Model 3 SR+ LFP Battery Range, Degradation, etc Discussion

[kaimanson]

Yeah for sure but yeah it doesn't seem too bad 30 mi loss after 52,000 miles let's say the average driver only drives 13,000 miles a year that would be four and a half years about let's just say 4 years so losing about seven or eight mile range per year it seems quite reasonable

I don't even have a Tesla yet, but I have been reading quite a lot to educate myself about it. For what I have read, NCA should loose about 10-12% the first couple of years then it will stay steady but will still degrade slowly, on the other hand LFP will loose 2-3% then stay steady then it will degrade slowly but not as fast NCA. I was thinking about changing from a RWD to a LR...but knowing that I keep my vehicles for a long time I rather keep the RWD, even though the wait is long.

 

[Nezz]

For those lurking, here's what you can expect in the first 6 months of LFP battery degradation. This is from 272mi in December 2021 to 266.4 mi in July 2022 or about 2% loss.

 

[Ther0ck]

For those lurking, here's what you can expect in the first 6 months of LFP battery degradation. This is from 272mi in December 2021 to 266.4 mi in July 2022 or about 2% loss.

View attachment 827499

Are you charging to 100% all the time ?

 

[Nezz]

Are you charging to 100% all the time ?

I am charging to 100% probably once per two weeks and spend most of the time between 40% and 70%. I've charged probably 500 miles on supercharger with a handful to 100%.

 

[rudythecar]

For those lurking, here's what you can expect in the first 6 months of LFP battery degradation. This is from 272mi in December 2021 to 266.4 mi in July 2022 or about 2% loss.

View attachment 827499

Here are my graphs from teslamate, projected range vs milage (in km) and projected range vs battery level. So similar to your the first drop seems to happen around 1700km (~1000 miles).

 

[vsg055]

So I have a 2 month old SR+ (LFP). I charge to 100% all the time. My range is now 435km ( when I bought it was 438 EPA). I have done 7000 KM in total. Around 1000 km of supercharging and rest at home/level 2 chargers. Is the 3km range loss due to battery degradation or I need to recalibrate the BMS to get that back?

 

[Ther0ck]

So I have a 2 month old SR+ (LFP). I charge to 100% all the time. My range is now 435km ( when I bought it was 438 EPA). I have done 7000 KM in total. Around 1000 km of supercharging and rest at home/level 2 chargers. Is the 3km range loss due to battery degradation or I need to recalibrate the BMS to get that back?

Put it in % and don't worry about it. Look at the energy graph. That's where you get the real time km left on a charge.

I'm down to 430km

 

[Rocky_H]

Is the 3km range loss due to battery degradation or I need to recalibrate the BMS to get that back?

It's three freaking kilometers. That is 6 TENTHS of a percent! The measurements aren't that precise, so that's in the noise level. It might be different on a Tuesday than it is on a Friday.

 

[vsg055]

It's three freaking kilometers. That is 6 TENTHS of a percent! The measurements aren't that precise, so that's in the noise level. It might be different on a Tuesday than it is on a Friday.

Did you read my question? I am not concerned about the 3km. What I want to know is that whether that is supposedly a degradation or the calibration issue.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

Did you read my question? I am not concerned about the 3km. What I want to know is that whether that is supposedly a degradation or the calibration issue.

Could be either.

All this tells you is that the BMS is estimating that your energy is below the degradation threshold (starts out slightly above, typically). There’s really no way to know whether the BMS is just a bit off or whether it is capacity loss for such a small shift.

Once you get to 5-10% loss you can be more confident you have some capacity loss.

 

[nvesprini]

Hi all. Apologies if this is the wrong place to post, please redirect as needed.

It's my understanding that NCA batteries shouldn't be discharged below a certain % and kept there for extended periods ....at least in terms of maximizing longevity to the battery.

Does this also apply to the LFP batteries and if so what is the lower % limit to try to avoid? TIA

 

[3sr+buyer]

It's my understanding that NCA batteries shouldn't be discharged below a certain % and kept there for extended periods ....at least in terms of maximizing longevity to the battery.

Does this also apply to the LFP batteries and if so what is the lower % limit to try to avoid? TIA

Presuming you mean something like M + V, where M is the minimum to drive to where the car can be plugged in (0% or 1% if already next to a charging plug) and V is the vampire drain over the extended period, if not plugged in. (Although if plugged in, the lowest charge level you can set is 50% in the UI.)

Have not heard of this being different for NCA versus LFP batteries.

 

[nvesprini]

Presuming you mean something like M + V, where M is the minimum to drive to where the car can be plugged in (0% or 1% if already next to a charging plug) and V is the vampire drain over the extended period, if not plugged in. (Although if plugged in, the lowest charge level you can set is 50% in the UI.)

Have not heard of this being different for NCA versus LFP batteries.

Was more wondering if it's damaging to let the car sit for a day or so at something like 5 or 10%. Destination won't have a lb 1 or 2 charger available until about a day after arrival

 

[amit_gunner]

Was more wondering if it's damaging to let the car sit for a day or so at something like 5 or 10%. Destination won't have a lb 1 or 2 charger available until about a day after arrival

Why would you reach a destination with 5% soc where you dont have lv1 or lv2 options ..even if its a day after ? I would charge it up before reaching where my soc would be at least close to 30% or higher. Just in case for any emergency .

 

[3sr+buyer]

Was more wondering if it's damaging to let the car sit for a day or so at something like 5 or 10%. Destination won't have a lb 1 or 2 charger available until about a day after arrival

Unless your vampire drain is so much that it drains the charge level down to below that needed to drive to a charging location, it is hard to see why that would be a problem. Indeed, batteries do better if parked at low state of charge than high state of charge, although if you have an LFP battery and have not charged to 100% in a while, the BMS may have lost the true state of charge (so an indicated 5% may be significantly less than 5%).

Vampire drain of 5% in a day seems like an extreme outlier on the upper end.

 

[AAKEE]

Hi all. Apologies if this is the wrong place to post, please redirect as needed.

It's my understanding that NCA batteries shouldn't be discharged below a certain % and kept there for extended periods ....at least in terms of maximizing longevity to the battery.

Does this also apply to the LFP batteries and if so what is the lower % limit to try to avoid? TIA

Most lithium batteries is happier the lower the SOC is, down to 0% ( 0% SOC is the minimum allowed voltage during discharge).

The picture below show the calendar aging vs SOC and temperature.
The lower the SOC, the lover the degradation.
There is no danger in going down to 0% on the screen for neither NCA or LFP.

 

[AAKEE]

Why would you reach a destination with 5% soc where you dont have lv1 or lv2 options ..even if its a day after ? I would charge it up before reaching where my soc would be at least close to 30% or higher. Just in case for any emergency .

Was more wondering if it's damaging to let the car sit for a day or so at something like 5 or 10%. Destination won't have a lb 1 or 2 charger available until about a day after arrival

Low SOC is good for the battery.
The ”Bad below 20%” is a myth.

 

[3sr+buyer]

Low SOC is good for the battery.
The ”Bad below 20%” is a myth.

Low state of charge could be bad for some drivers, because they may incorrectly estimate how much they are likely to use before the next charging opportunity and run out completely. Most drivers are not so well attuned to how their driving affects consumption that they are willing to drive down to 1% or 0% as they park next to where they will recharge the car. So probably most drivers will recharge when the car is below 20% due to range anxiety, but that is more for the driver than the car.

 

[karlos22]

4 month old RWD, 8000km showing 433km @ 100%.

Charging habits are not regular as I charge at work, but usually 100% every 1-2 weeks. Mostly level 2 charging with some supercharging on road trips. If I do have to DC charge I don't precondition to keep the rate low (I hate it when the car charges too quickly anyway).

I am far from a battery expert, but my uninformed opinion is that with the 5% top buffer on the LFP, charging to 100% shouldn't be too harmful. I just do it once a week or so and forget about it, although I do try and drive it right away if possible. I'll typically try and keep the car between 30-90% at other times, as long as it is convenient.

TLDR; don't overthink it.

 

[AAKEE]

4 month old RWD, 8000km showing 433km @ 100%.

Charging habits are not regular as I charge at work, but usually 100% every 1-2 weeks. Mostly level 2 charging with some supercharging on road trips. If I do have to DC charge I don't precondition to keep the rate low (I hate it when the car charges too quickly anyway).

I am far from a battery expert, but my uninformed opinion is that with the 5% top buffer on the LFP, charging to 100% shouldn't be too harmful. I just do it once a week or so and forget about it, although I do try and drive it right away if possible. I'll typically try and keep the car between 30-90% at other times, as long as it is convenient.

TLDR; don't overthink it.

LFP’s is not sensitive to big cycles, and thereby not to charge to 100%.

Still, I would guess that preconditioning should help reduce the stress from Supercharging.