Model 3 Supercharge Throttling? To buy or not to buy.

[Kamixus]

Hi all,

I was scheduled to pick up my Model 3 LR next week, but due to COVID-19 all stores were shut down. This gave me some time to do more research and eventually stumbled on an issue that started in 2017 where several Model S owners reported that Supercharging was throttled after x number of charges using the Supercharger.

For me, this may be a deal breaker because I do not have a home charging solution at the moment and will rely heavily on Superchargers as a main source of power. After combing through quite a number of threads (including the 115 page thread here on TMC), I still don't have a definitive answer. Battery degradation is a given... but throttling Superchargers would technically render the vehicle useless to me.

Question: Are Model 3s throttled after x number of supercharges? Is there any documentation from Tesla that details how this works?

 

[vsansal]

There is this one owner in the Facebook model 3 owners group, he is over 100K miles. I think he is up to 110K or so now. He claims he is supercharging several times a week and not only that, he charges frequently to 100. He claims no issues with supercharging speeds. He seems to be still getting 299 miles of rated range after all this abuse. I believe he owns a LRRWD. I haven't heard anyone with a model 3 complaining about throttling.

Here is a video about that owner

There is a link to the group in the video. You can reach out to the user directly if you like.

 

[Matsayz]

I wouldn’t put too much thought into this. The bigger problem is you won’t want o hit the SuperChargers as it’s annoying to sit there when you’ve got stuff to do.

What’s the hold up on getting a charger installed at home? Depending on your area it can be $200-1000 with or without permits/inspections. If you can’t charge at home, even a regular 120v house outlet... then maybe it’s not time for an EV just yet. I did a combo of 120v at home charging at 4-5mph of charge and then hitting the local SC for a couple months before we moved and it sucks. Getting a 240v installed makes a world of a difference (30-33mph charge).

Need more facts on your situation to help you but really, I don’t think you’ll see throttling if this is the vehicle you choose.

 

[jjrandorin]

Hi all,

I was scheduled to pick up my Model 3 LR next week, but due to COVID-19 all stores were shut down. This gave me some time to do more research and eventually stumbled on an issue that started in 2017 where several Model S owners reported that Supercharging was throttled after x number of charges using the Supercharger.

For me, this may be a deal breaker because I do not have a home charging solution at the moment and will rely heavily on Superchargers as a main source of power. After combing through quite a number of threads (including the 115 page thread here on TMC), I still don't have a definitive answer. Battery degradation is a given... but throttling Superchargers would technically render the vehicle useless to me.

Question: Are Model 3s throttled after x number of supercharges? Is there any documentation from Tesla that details how this works?

I am always curious at peoples reasons for wanting an EV and then depending on supercharging as the main source of power. Care to share what your decision making process was for deciding that owning an tesla with paid supercharging as the main source of "refueling"?

Oh, on thread topic, I have never seen any official statements from tesla about supercharging throttling and you will likely never get / find one. Even if they dont do it now there is no guarantee that they wont enable such a thing in the future. Thats what kind of car this is. Most of us love the updates, but they may not all be what every specific person wants.

So, if " i need to ensure that this car will never be supercharger throttled, and I will be using the supercharger as the main source of power" is your criteria for buying, you need to look elsewhere / at some other brand / other charging solution. You are not going to find any assurance of that.

 

[TimothyHW3]

I am always curious at peoples reasons for wanting an EV and then depending on supercharging as the main source of power. Care to share what your decision making process was for deciding that owning an tesla with paid supercharging as the main source of "refueling"?

Well, if we are going to transition to EVs, there must be an infrastructure in place for people without homes. I guess in the US most people relly on own plugs or supercharger and there is no infrastructure for slow charging in the cities which is a shame.

Oh, on thread topic, I have never seen any official statements from tesla about supercharging throttling and you will likely never get / find one. Even if they dont do it now there is no guarantee that they wont enable such a thing in the future. Thats what kind of car this is. Most of us love the updates, but they may not all be what every specific person wants.

There never was an official statement, not even on the S/X. I wouldn't exclude supercharger throttling in the future. From what I have seen, the throttling occurs in the high end, but the curve is relatively the same - meaning you will get high peaks in the beginning without throttling vs lower peaks, but more steady speeds. The difference is about 10 minutes on a full charge.

But back to the question - there are no official reports, but if you want ot be on the safe side - you should consider that it is given that Tesla will at some point limit the speed.

But unless you clock in 20,000 miles a year I wouldn't worry too much. The cut off point on Model S and X was about 15000kWh DC and I guess on a Model 3 would be a bit higher 20,000kWh. That is about 150,000 miles worth of supercharging, depending on speed and consumption and dependend on wether you can bring the vampire drain close to zero (i.e. don't use sentry a lot and don't preheat precool the car a lot)

 

[jpfive]

Hi all,

I was scheduled to pick up my Model 3 LR next week, but due to COVID-19 all stores were shut down. This gave me some time to do more research and eventually stumbled on an issue that started in 2017 where several Model S owners reported that Supercharging was throttled after x number of charges using the Supercharger.

For me, this may be a deal breaker because I do not have a home charging solution at the moment and will rely heavily on Superchargers as a main source of power. After combing through quite a number of threads (including the 115 page thread here on TMC), I still don't have a definitive answer. Battery degradation is a given... but throttling Superchargers would technically render the vehicle useless to me.

Question: Are Model 3s throttled after x number of supercharges? Is there any documentation from Tesla that details how this works?

OK. Here's a little different thought on this. Take it for what it's worth. The throttling issue reported back in 2107 was from a MS owner. I wonder if that's more related to Tesla discouraging SC use for local driving. The MS, after all, gets SC use gratis (i.e prepaid in the purchase price). The SC benefit, as I have seen it explained, is targeted more for travel than local use. M3 owners, OTOH, are paying customers when they hit SC stations, as will you be.

 

[jjrandorin]

Well, if we are going to transition to EVs, there must be an infrastructure in place for people without homes. I guess in the US most people relly on own plugs or supercharger and there is no infrastructure for slow charging in the cities which is a shame.


There never was an official statement, not even on the S/X. I wouldn't exclude supercharger throttling in the future. From what I have seen, the throttling occurs in the high end, but the curve is relatively the same - meaning you will get high peaks in the beginning without throttling vs lower peaks, but more steady speeds. The difference is about 10 minutes on a full charge.

But back to the question - there are no official reports, but if you want ot be on the safe side - you should consider that it is given that Tesla will at some point limit the speed.

But unless you clock in 20,000 miles a year I wouldn't worry too much. The cut off point on Model S and X was about 15000kWh DC and I guess on a Model 3 would be a bit higher 20,000kWh. That is about 150,000 miles worth of supercharging, depending on speed and consumption and dependend on wether you can bring the vampire drain close to zero (i.e. don't use sentry a lot and don't preheat precool the car a lot)

Someone without home charging likely doesnt have their own garage to park the car in, so its my opinion that those people will be the ones who want to run sentry mode pretty much all the time. They will also be the ones who are "surprised" that they have to charge the car every few days at a minimum. We already see people here make posts like " The real range on these cars is 50% of what they say they are!!!!!"

Their reasoning is, they drive around town mostly, and put 110 miles on the car in very short hop driving, and that takes all their battery range. They thought that because the car had 310-320 miles of range, they would only have to visit a supercharger every couple of weeks or so because it takes them 3 weeks to go 300 miles of driving. They find the reality is, in that situation its more like 120-130 miles, as they play stoplight hero, charge only to 90% (or less, if people here have convinced them they need to charge less than that), and will not use the bottom 20% of the battery on a regular basis.

I dont believe "we are going to transition to EVs" any time soon, if by "transition" you mean "ICE vehicles are no longer available to purchase". Maybe in Europe it will be sooner than the US, but its my opinion that there is no "one size fits all" for vehicles, and we will have ICE vehicles available for quite some time, at least in the US, and that there is no "one size fits all" for vehicles right now.

 

[Kamixus]

I wouldn’t put too much thought into this. The bigger problem is you won’t want o hit the SuperChargers as it’s annoying to sit there when you’ve got stuff to do.

What’s the hold up on getting a charger installed at home? Depending on your area it can be $200-1000 with or without permits/inspections. If you can’t charge at home, even a regular 120v house outlet... then maybe it’s not time for an EV just yet. I did a combo of 120v at home charging at 4-5mph of charge and then hitting the local SC for a couple months before we moved and it sucks. Getting a 240v installed makes a world of a difference (30-33mph charge).

Need more facts on your situation to help you but really, I don’t think you’ll see throttling if this is the vehicle you choose.

There are two reasons why I am buying this vehicle; 1. My current ICE vehicle is dying 2. I have a passion for technology and every other vehicle's technology feels antiquated when compared to the Tesla.

I live in a condo with a parking lot that's extremely secure so will not need to keep Sentry mode on. I am currently lobbying the condo board for permission to install my own personal charging solution, but I'm told it might be challenging because the garage was not built with EV charging in mind (around 8-9 years old). Even though I am hopeful that one day I will get the go ahead from the condo board, I'm not holding my breath that it's something that will be realized in the short term.

I also do not commute to work so I will do a majority of my driving on the weekends. This is roughly around 50-200 km/week depending on if I visit my family out of town. Factoring in the battery drain when stationary and not plugged in, I estimate that I will need a supercharging session every 1 to 2 weeks.

 

[Matsayz]

See that’s what we needed. Then yes, go forth and buy a Tesla. The battery drain is minimal these days if you turn off Sentry like you said. You’ll be fine even if you have to use the plug for the garage door opener. Enjoy!

 

[Rocky_H]

I live in a condo with a parking lot that's extremely secure so will not need to keep Sentry mode on. I am currently lobbying the condo board for permission to install my own personal charging solution, but I'm told it might be challenging because the garage was not built with EV charging in mind (around 8-9 years old).

I would put forth some more explaining and questions on this aspect. Many times, apartment and condo associations don't really understand what EV charging needs, and they have this idea that it requires big, expensive electrical upgrades. I thought your location said "New York", but caught that it's actually "North York". Is that like York, as in England? If so, then your normal electrical outlets are 230V, I think? So you wouldn't need much more than a regular outlet run, which might be a surprise to your condo board that it's simpler than they thought.

 

[Kamixus]

I would put forth some more explaining and questions on this aspect. Many times, apartment and condo associations don't really understand what EV charging needs, and they have this idea that it requires big, expensive electrical upgrades. I thought your location said "New York", but caught that it's actually "North York". Is that like York, as in England? If so, then your normal electrical outlets are 230V, I think? So you wouldn't need much more than a regular outlet run, which might be a surprise to your condo board that it's simpler than they thought.

North York, Canada (inspired by North Yorkshire, UK) haha. So pretty much the same as the States w/ 120v AC as the standard.

Based on what I've been told there are no outlets whatsoever in the garage, so I assume their concerns are around wiring + scalability if more tenants want to charge their EV. I did notice someone else with a Model 3 in the garage so maybe we could team up.

 

[vsansal]

There are two reasons why I am buying this vehicle; 1. My current ICE vehicle is dying 2. I have a passion for technology and every other vehicle's technology feels antiquated when compared to the Tesla.

I live in a condo with a parking lot that's extremely secure so will not need to keep Sentry mode on. I am currently lobbying the condo board for permission to install my own personal charging solution, but I'm told it might be challenging because the garage was not built with EV charging in mind (around 8-9 years old). Even though I am hopeful that one day I will get the go ahead from the condo board, I'm not holding my breath that it's something that will be realized in the short term.

I also do not commute to work so I will do a majority of my driving on the weekends. This is roughly around 50-200 km/week depending on if I visit my family out of town. Factoring in the battery drain when stationary and not plugged in, I estimate that I will need a supercharging session every 1 to 2 weeks.

I was in the same boat as you before I pulled the trigger 6 months ago. My current situation is exactly like yours. Live in a condo with a parking garage without charging options. The board is currently working on getting charging but not going to be immediate. They are planning to convert 1 or 2 parking spots to charging spots right now but thats to be seen. So after 6 months of ownership and 3500 miles on the car, I couldnt be happier. I dont use sentry mode so my car goes to sleep without issues. I usually lose 1-2% a week if I dont drive. It is very minimal. I do have access to free charging about a mile away from my house. One in a parking garage that is free after 4pm till 6am every day and free over the weekends, the other one is at a giant store parking lot. Also I started commuting to work once every other week and the parking garage I park has free charging. I do supercharge but very infrequently. I still have around 500 miles or so free supercharging left. So between these options, I was able to drive for free so far which is amazing. Look at options around where you live for free charging. I am sure you will also find something available.

 

[Uncle Paul]

In OP's case, even condo access to 120v might be helpful.

I was in a situation for a while where only Supercharging was availabe to me.

Did not find it that much inconvenience. i usually multi-tasked when charging. Got a bit to eat, checked some emails, walked around, used bathroom etc. All in all was pretty painless.

For many reasons, it was a much better option for me at the time than to go back to driving an ice (Ugh!)

OP could also check to see if there is a light in his garage. Could also tap into that wiring for slow charging.

 

[Matsayz]

Sooo if the OP has a garage door the is run by an electric motor then they could plug in there or buy a high quality power strip and plug both in there if the original outlet doesn’t have two spots.

 

[Uncle Paul]

Correct. Would be good to get permission of management first or be ready to ask for forgiveness later.

Not unusual for vehicle owners to tap into them as well for trickle chargers.

 

[Kamixus]

Sooo if the OP has a garage door the is run by an electric motor then they could plug in there or buy a high quality power strip and plug both in there if the original outlet doesn’t have two spots.

I think Uncle Paul provided a potentially viable recommendation. Based on my needs, a standard 120v socket is all I need for my charging needs. My parking spot is 3 floors underground, but I do know they have plenty of fluorescent light fixtures throughout the garage.

 

[jjrandorin]

Sooo if the OP has a garage door the is run by an electric motor then they could plug in there or buy a high quality power strip and plug both in there if the original outlet doesn’t have two spots.

The picture i am getting from OP is that it is a communal gated parking garage (similar to a parking structure) with assigned spots. Maybe I am reading it wrong, but thats what it sounds like to me. So, there wouldnt be one garage door for this OPs parking spot, it would be a gate that controls access to the garage, and various lighting fixtures to provide communal light.

In other words, 120v run from a light might work, but there would be no way for OP to either do it himself, or for it not to be noticed, so the condo board would still have to sign off on it.

Hopefully they at least let you get a price on what it would be to put a 120 outlet at your parking spot, even without high speed charging that would work fine in the use case you described (other than worrying about whether one of your neighbors or a visitor took your mobile connector).

 

[dabbler]

Hard to believe that there are no convenience outlets in an underground parking garage that has a lighting system Interesting building codes in North York.

 

[Kamixus]

The picture i am getting from OP is that it is a communal gated parking garage (similar to a parking structure) with assigned spots. Maybe I am reading it wrong, but thats what it sounds like to me. So, there wouldnt be one garage door for this OPs parking spot, it would be a gate that controls access to the garage, and various lighting fixtures to provide communal light.

In other words, 120v run from a light might work, but there would be no way for OP to either do it himself, or for it not to be noticed, so the condo board would still have to sign off on it.

Hopefully they at least let you get a price on what it would be to put a 120 outlet at your parking spot, even without high speed charging that would work fine in the use case you described (other than worrying about whether one of your neighbors or a visitor took your mobile connector).

You're right on the money. Sorry, first time describing my parking situation so not very good at communicating what it is lol.

 

[Darmie]

Model S/X has a different battery chemistry and size difference compared to the M3. I would be safe to say, the 3 may not see any throttling. I"m also amazed how quick they can charge on V3. 250kw is a lot of power going into those batteries relatively speaking though. I've always attempted to compare tesla charging to RC Lipo battery charging but it's way different. Supercharging plateau way to early where as constant current constant voltage charging lipo's doesn't until near 80 to 90pct. I would believe Tesla does a great job protecting their batteries. Even at 250kw, that's not even a 1c charge rate which is a normal safe LIPO charge rate.
I was very surprised even our 2018 X jumped up to 169 on the V3 charger, but soon you see the plateau.