reminds me of a second question - which is better on battery, 16 amp level 1 doing 2 KW an hour or level 2 doing 6 KW an hour?
 
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... I read that lifetime charging cycles is 5,000 so I have been letting car draw down to about 40%, so no charging at all on Monday, Tuesday and Wednesday. So more or less charging two to three times a week, instead of 7 times a week. ...
Don't feel like doing the math, but if you average a full cycle three times a week, that around 150 full cycles a year. Around thirty (30) years worth of battery life maybe??

At that rate of battery wear I think you'll "age-out" before you get to your full cycle life. Just my guess.

Rich
 
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My wife uses about 18% of the battery on her daily commute. Since LFP says to charge to 100% at least once a week, my routine is to take car to 100% on Sunday, so its ready to start the work week. I'm conflicted on the charging through the week. I read that lifetime charging cycles is 5,000 so I have been letting car draw down to about 40%, so no charging at all on Monday, Tuesday and Wednesday. So more or less charging two to three times a week, instead of 7 times a week. My thought was to reduce the number of cycles that would degrade the battery. On the other hand the owners manual also says leaving car plugged in is also good. So which is better, leaving car plugged in 7 days a week (7 cycles), or doing my routine to reduce charging cycles? Hence my conflict. We have only had the Model 3 Standard LFP 4 months with around 5,500 miles, but would love to know the thoughts on which charging routine is better. No discernable battery degradation noted so far in TeslaFi reports over the four months. Have only supercharged a few times, when away from home. Majority of charging is 16 amp level 1 in the garage, but I charge around 150 kw per month from free level 2 chargers. . . . .which reminds me of a second question - which is better on battery, 16 amp level 1 doing 2 KW an hour or level 2 doing 6 KW an hour?

Cycle means full cycle of 0 to 100%. You probably want to charge 30-50% each time for battery longevity and also to reduce wear/tear of the plug/charge port.
 
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My wife uses about 18% of the battery on her daily commute. Since LFP says to charge to 100% at least once a week, my routine is to take car to 100% on Sunday, so its ready to start the work week. I'm conflicted on the charging through the week. I read that lifetime charging cycles is 5,000 so I have been letting car draw down to about 40%, so no charging at all on Monday, Tuesday and Wednesday. So more or less charging two to three times a week, instead of 7 times a week. My thought was to reduce the number of cycles that would degrade the battery. On the other hand the owners manual also says leaving car plugged in is also good. So which is better, leaving car plugged in 7 days a week (7 cycles), or doing my routine to reduce charging cycles? Hence my conflict. We have only had the Model 3 Standard LFP 4 months with around 5,500 miles, but would love to know the thoughts on which charging routine is better. No discernable battery degradation noted so far in TeslaFi reports over the four months. Have only supercharged a few times, when away from home. Majority of charging is 16 amp level 1 in the garage, but I charge around 150 kw per month from free level 2 chargers. . . . .
Depending on how much you want to micro-manage I would opt one of two options:
1. Charge to 100% once you are low enough that you want to recharge (20-40% remaining) every 2-3 days.
2. Charge to 100% once a week, the remaining days charge to 60% once you hit your low charge threshold.

which reminds me of a second question - which is better on battery, 16 amp level 1 doing 2 KW an hour or level 2 doing 6 KW an hour?
No difference between the two in terms of capacity loss. Some studies have shown that slower rates are worse than faster rates of L2 because you can start L2 later so the battery spends less time at high SOC.
 
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My daily commute is 10kms, 5 days a week. Car stays at home on weekends.
Car won’t be down on battery in one week, do I wait to a low SOC, say 20%? to charge up full?
From what I gather, the 100% weekly charge is to balance the BMS, and is not detrimental to the battery pack. I should not be bothered it giving a wrong reading since I charge at 20%?
Thanks.
 
My daily commute is 10kms, 5 days a week. Car stays at home on weekends.
Car won’t be down on battery in one week, do I wait to a low SOC, say 20%? to charge up full?
From what I gather, the 100% weekly charge is to balance the BMS, and is not detrimental to the battery pack. I should not be bothered it giving a wrong reading since I charge at 20%?
Thanks.
I drive similar milege like you. I charge to 100% at least once a Week. Sometimes around 60% sometmes around 50% to 100%. Just make sure not to keep at 100% SOC for long period of time.
 
I'm interested to know at what temps the BMS start to cool the LFP battery inside the model 3.
Bjorn Nyland captured this information using Scan My Tesla with OBD:

Can you please explain the following:
1. What is "PT" ?
2. Is "bat" = battery?
3. How is passive cooling accomplished?
4. Just to make sure, when it says "Target bat ActiveCool = 46c" it means that active cooling for the battery starts at 46 degrees celsius?

Thanks!
 
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Is 100% a definite value? I charge to 100% at work and sits at 98% after my commute home. Technically I’m good or still a high SOC?
The higher the SOC the higher the degradation from time.
98% is probably close to 100% when it comes to calendar aging. Still, the batteries will probably hold up long.
What we can affect by using lower SOC when the cars is not used is to lower the degradation = keep the range higher.

We can see below that from about 80% SOC the calendar aging is high.
This picture is from research of LFP batteries a couple of year back or so.
Its possible that the calendar aging is (slightly) lower on the newest LFP’s that SR/SR+ use. The physics behind calendar aging is not changed so its very likely that the basic curve is the same still rendering 80% and above as ”high”.


44AD4310-94AD-407F-90F2-B85AC1D28B2A.jpeg
 
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The higher the SOC the higher the degradation from time.
98% is probably close to 100% when it comes to calendar aging. Still, the batteries will probably hold up long.
What we can affect by using lower SOC when the cars is not used is to lower the degradation = keep the range higher.

We can see below that from about 80% SOC the calendar aging is high.
This picture is from research of LFP batteries a couple of year back or so.
Its possible that the calendar aging is (slightly) lower on the newest LFP’s that SR/SR+ use. The physics behind calendar aging is not changed so its very likely that the basic curve is the same still rendering 80% and above as ”high”.


View attachment 799050
What’s the best practice then? I can’t charge to full once a week to balance the BMS with short commutes. Let it sit at 55% regularly and don’t bother about BMS calibrating?
 
What’s the best practice then? I can’t charge to full once a week to balance the BMS with short commutes. Let it sit at 55% regularly and don’t bother about BMS calibrating?
I do not have a car with LFP so i havent bottomed it out.

I would say that there is a reason for Teslas 100% once a week, so that should be followed. Cheating from this and find out that the BMS was wrong and getting stranded on the road is probably not fun.

I would think like this:
1) Follow Teslas advice. The battery will be fine. Accept that batteries of today degrade from time.
2) If you still would like to minimize degradation, follow the 1) advice but charge just before the car is used( = minimize time at high SOC).
3) If you do not have the possibility to keep the average SOC low due to no charger at home or very little miles, you’re at 1) only.
If that’s the case, accept and do not worry.
 
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We use the car as our primary source of video games. When i arrive home after charging to 100%. we now have a solid hour of video games and car entertainment with heat cranked. Runs the battery down surprisingly quickly. from 100% to close to 90%
 
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BMS inaccuracy in estimating the actual state of charge may also manifest itself in inaccurate estimates of time needed to charge to the specified target.

If using departure time charging (i.e. charging to be ready by a specified time), this can result in not actually reaching the desired charge level at the departure time. For example, if you had previously recharged to a level lower than 100%, then use departure time charging to 100%, it may only be at 98% or some such at or even later than the departure time.
 
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BMS inaccuracy in estimating the actual state of charge may also manifest itself in inaccurate estimates of time needed to charge to the specified target.

If using departure time charging (i.e. charging to be ready by a specified time), this can result in not actually reaching the desired charge level at the departure time. For example, if you had previously recharged to a level lower than 100%, then use departure time charging to 100%, it may only be at 98% or some such at or even later than the departure time.
Very good point!

I did not think of this before, but it’s fore sure true!
 
Does anyone know how accurate ABRP is regarding supper charge times for the 2022 LFP? I'm planning a 3500 mile road trip and running lots of scenarios through ABRP to plan the trip. BTW - the default reference consumption for the 2002 LFP model in ABRP is 247 Wh/mi @ 65mph. My last trip from San Jose to Reno and back (including up and over Donner Pass) and traveling 70-80mph yielded 220 Wh/mi average for the trip, so their default consumption rate appears to be pretty conservative. But at least I can change the consumption rate in the settings, don't know of a way to adjust the charge rate in ABRP.
 
Does anyone know how accurate ABRP is regarding supper charge times for the 2022 LFP? I'm planning a 3500 mile road trip and running lots of scenarios through ABRP to plan the trip. BTW - the default reference consumption for the 2002 LFP model in ABRP is 247 Wh/mi @ 65mph. My last trip from San Jose to Reno and back (including up and over Donner Pass) and traveling 70-80mph yielded 220 Wh/mi average for the trip, so their default consumption rate appears to be pretty conservative. But at least I can change the consumption rate in the settings, don't know of a way to adjust the charge rate in ABRP.
Just a guess: As ABRP is quite good on the consumtion part, they probqbly is good on the charging speed as well. I guess that you need to navigate with the planned charging sessions to allow the preheating to reach full preaheating.

If the car has stock wheels etc, juat change the speed as you plan to drive in the settings, and keep the reference comsumtion at least as long as the reference comsumption is not proven wrong. ABRP seems to have good values.

Edit:
Took my last trip and putvin the relevant data: spot on, but the supercharge session was just a short one.

Teslafi show what actually happened:
16BB083C-ACAE-433B-B776-F72876EAC792.jpeg


ABRP with the actual temperature etc put in
FC7DAB93-6016-4878-BB4A-F961B0D3B7B8.jpeg


The charging session took 6 minutes, 22-45%.
ABRP estimates 6 minutes 22-44%.
Good enough, at least on a M3P with the 82kWh battery.
I added the speed +10% which should be close to the speed used and the consumption is within 1% after 100km which is also good.
 
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20,000 mile (32,000 km) update for my Sep 2021 SR+ LFP. The car is now about 9 months old and was originally rated at 253 miles on a full charge. The Tessie app shows a battery capacity of 53.1 kWh (down 2.8% from my original 23 Oct 2021 post of 54.6 kWh), and a max range of 246 miles (down 2.8% from my original post of 253 miles). I've had Tessie since my first day or two or ownership, so this data shows the entire life of the car.

1652108546259.png


According to the car's screen, I'm now averaging 220 Wh/mi over the life of the car (up from 219 during the 15,000 mile update). Assuming I could tap into the listed 53.1 kWh battery at my lifetime average 220 Wh/mi efficiency, that gives me a range of 241.3 miles. My Wh/mi figures went up over the last couple weeks during a long road trip with a lot of interstate driving. I suspect my real-world range should be better in my next update.

1652108506472.png


My charging is mostly Level 2 from a Grizzl-E on a 40 amp circuit in my garage, delivering 32 amps to the car. I charge most nights, but as I've posted here before I try to max out at 70-80% a most of the time, with a 100% charge once a week or as needed. I did have to Supercharge exclusively for a 3 week period in March when my on-board charger ECU failed. I also did a lot of Supercharging on the aforementioned road trip.

Tessie says I've spent $598.87 on electricity for the life of the car, while the same driving in my old Ford Focus would've cost $2,491.62 in gasoline. So my fuel costs have been 24% compared to keeping my old car (up from 18% last time due to all the Supercharging I did on my recent road trip). Assuming the average US emissions of 0.85 pounds CO2 per kWh, the 4,833 kWh used while driving equates to 4,108 pounds of CO2 spent driving my Tesla. If I'd kept my 2012 Ford Focus (37mpg), I would've used 547 gallons of gas to travel these 20,272 miles. At about 19 pounds of CO2 per gallon, that would've been 10,393 pounds of CO2. So I'm spewing 39% of the carbon emissions than I would've released in my efficient little Focus. As the grid moves toward more renewables, that should only get better over the life of the car.

I'll try to post another update at 25,000 miles. Should have a good stretch of hot-weather commuting on the car during that time, so I'm expecting my numbers to be even better.
 
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220 Wh/mi is phenominal. I'm getting around 260-270 Wh/mi in my '18 LR RWD, I wish I could get some of the efficiency updates into my car! I Besides the heat pump, I wonder what else they've done along the way...

Edit: Read your road trip post, your highway efficiency may be similar to mine, I typically range from 240-300 Wh/mi on the freeway at 70-80 mph. But to average 220 Wh/mi lifetime and still average 231 Wh/mi over the trip you must either typically cruise a lot slower or newer cars are really that much more efficient...
 
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