This post makes a series of unsubstantiated claims in order to crap all over the thread. Not withstanding the fact that most threads on this site deserve to be crapped on, this post has little or no merit.
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Model 3 SR+ showing 166 miles at 80% charge.. is that right?
- Thread starter RockandGrohl
- Start date
oneformula@gma
Member
1st, this post is my favorite of the thread. thank you.
2nd, okay, let me substantiate..... all modern ICE vehicles can show DTE, distance to empty, in miles and kilometers. all of them. even most ICE motorcycles.
AlanSubie4Life
Efficiency Obsessed Member
This is really easy to do and it really doesn't have anything to do with EVs. You just never saw it or cared about it in an ICE.
What speeds are you going?
Don't think that speed matters in a ICE? Then what's the hypermile culture about?
The problem is that kWh doesn't equal miles. The newer owners with huge amounts of range anxiety and Excel spreadsheets are seeing an EV as a Datamine extravaganza.
I know that percent is just about as close, but to a lot of people, percents are somewhat ambiguous as well as (regrettably) there are a lot of people that really don't understand them.
I kind of wish that there was just a 0, 1/4, 1/2, 3/4, and full indicator. It would calm so many people down.
I believe that technically it is "MANY" ICE vehicles can show an "ESTIMATED" distance to empty.
Everyone knew that the car's estimate was an estimate, For some reason they expect an EVs to be fact.
Now I'm even more confused than when I learned where babies came from. Thanks for trying though!!
Translated. The guage on the main screen always lies.
The energy graph tries to tell you reality.
The percentage doesn't lie... it just doesn't account for battery degradation, so the value of 1% decreases over time. It's still a good indicator of the percent of energy remaining of the battery's total capacity at the given point in time.
SageBrush
REJECT Fascism
Even if true, the "better" DTE accuracy only reflects the status of being an energy guzzler.
oneformula@gma
Member
well, it is true.
also true: miles remaining on all EVs is incredibly more accurate than miles remaining on ICE motorcycles. no computer can guess wind, your future speed, etc. and motorcycles have the worst aerodynamics of anything on the freeway
I'd like to contribute my own anecdotal experience here even though this thread may have wandered slightly off-topic.
Many years ago my wife and I drove a Pontiac Grand Am that was nearly 20 years old and whose gas gauge was peculiarly dysfunctional... it would only go down to about 25%. When the gas gauge showed 25%, it was empty.
One day we we're driving with the gauge very close to that 25% and I decided to press on, passing a gas station (that I didn't like) and expecting to make it to another gas station a few miles ahead.
Well I was wrong... we stalled, and I spent hours walking on a hot day back and forth to a gas station TWO TIMES because the car wouldn't start after the first pour from a red plastic gas can. As it turned out, running dry had burned out the fuel pump. A tow, a few rides from friends, a day of waiting, a mechanic, and $400 made everything right again. Lesson learned.
Fast forward to today... a few months into owning my Model 3 and upon heading back home from a neighboring city, the navigation pegged me as arriving at the Supercharger at -1%. It was a bad feeling... especially knowing that I couldn't simply walk to a gas station and fill up a can. Having been educated by these forums, I knew to shut off the A/C and slow down, so I did that.
Slowly but surely, the navigation battery estimate at arrival crept up to 0%, and then 1%... and I actually arrived at the Supercharger with the stated 1% remaining.
That whole situation could have been avoided had I paid more attention to my driving that day and actually considered how much energy I needed to get home. Lesson learned. AND range anxiety totally gone.
Many years ago my wife and I drove a Pontiac Grand Am that was nearly 20 years old and whose gas gauge was peculiarly dysfunctional... it would only go down to about 25%. When the gas gauge showed 25%, it was empty.
One day we we're driving with the gauge very close to that 25% and I decided to press on, passing a gas station (that I didn't like) and expecting to make it to another gas station a few miles ahead.
Well I was wrong... we stalled, and I spent hours walking on a hot day back and forth to a gas station TWO TIMES because the car wouldn't start after the first pour from a red plastic gas can. As it turned out, running dry had burned out the fuel pump. A tow, a few rides from friends, a day of waiting, a mechanic, and $400 made everything right again. Lesson learned.
Fast forward to today... a few months into owning my Model 3 and upon heading back home from a neighboring city, the navigation pegged me as arriving at the Supercharger at -1%. It was a bad feeling... especially knowing that I couldn't simply walk to a gas station and fill up a can. Having been educated by these forums, I knew to shut off the A/C and slow down, so I did that.
Slowly but surely, the navigation battery estimate at arrival crept up to 0%, and then 1%... and I actually arrived at the Supercharger with the stated 1% remaining.
That whole situation could have been avoided had I paid more attention to my driving that day and actually considered how much energy I needed to get home. Lesson learned. AND range anxiety totally gone.
If I'm not mistaken, it had probably be showing "Slow down to reach your destination" warnings which I thought start when the car is t 5-10% anticipated charge at your destination.
The A/C doesn't really do much, but slowing down does a huge amount, after all, for about ever 5 mph above 65, you decrease the range by 10%.
Happened to us this weekend, the car was showing 1-2% arriving home, but we knew the roads and while we were going over mountains, we weren't going to be doing 70 mph and we arrived home (along with a quick detour) at over 15%.
The navigation system is quite conservative. When it says it will get you there, it will.
Had another situation a few years ago where the car would not go a path that we've been numerous times. Talked to another family at a Supercharger and they said the same thing. Nothing I could do would get us on that track.
After checking Plugshare.com we found out that the Supercharger was out of service.
The guess-o-meter showing remaining miles estimated from recent consumption is in the energy screen.
The remaining miles shown at the top of the screen is rated miles (basically a higher resolution of the percentage display) that does not change based on recent consumption.
SageBrush
REJECT Fascism
Yes, although the GOM in the energy screen uses a lot more than recent consumption data. It knows your fixed consumptions (like AC), the upcoming topography, your driving speed relative to the upcoming speed limits and it has wind data. It is crazy accurate.
All the driver has to do is choose the destination, then listen to the car if it tells you to slow down or stop for extra charge.
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A couple more thoughts on this...
First, when doing a comparison between EPA mpg and range in ICE vs. Electric vehicles it is important to understand how a small difference in energy usage impacts it.
In an ICE vehicle you have a massive gas tank with an insane amount of energy. Driving slightly more aggressive is going to have a much smaller impact on your overall range. In an electric car you have a relatively small amount of energy available (roughly 2.3-2.5 gallons worth of electricity). So any range killing conditions will have a much more dramatic impact on total range.
Regarding research and shopping - I think this is where the Tesla service center folks need to be very clear with people. Looking at maximum range isn't particularly useful. A prospective buyer should consider their normal daily commute and I would say purchase a car with a range that is nearly double that. For example if you drive 150 miles daily I don't think I'd recommend anything but a 300+ mile range vehicle. The reasons, as others have mentioned are because: A) real world range can vary wildly and B) battery degradation is a real thing.
One point many people probably don't consider is that trying to use the maximum capacity of your battery will degrade your battery faster, and perpetuate the problem. The max range isn't meant to be a daily commute number. In that case you'll be charging your battery to 100% (not great for it) and discharging it (also not great for it) and putting a lot more full charge cycles on it (also not great).
First, when doing a comparison between EPA mpg and range in ICE vs. Electric vehicles it is important to understand how a small difference in energy usage impacts it.
In an ICE vehicle you have a massive gas tank with an insane amount of energy. Driving slightly more aggressive is going to have a much smaller impact on your overall range. In an electric car you have a relatively small amount of energy available (roughly 2.3-2.5 gallons worth of electricity). So any range killing conditions will have a much more dramatic impact on total range.
Regarding research and shopping - I think this is where the Tesla service center folks need to be very clear with people. Looking at maximum range isn't particularly useful. A prospective buyer should consider their normal daily commute and I would say purchase a car with a range that is nearly double that. For example if you drive 150 miles daily I don't think I'd recommend anything but a 300+ mile range vehicle. The reasons, as others have mentioned are because: A) real world range can vary wildly and B) battery degradation is a real thing.
One point many people probably don't consider is that trying to use the maximum capacity of your battery will degrade your battery faster, and perpetuate the problem. The max range isn't meant to be a daily commute number. In that case you'll be charging your battery to 100% (not great for it) and discharging it (also not great for it) and putting a lot more full charge cycles on it (also not great).
Don't assume, go look at the numbers, this really isn't the case. In most cases, the ranges between the different vehicles are similar.
And while I was about to say that the energies between the two or the same, while the used energies are near the same, the available energies indeed favor the ICE considerably.
The problem is that the ICE is only good at converting less than 20% of the energy into something useful.
Heck in an ICE, your range just naturally decreases, and you don't think about it. Ever hear of a thing called a tune-up?
In an ICE you have years of experience and don't think about the efficiency or range. In an EV it's something new to YOU and you worry about it.
I've been driving an EV for 8 years now. I don't think about it. And luckily, I don't forget about oil changes and tune-ups anymore either.
SageBrush
REJECT Fascism
Some relative proportion ? The absolute numbers are easily 3x different, due to the differences in efficiency between ICE and motor
oneformula@gma
Member
it is funny because gasoline holds a lot more energy by mass than batteries, but combustion engines are far less efficient than electric motors.
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